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"If 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?" she asked in the article.
The pilot confirmed Mrs. Jacobsen's experience was "terribly alike" what flight attendants reported on the San Juan flight.
He said there is "widespread knowledge" among crew members these probes are taking place.
A Middle Eastern passenger attempted to videotape out the window as the plane taxied on takeoff and, when told by a flight attendant it was not permitted, "gave her a mean look and stopped taping," said a written report of the San Juan incident by a flight attendant.
The group of six men sat near one another, pretended to be strangers, but after careful observation from flight attendants, it was apparent "all six knew each other," the report said.
"They were very careful when we were in their area to seem separate and pretended to be sleeping, but when we were out of the twilight area, they were watching and communicating," the report said.
The men made several trips to the bathroom and congregated in that area, and were told at least twice by a flight attendant to return to their seats. The suspicious behavior was relayed to airline officials in midflight and additional background checks were conducted.
A second pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.
The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.
The second pilot said terrorists are "absolutely" testing security.
"There is a great degree of concern in the airline industry that not only are these dry runs for a terrorist attack, but that there is absolutely no defense capabilities on a vast majority of airlines," the second pilot said.
Dawn Deeks, spokeswoman for the Association of Flight Attendants, said there is no "central clearinghouse" for them to learn of suspicious incidents, and flight crews are not told how issues are resolved.
She said a flight attendant reported that a passenger was using a telephoto lens to take sequential photos of the cockpit door.
The passenger was stopped, and the incident, which happened two months ago, was reported to officials. But when the attendant checked back last week on the outcome, she was told her report had been lost.
Recent incidents at the Minneapolis-St. Paul international airport have also alarmed flight crews. Earlier this month, a passenger from Syria was taken into custody while carrying anti-American materials and a note suggesting he intended to commit a public suicide.
A third pilot reported watching a man of Middle Eastern descent at the same airport using binoculars to get airplane tail numbers and writing the numbers in a notebook to correspond with flight numbers.
"It's a probe. They are probing us," said a second air marshal, who confirmed that Middle Eastern men try to flush out marshals by rushing the cockpit and stopping suddenly.
If that little anecdote is even remotely accurate, why the hell wasn't it reported to the public? Don't give me any bureaucratic BS about "ongoing investigations" or "we don't want to spook the big fish," either. If a "man of Middle Eastern decent" was caught trying to break into an airline cockpit, we damn well ought to know about it before he's had a chance to try out the shiny new toilet in his maximum-security holding cell.
And if this is a matter of being politically correct and not 'profiling'... then the hell with you, Norm Minetta. Your personal squeamishness is not worth risking the lives of the people you're supposed to be protecting. That goes for you too, Tom Ridge.
UPDATE: In the comments, Jeff Harrell says,
I think there's an argument to be made that keeping thwarted terrorist attacks secret is a key aspect of our strategy in this war.
My reply: I can see where you're coming from, but I don't agree. Among other reasons, I'd be too afraid that people will get lulled into apathy again if reports about possible terrorist attempts get squelched. No attempts might mean they've given up, right?
Speaking as somebody who flies--a lot--I want the people around me to be part of a very alert pack ($1 to Instapundit). I'm not going to hope there's a sky marshall on board--I want my countrymen to be just as aware of the threat, and just as ready to deal with it as anybody with a government badge.
And damn it, if some freaking jihadi was really trying to break into a cockpit, I want to know about it! And I want all his buddies to know that he got the ever-loving crap kicked out of him by the infidels that caught his sorry ass.
And if this is a matter of being politically correct and not 'profiling'... then the hell with you, Norm Minetta. Your personal squeamishness is not worth risking the lives of the people you're supposed to be protecting. That goes for you too, Tom Ridge.
HGROKIT said:Unbelievable and a hats off and amen to Jeff Harrell's comments about kicking some ass!
I am sitting here scratching my head asking the same question. Why are these events NOT being openly discussed? Notice the Terror in the Sky deal last week, written by that gal for Womens Wall Street has already faded into the sunset.
My question is also, she came out with this story and got brief air time because she is a journalist. How many other stories are there that we just don't hear about?
Then I spoke with a producer from ABC. She explained that she could not get Dave Adams, Head of Public Affairs of the Federal Air Marshal Services (FAM), on the phone. So she asked me some of the questions that she had wanted to ask him: Where exactly did this band of 14 musicians play? What was the name of the band? Who booked the band and what kind of music did they play? Did anyone follow up and actually witness these 14 men performing at their desert casino gig? I had none of the answers, even though I had asked Adams these exact questions myself when we spoke last week. The ABC producer also asked me other questions which had crossed my mind after hanging up with Adams. Did I know anything about their return flight on JetBlue? Did the men go back to Syria? Did I believe FAM's story?
HGROKIT said:I am sitting here scratching my head asking the same question. Why are these events NOT being openly discussed? Notice the Terror in the Sky deal last week, written by that gal for Womens Wall Street has already faded into the sunset.
freeandfun1 said:I'm gonna sound like DK here..... :baby4:
But think about it for a second..... Do you really think the airlines want this info out? And the govumint has aweady pruven they are gonna give the airlines what they want (Mrs. Dashle?).
I am really serious about this one. I am SURE the government and the airlines are covering all this up and probably, honestly, for good reason.
NewGuy said:Can anyone give me understanding as to why this overwhelming perspective exists that our GOVERNMENT needs to protect us?
Why are we not looking to our CONSTITUTION to protect us?
I honestly do not understand the mentality and I am really trying to.
lilcountriegal said:I dunno if I agree with that. At least teh "good reason" part. I compltely understand the reasoning behind it, so as not to cause panic and save a potential economical loss in the airline industry. Speaking from someone who is scared to DEATH to fly (nervous pit in my stomach just thinking about it 12 days before)..... I would be a little more relieved to hear what the government is doing about this siutation, how they are following it up, etc. That way I know for sure they are 1) aware of the problem & 2) addressing it appropriately. Unfortunately, the only things I'm reading are these short blogs stating nothing... I know the government knows about it, but my impression is that they arent doing anything.
A federal marshall broke into the lavoratory when a Middle Eastern man was in there for too long a period and found that man with the mirror off the wall trying to break through the wall and get into the cockpit. I mean COME ON.. this should have been reported.
There's no excuse for this kind of information being kept from the public...
insein said:Because people have been brainwahsed for years into thinking the government is supposed to protect us. No one knows how to protect themselves anymore.
freeandfun1 said:Again, I understand your point, but believe me, the government is on it (nothing has happened right? Even with all these reports - somebody is doing their job!) and broadcasting this all over the news and such would only create a panic that this nation cannot afford economically. The economy is good, but it is also on a very weak foundation as it always will be - as long as their remains any kind of serious terrorist threat.
lilcountriegal said:That's the million dollar question. Are they? Nothing has happened, but it doesn't seem to be from lack of trying. There are these stories floating all over the internet, how many more are going completely unreported? My problem is, I dont believe the government is "on it". They have limited themselves to only allowing 2 Middle Eastern men to be searched per flight. When you have mass Middle Eastern men congregating in various airline bathrooms, what's the odds they pick the right 2? You live in Vegas, you know the odds arent good. They have air marshalls on "some" flights... from the description of activity on the "McDonalds bag" flight, they dont seem to be doing anything either. Imagine if the McDonalds bag held the last component of the bomb needing assembled...
No... nothing has happened yet. But I dont beleive thats because the government is ready to thwart a threat, its because the terrorists arent ready to carry it out yet.
lilcountriegal said:That's the million dollar question. Are they? Nothing has happened, but it doesnt seem to be from lack of trying. There are these stories floating all over the internet, how many more are going completely unreported? My problem is, I dont believe the government is "on it". They have limited themselves to only allowing 2 Middle Eastern men to be searched per flight. When you have mass Middle Eastern men congregating in various airline bathrooms, what's the odds they pick the right 2? You live in Vegas, you know the odds arent good. They have air marshalls on "some" flights... from the description of activity on the "McDonalds bag" flight, they dont seem to be doing anything either. Imagine if the McDonalds bag held the last component of the bomb needing assembled...
No... nothing has happened yet. But I dont beleive thats because the government is ready to thwart a threat, its because the terrorists arent ready to carry it out yet.
NewGuy said:Lemme throw this "what-if" out.
Scenario 1:
What if everyone on a plane was required to carry a gun.
What if the pilots were included.
What if the cockpit had no door.
What if a couple guys jump up and attempts to take hostages or hijack?
----------------------
Scenario 2:
What if nobody is allowed a gun.
What if the pilots are behined a locked door.
What if a couple guys jump up and triy to take hostages or hijack? (keep in mind the bad guys always have a weapon).
What if the government FORCES this scenario?
How many die?
-----------------------
Scenario 1 is the natural process created by our Constitution. -While the REQUIREMENT for carrying guns doesn't exist, the CAPACITY does.
Scenario 2 is what we have and the populace seem to keep asking for while ALLOWING the Constitution to be overtaken by corruption.
Why do we do this?
:cof:Hobbit said:Reminds me of the scene in Predator 2 where some thugs threaten a guy on the subway, the guy pulls a gun, the thugs pull a bigger gun, and then everyone on the subway pulls a gun.
Actually, let's forget the guns and go with something more intimidating. Under each seat will be placed one of three weapons: a flanged mace, a heavy flail, or a nail bat. Just imagine some big, southern boy charging at you with a flanged mace. That's enough to make one soil himself.
freeandfun1 said:the crews are on it and the other passengers seem to be alert (how else the stories?). We cannot expect the government to protect us every place we go. That is just fucking ridiculous.
I am sorry if you don't get it. I know you are an intelligent person, but you are totally ignoring the impact the stories like these would have if they were being reported every time they happen on the major networks. People like you would probably not go on vacation, businessmen and women wouldn't travel, etc. I am telling you, it would KILL our already fragile but positive economy.
Right now you are still planning on traveling right? Now, let me ask you this, if you saw Tom Brokaw, Rather, etc. on TV putting not only their spin but their "dramatic emphasis" on the stories, do you still think you would be willing to travel? I don't think you would. Words are words but when people put an image on those words, their body language, etc. sends messages that instill feelings based on however it is the broadcaster is presenting the story. As we know, the media loves to hype for ratings, so just think how scared you would be if you saw this story on the news instead of just reading about it?
That is my point.
lilcountriegal said:You're damn straight when I get on that flight, if still conscious. . . .
NewGuy said:Lemme throw this "what-if" out.
Scenario 1:
What if everyone on a plane was required to carry a gun.
What if the pilots were included.
What if the cockpit had no door.
What if a couple guys jump up and attempts to take hostages or hijack?
----------------------
Scenario 2:
What if nobody is allowed a gun.
What if the pilots are behined a locked door.
What if a couple guys jump up and triy to take hostages or hijack? (keep in mind the bad guys always have a weapon).
What if the government FORCES this scenario?
How many die?
-----------------------
Scenario 1 is the natural process created by our Constitution. -While the REQUIREMENT for carrying guns doesn't exist, the CAPACITY does.
Scenario 2 is what we have and the populace seem to keep asking for while ALLOWING the Constitution to be overtaken by corruption.
Why do we do this?
