Worker dies at Long Island Wal-Mart after being trampled in Black Friday stampede

[Anguille]

This is like saying women who wear mini dresses should expect to be raped.

Lame.

 

[dilloduck]

Who is victimizing the crowd?
The only victim in the crowd, apparently was a pregnant woman.
There is a difference in being labeled a victim and not being held responsible for being pushed by a crowd of people over a dying man who you cannot reach and if you could would mean you'd be trampled to death too.

Do you think every single person in that crowd had a choice whether to move forward or not?

Sure, keep defending Walmart. Walmart is the real victim here isn't it? That bad employee should have just got out of the way but instead he ruined the big sale!

Why does blame need to be assigned.Apparently YOU think the crowd was victimized--lured into sub human behavior by an advertisement. I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out the absurdity of trying to pin an accident on a company.
Sorry--I don't think you find the "golden ticket" everytime you bust your ass on someone else's slippery floor.
This is a personal injury lawyer's wet dream and perpetuates the myth that if something bad happens to you, it's not your fault and you should even get a reward for it.

 

[Anguille]

Why does blame need to be assigned.Apparently YOU think the crowd was victimized--lured into sub human behavior by an advertisement. I'm not defending anyone. Just pointing out the absurdity of trying to pin an accident on a company.
Sorry--I don't think you find the "golden ticket" everytime you bust your ass on someone else's slippery floor.
This is a personal injury lawyer's wet dream and perpetuates the myth that if something bad happens to you, it's not your fault and you should even get a reward for it.

Only you seem to think I think the crowd was victimized. Which makes you a victim of your own simplistic reasoning. The crowd was made up of individuals who all have varying degrees of responsibility for what happened depending on their behavior.

In order for anyone to collect damages against Walmart, Gross negligence must be proven. It looks like there is a case for that.

Quit your whining, there will be no reward for you for crying Walmart is a victim.

 

[dilloduck]

Only you seem to think I think the crowd was victimized. Which makes you a victim of your own simplistic reasoning. The crowd was made up of individuals who all have varying degrees of responsibility for what happened depending on their behavior.

In order for anyone to collect damages against Walmart, Gross negligence must be proven. It looks like there is a case for that.

Quit your whining, there will be no reward for you for crying Walmart is a victim.

Holy Shit , eel woman--can't you read ?? I said I'm not blaming, defending, or assigning victim status to ANYONE.
A crowd went crazy and killed a man. He will continue to be dead and whatever settlements and adjustments that come after the fact won't change that.
And you know what? Tomorrow someone will have another accident and the next day and the next day etc. They will all be different. Some lawyers will get rich, the price to the consumer will go up and the dead person will still be dead. YAY America.
There is NO such thing a absolute security.

 

[Lycurgus]

I'm sorry but I really don't see where anyone is trying to project Walmart as a victim. Stating that we as humans, as individuals should first be accountable for our own actions and second, behave civilized, is not unreasonable, nor is it projecting Walmart as a victim. I think there is enough blame to go around and unfortunately this time next year, I'll bet this same topic will be debated again!

 

[Anguille]

Holy Shit , eel woman--can't you read ?? I said I'm not blaming, defending, or assigning victim status to ANYONE.
A crowd went crazy and killed a man. He will continue to be dead and whatever settlements and adjustments that come after the fact won't change that.
And you know what? Tomorrow someone will have another accident and the next day and the next day etc. They will all be different. Some lawyers will get rich, the price to the consumer will go up and the dead person will still be dead. YAY America.
There is NO such thing a absolute security.

Okay, it was all God's will.

Happy now? Ya Walmart apologist!

 

[dilloduck]

I'm sorry but I really don't see where anyone is trying to project Walmart as a victim. Stating the we as humans, as individuals should first be accountable for our own actions and second, behave civilized, is not unreasonable, nor is it projecting Walmart as a victim. I think there is enough blame to go around and unfortunately this time next year, I'll bet this same topic will be debated again!

Actually the subject is discussed daily around here---Who is responsible for ________ ? The amount of responsibilty we place on others is phenomenal and our attempts to feel happy and safe go beyond the realm of sanity.

Trust me---someone WILL be harmed some how and people WILL bitch about Who should have done WHAT about it.

 

[Anguille]

Actually the subject is discussed daily around here---Who is responsible for ________ ? The amount of responsibilty we place on others is phenomenal and our attempts to feel happy and safe go beyond the realm of sanity.

Trust me---someone WILL be harmed some how and people WILL bitch about Who should have done WHAT about it.

If I do trust you on that, Mallard man, and it doesn't happen I will hold you responsible !!!!

 

[Lycurgus]

Actually the subject is discussed daily around here---Who is responsible for ________ ? The amount of responsibilty we place on others is phenomenal and our attempts to feel happy and safe go beyond the realm of sanity.

Trust me---someone WILL be harmed some how and people WILL bitch about Who should have done WHAT about it.

I understand. I was speaking specifically about holiday shoppers.

 

[Ravi]

Bullshit-----the were acting like greedy bastards, more than willing to selfishly stomp someone to death to pay less for a fucking TV.

Yep, and Walmart was acting like a greedy bastard willing to endanger people to make a buck.

 

[Ravi]

Bullshit--businesses can't be expected to predict mob behavior and therefore plan for it. Is every business that serves the public now going to have to train and hire riot control teams ? And if someone allegic to pepper spray has a fatal asthma attack ?

Sure they can dillo, crowd control isn't hard and mob behavior is well known. Dangle meat at some mad dogs and don't expect anyone to believe you didn't predict the carnage.

 

[Ravi]

and yet if there WAS a stampede at a football game it would happen so fast the security people couldn't do shit to stop it and someone would bitch that there "SHOULD HAVE BEEN _______" in place too. Shit happens. We are guranteed to lose every right we have if someone is responsible for predicting human behavior.

lol, the right to buy cheap shit from Walmart?

 

[editec]

Holy Shit , eel woman--can't you read ?? I said I'm not blaming, defending, or assigning victim status to ANYONE.

Well...maybe you should.

Does a major corporation that has had a history of mob shopping frenzy every year for years, and which has a hsitory of people getting hurt in this Black Friday madness have ANY RESPONSIBILITY for crowd control?

I think they do. I think the courts will agree with me, too.

A crowd went crazy and killed a man. He will continue to be dead and whatever settlements and adjustments that come after the fact won't change that.

No but they will encetnivize WALMART to change the environment such that such events don't happen in the future.

And you know what? Tomorrow someone will have another accident and the next day and the next day etc. They will all be different.

Yesh, but this accident was NOT different. This accident had happened over and over again and WALMARTS did NOTHING to prevent it.

Some lawyers will get rich, the price to the consumer will go up and the dead person will still be dead. YAY America.
There is NO such thing a absolute security.

No expects "absolute security".

All we expect is that people take due diligence in cases where they have every reason to know they're creating unsafe conditions.

WLAMART did not take due diligence, and as a result of that, a man is dead.

 

[Lycurgus]

Well...maybe you should.

Does a major corporation that has had a history of mob shopping frenzy every year for years, and which has a hsitory of people getting hurt in this Black Friday madness have ANY RESPONSIBILITY for crowd control?

I think they do. I think the courts will agree with me, too.





No but they will encetnivize WALMART to change the environment such that such events don't happen in the future.





Yesh, but this accident was NOT different. This accident had happened over and over again and WALMARTS did NOTHING to prevent it.




No expects "absolute security".

All we expect is that people take due diligence in cases where they have every reason to know they're creating unsafe conditions.

WLAMART did not take due diligence, and as a result of that, a man is dead.

Hmmm ............... I agree that Walmart should take steps at their stores for crowd management. However, I do not see this as an accident or as being their fault. Do they hold some responsibility, yes, they do and I think you explained that well. Further, this man died because of deliberat actions of other shoppers, period. IMO, we can paint and repaint the picture as many times as we wish, but, that fact remains.

I have been involved with using national celebrities for promotional gigs. Even after doing it for many years and taking many steps for crowd management I have learned this, if the crowd turns unruly people get hurt, they will hurdle management rails, kick ropes over and so on. Further, a handful of security personal can only do so much.

My personal conclusion, should Walmart have taken extra steps? Yes. Who is to blame directly for the death? The people who were unruly. Will Walmart be sued and have to pay? Yes. The simple fact is, those harmed in any fashion will go after the deepest pockets and no doubt, at least I hope this will inspire Walmart and other retailers to take steps to help ease the situations.

We as a society hold the blame. We have no common respect for each other, we are selfish, rude and place monetary objects above common decency and common sense. It is a sad reflection on us as humans, not Walmart as a business.

 

[Ravi]

I have been involved with using national celebrities for promotional gigs. Even after doing it for many years and taking many steps for crowd management I have learned this, if the crowd turns unruly people get hurt, they will hurdle management rails, kick ropes over and so on. Further, a handful of security personal can only do so much.

In those cases, and you can usually judge by the celebrity in question as to how unruly the crowd might be, you hire lots of cops with lots of guns and things usually go just fine.

We as a society hold the blame. We have no common respect for each other, we are selfish, rude and place monetary objects above common decency and common sense. It is a sad reflection on us as humans, not Walmart as a business.

There is no sense in pretending that people don't act like animals in crowd situations and it is a reflection on Walmart as a business that they didn't make every effort to keep people safe on their premises.

 

[dilloduck]

In those cases, and you can usually judge by the celebrity in question as to how unruly the crowd might be, you hire lots of cops with lots of guns and things usually go just fine.



There is no sense in pretending that people don't act like animals in crowd situations and it is a reflection on Walmart as a business that they didn't make every effort to keep people safe on their premises.

Great--put me out in front of a Walmart next year--armed with a lot of ammo.

 

[Lycurgus]

In those cases, and you can usually judge by the celebrity in question as to how unruly the crowd might be, you hire lots of cops with lots of guns and things usually go just fine.



There is no sense in pretending that people don't act like animals in crowd situations and it is a reflection on Walmart as a business that they didn't make every effort to keep people safe on their premises.

I didn't disagree that Walmart didn't do all that they could have.

As for guessing at the crowd based on who you have appear or what the event might be, yes, that is true to a point. Further, we use the sheriffs department, they are armed and trust me, this still could have happened. A armed special duty cop is not going to discharge a live round into a crowd like that. You could discuss "what if" till we are blue in the face, my point is, you can only do so much and the root of the problem is with us, period and until we decide to change that, things like this will take place no matter what.

IMO, we as a society do not take enough personal responsibility for our own actions and that leads to things exactly like this. Clearly this is merely my opinion and I make no claim that it is correct or a solution!

 

[Paulie]

I don't have a problem with police being stationed there for that one day, if Walmart is paying the police department for the service, and it stays a private market transaction. As long as the government isn't involving themselves and mandating police presence, it's fine with me.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't have a problem with police being stationed there for that one day, if Walmart is paying the police department for the service, and it stays a private market transaction. As long as the government isn't involving themselves and mandating police presence, it's fine with me.

cool---businesses can hire private armies to protect store patrons ( they could look for shop lifters too ).
I think just banning big sales outta do the trick.

 

[editec]

Something so simply as putting up barriers to keep people in line, and to slow down the rush to the doors would have prevented this disaster.

WALMART failed to take the minimum steps necessary to prevent this tragedy.

They knew from past history that mobs form around their doors on Black Friday, and that people in the back push to that door, thus getting the crowd moving in a way which once started, cannot stop.

This is typical crowd behavior, so it isn't like this tragedy should be a surprise to anyone.