Words are cheap, Jane Fonda

[Sallow]

This thread is not about John Kerry. It is not about William Calley either. This is about Jane Fonda and her actions. Whether or not those actions legally constituted treason against the United States, one thing I do know: on the Wall are the names of 58,264 of my brothers, and 8 of my sisters who died. At least some of those names are there, as a direct result of Jane Fonda's aid to and encouragement of the NVA and the VC. How many? We can never know, but even if it is only one, that is one too many! We have the freedom to protest, it is true, but the use (or abuse) of that freedom has consequences. In this case that includes the loss of the the lives of young Americans serving this nation. Those names are not statistics, or abstractions; every single on of them belongs to an American, one of us; complete with hopes, dreams, feelings, a family, and a future that will never be. Some consequences!

So, when you brand the soldier with the mark of Cain, when you talk about the blood on his hands and the stains on his soul, I suggest you remember that the hands and souls of some who never fired a shot, or faced one, are not so squeaky clean either; and yes, Janie dear, it will take a lot more than soap, to wash away what's dripping from yours!

This is something symptomatic of you and your fascist friends. Like Lee Atwater you guys take something like expressing freedom of speech..and conflate into treason.

And you do things like marginalize real treason..like Ronald Reagan making a deal with the Iranian government, before he had any authority to do so..or funding the nun raping Contras in violation of legislation by Congress...as "No big deal".

And you guys hold up pissant liars like John O'Neill as some kind of clariion of truth telling.

Fucking disgusting.

 

[Sallow]

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

LBJ made a fortune. Take your hate out on Democrats. Call all the Dems vile and horrid because they were.And they are making a fortune again propogating all the new wars.

Hello Libya????????

I was a kid in those days. Who did I protest? Dems. The most disgusting pieces of shit on the planet. President JOHNSON D YES D made a killing off of 58,000 plus AMERICAN LIVES

Chicago didn't happen for nothing man.

I've always held contempt for LBJ for his role in Vietnam. Any list of America's worst presidents..I put LBJ in..exclusively for that reason.

That's not something you guys ever do.

Admit fault.

Nixon presided over as much..or more death and destruction as LBJ.

And lied about many things. Like the secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos.

I never ever see any right wing threads about that.

Or Eisenhower stopping the general elections.

Nothing.

 

[tinydancer]

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

LBJ made a fortune. Take your hate out on Democrats. Call all the Dems vile and horrid because they were.And they are making a fortune again propogating all the new wars.

Hello Libya????????

I was a kid in those days. Who did I protest? Dems. The most disgusting pieces of shit on the planet. President JOHNSON D YES D made a killing off of 58,000 plus AMERICAN LIVES

Chicago didn't happen for nothing man.

I've always held contempt for LBJ for his role in Vietnam. Any list of America's worst presidents..I put LBJ in..exclusively for that reason.

That's not something you guys ever do.

Admit fault.

Nixon presided over as much..or more death and destruction as LBJ.

And lied about many things. Like the secret bombings of Cambodia and Laos.

I never ever see any right wing threads about that.

Or Eisenhower stopping the general elections.

Nothing.

YOU GUYS? Sallow I talk it like it is. And what it was. When JFK was trying to keep a lid on it, he was to be admired. And yes, we had the cold war going on at the time and we were all trying to fight back against communist aggression.

Let's be real here. I don't want to play 20 20 hindsight here. That's insane.

But let's look at the players we are talking about. Hayden and Fonda were pro communist crazy left wing american hating pieces of shit. so were ayers and bernie.

I lived those days. these facts are not under dispute my man.

The war is really not the point in question here. It is the reaction to it. Where is Fonda today against action in Libya. Jodi? How many can I name?

Silence on Libya.....

Crickets.....


Hypomothertruckencrites.....

 

[tinydancer]

Re: Nixon upping the offensive. He had NO choice after the Tet offensive. None. He came into office and he had to flex to save those who were left.

Who were the aggresors? Let's get this right. TheCommunist North was invading the South. Can anyone spell R E A L I T Y here?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Reagan, by the lame stream far right's reasoning, committed treason over Iran-Contra.

 

[The Gadfly]

Democrats? That's arguable. Eisenhower stopped a general election that would have seen a victory for Ho Chi Mihn.

And it doesn't matter "why' they took the Khmer Rouge out..they took them out. And Nixon ended the war after expanding it and killing over a million Vietnamese.

And he didn't end it because he wanted to, he ended it because of massive protests.

Vietnam has pretty much done right by it's people..it's got a vibrant and fast growing economy. Surprisingly enough..it didn't hold any malice against America either..for what was..a crime and a genocide.

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

When you defend a tyrannical communist government , I take that to mean you consider them your "pals".

Second, I find it ironic that the Left always brings up Calley; you practically have made him the poster boy for all American soldiers in Vietnam. Thanks to him, all of us have been labeled murderers and baby killers. Well, Calley WAS a failure and a disgrace, and yes, I'll throw in war criminal as well, because what he and his men did is definitely a war crime. Everybody remembers Calley. However, there WERE Americans at My Lai that day who did not commit atrocities, or stand there and do nothing while others committed mass murder. I never hear Hugh Thompson mentioned, and yet, he ought to be remembered by you, and everyone else, for what he did. I want to know if you or anyone else here remembers WO1 Thompson, because he represents the other side of the story of My Lai,and while we are telling the truth, we ought to tell ALL of it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

SNIP: absolutely nothing .

The Gadfly is a Far Righty Extremist Fascist and is best treated that way. Nuff said.

 

[Sallow]

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

When you defend a tyrannical communist government , I take that to mean you consider them your "pals".

Second, I find it ironic that the Left always brings up Calley; you practically have made him the poster boy for all American soldiers in Vietnam. Thanks to him, all of us have been labeled murderers and baby killers. Well, Calley WAS a failure and a disgrace, and yes, I'll throw in war criminal as well, because what he and his men did is definitely a war crime. Everybody remembers Calley. However, there WERE Americans at My Lai that day who did not commit atrocities, or stand there and do nothing while others committed mass murder. I never hear Hugh Thompson mentioned, and yet, he ought to be remembered by you, and everyone else, for what he did. I want to know if you or anyone else here remembers WO1 Thompson, because he represents the other side of the story of My Lai,and while we are telling the truth, we ought to tell ALL of it.

I defend the people of most any country coming up with popular self rule. That's what Vietnam was doing. That's what they've been trying to do for almost 1,000 years.

They wanted an election. They earned it. They helped fight the Japanese during WWII. They didn't get it. What they got was invasion.

That something you want to defend?

Cheers.

 

[Sallow]

Reagan, by the lame stream far right's reasoning, committed treason over Iran-Contra.

Not only their reasoning. Any reasoning.

Fucking Democrats were to spineless to impeach.

 

[tinydancer]

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

When you defend a tyrannical communist government , I take that to mean you consider them your "pals".

Second, I find it ironic that the Left always brings up Calley; you practically have made him the poster boy for all American soldiers in Vietnam. Thanks to him, all of us have been labeled murderers and baby killers. Well, Calley WAS a failure and a disgrace, and yes, I'll throw in war criminal as well, because what he and his men did is definitely a war crime. Everybody remembers Calley. However, there WERE Americans at My Lai that day who did not commit atrocities, or stand there and do nothing while others committed mass murder. I never hear Hugh Thompson mentioned, and yet, he ought to be remembered by you, and everyone else, for what he did. I want to know if you or anyone else here remembers WO1 Thompson, because he represents the other side of the story of My Lai,and while we are telling the truth, we ought to tell ALL of it.

I defend the people of most any country coming up with popular self rule. That's what Vietnam was doing. That's what they've been trying to do for almost 1,000 years.

They wanted an election. They earned it. They helped fight the Japanese during WWII. They didn't get it. What they got was invasion.

That something you want to defend?

Cheers.

Are you really trying to defend the Communist North and their invasion of the south as a Democratic action?

Let's get real here. Ho was the aggressor. Ho invaded the south. Of this there is no doubt.

Why are we trying to spin this? Commie North vs sort of democratic south. Oh and btw, lets talk about all of this?

Part of the invasion of the south was based on the "whoopsies" we killed all the farmers in North Vietnam and we need the rice paddies in the south because we fucked up as commies always do.

The Cong offed all the farmers. Did you know that? I did. They blamed the farmers for a famine.

oh looky, global warming viet cong blaming the farmers for not forseeing a drought and a famine.

Lefties never change do they?

 

[The Gadfly]

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

When you defend a tyrannical communist government , I take that to mean you consider them your "pals".

Second, I find it ironic that the Left always brings up Calley; you practically have made him the poster boy for all American soldiers in Vietnam. Thanks to him, all of us have been labeled murderers and baby killers. Well, Calley WAS a failure and a disgrace, and yes, I'll throw in war criminal as well, because what he and his men did is definitely a war crime. Everybody remembers Calley. However, there WERE Americans at My Lai that day who did not commit atrocities, or stand there and do nothing while others committed mass murder. I never hear Hugh Thompson mentioned, and yet, he ought to be remembered by you, and everyone else, for what he did. I want to know if you or anyone else here remembers WO1 Thompson, because he represents the other side of the story of My Lai,and while we are telling the truth, we ought to tell ALL of it.

I defend the people of most any country coming up with popular self rule. That's what Vietnam was doing. That's what they've been trying to do for almost 1,000 years.

They wanted an election. They earned it. They helped fight the Japanese during WWII. They didn't get it. What they got was invasion.

That something you want to defend?

Cheers.

Bullshit! Ho got his country, the DRV. Then, the communist egomaniacal dictator decided he wanted it all, so he INVADED the RVN (South Vietnam). Indigenous freedom fighters, my arse! Most of the VC were NORTH VIETNAMESE soldiers, infiltrated into the south, a fact most of them readily admitted. They recruited there by terror and intimidation, the murdering, torturing, sacks of shit! Thank you, but I'll save my tears for the innocent people of South Vietnam, who we tried to protect from communist terror; real "freedom fighters" don't brutalize their own people (which even Jake admits they did!).

I see you don't want to discuss Hugh Thompson. No wonder, the idea that even in the carnage of My Lai, an American remembered what an American soldier is supposed to be doesn't fit with your theory that we were all mass murderers. For those who want to know:

WO1 Hugh Thompson was flying low-level recon in an OH-23 Raven Helicopter at the group of hamlets (including My Lai) collectively code-named "Pinkville" on the morning of 16 March, 1968. With him were crew chief SPC Glen Andreotta, and door gunner SPC Larry Colburn. The chopper was not receiving enemy fire, but Thompson spotted two suspected VC (males of military age, which is what we normally looked for). He and his crew secured these, and flew them back to base for interrogation.They also spotted a group of wounded Vietnamese, which they marked with a green smoke canister (indicating they needed help).Upon returning to the vicinity around 0900 hours, Thompson and his crew noticed that the Vietnamese they had marked were now dead. Hovering low, they saw a wounded Vietnamese female, then saw an American captain (later identified as Medina) walk up and shoot her dead. ( CPT Medina later claimed he thought she had a grenade). They also noticed a large number of bodies, many apparently women and children. (That would indicate something was wrong; a fight that big would have normally been accompanied by enemy fire at the helicopter, and armed VC scurrying around; there was no evidence of either). Thompson then radioed the accompanying UH-1 gunships escorting him that something wasn't right and that "There looks like a whole lot of unnecessary killing going own down there". (This was anything but routine, which indicates that Thompson recognized there was NOTHING "Normal" about what was going on). Seeing a number of dead and wounded Vietnamese in a ditch, with American troops nearby (Calley's platoon), Thompson landed, dismounted, and confronted SGT Mitchell, and subsequently, LT Calley, asking what could be done to help the Vietnamese in the ditch. As Thompson recalled, Mitchell said something to the effect that all that could be done was put them out of their misery. He asked Calley what was going on, only to be basically told it was "none of your business", and "I've got my orders...". He pointed out to Calley that "These are....unarmed civilians, sir.". Calley told him to get back in the helicopter. As they flew off, Andreotta reported that Mitchell was shooting the people in the ditch. Thompson noticed another group of Vietnamese running for the cover of a bunker, pursued by American troops (2nd Platoon). Thompson landed the chopper between the Americans and the Vietnamese, tellling his crew to train their guns on the American troops, and "If those bastards open up on me or these people, you open up on them! Promise me!" He then approached LT Brooks, asking for help getting the Vietnamese out of the bunker; Brooks offered to "help get them out with a hand grenade." Thompson told Brooks "I can do better" and eventually coaxed the Vietnamese out of the bunker, then called for the two Hueys to land and fly them to safety. Thompson stayed with the Vietnamese until they were evacuated. While en route to base, Thompson and his crew noticed around a hundred Vietnamese dead or dying in another irrigation ditch. They landed, got out and went through the ditch, finding a blood-soaked but apparently unhurt Vietnamese child, who they loaded on the OH-23 and flew to the ARVN hospital at Quang Ngai. Upon returning to base, Thompson, furious at what he had seen reported the entire incident to his commanding officer. Shorty after, the word reached the commander of the task force, LTC Barker, and the killing finally stopped.

They gave Hugh Thompson the DFC; the citation was a fabricated lie, and Thompson trashed it. He later testified in the investigations that followed, including congressional hearings. His reward was hate mail, death threats, and a public upbraiding from the head of the House Armed Services Committee, who said he was the only American at My Lai who ought to be court martialed, for training his guns on American troops, and tried (unsuccessfully) to have it done. It took thirty years for the decency and heroism of Hugh Thompson and his crew to be recognized, but finally, they all received the Soldier's Medal, the Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct combat with the enemy. Glen Andreotta got his posthumously (he was killed in action, 8 April, 1968). I would think those men would be just as much heroes to you, as they are to me, if not even more so; but then again, that might mess with the comfortable little stereotype, or maybe, infamy is easier to remember than honor. Either way, it's a damn shame, because whether you believe it or not, there were a hell of a lot more Hugh Thompsons, Glen Andreottas, and Larry Colburns in Vietnam, than there were Calleys and Medinas; even if most of them didn't have to go nearly as far to prove it, as those three did. The villains live in infamy, the heroes are forgotten, honor's cast aside, the American soldier of Vietnam is still a drug-besotted, murdering, war criminal and slacker, and the beat goes on, and on, and on.....

 

[Lovebears65]

Vietnam was a war crime..and a Genocide.

What Fonda did should have made her a hero.

I don't know how any American can get behind the slaughter that was Vietnam. Millions of innocent people were killed as a result of America's invasion. Fonda's only problem was that she didn't see that the troops were as trapped into this bullshit as the Vietnamese.

But why condem the people who went to fight, Its not like they had a choice and she did calling them murderers and such.. You dont have to support the war but at least support the troops NO MATTER what the war is. Because they have no choice where and when they go

 

[tinydancer]

The people who defend the likes of Fonda, Hayden, Ayers and Dorhn defy any logic I can apply to their defense that they give these people.

All of the above are not only anti American, they are pro communist. I can argue this forever. Because I tell the truth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The lame stream far right agenda-driven hoss and hosses here have never read the Pentagon Papers.

Listen up, morons, America was defending corporate profit structures in Vietnam 90%, democracy 10%.

We lost because the SVN leadership was as corrupt as the Tea Party and Righty Extremist Fascists in America today. You morons lost this battle in the 1970s and you will lose it the twenty teens. History will rub you out.

 

[José]

Originally posted by The Gadfly
When you defend a tyrannical communist government , I take that to mean you consider them your "pals".

Ssheeesh... you guys are dense or what? We might as well be debating Vietnam with a piece of wood, Jake/Sallow...

Small, babbling children of the USMB... Pay attention to Uncle Joe now!!

Nobody here is defending comunism...

Everybody who believes in the modern secular, democratic state created by the founders of America (IN THEORY, NOT IN PRACTICE!!) would love to see the most legitimate vietnamese national heroes like Ho and Giap spousing the same ideals and turning a united Vietnam into an open, democratic society.

The only thing we are saying is the obvious:

We are not Vietnamese!!

Our parents and grandparents were not Vietnamese!!

Therefore, it's not for us nor anybody to choose who should be the national heroes of Vietnam, their political leaders or decide the historical course followed by that asian nation!!

José, Sallow, Jake, Gadfly, France and America had no right to have a say in the matter. This was the absolute prerogative of the people of Vietnam!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by tinydancer
Are you really trying to defend the Communist North and their invasion of the south as a Democratic action?

No, tinybrain!!

What Sallow is trying (but failing miserably) to do is put into your skulls the fact that the entire war was the direct result of France and America's disastrous decision to deny the vietnamese people the right to self-determination.

The same right to self determination the people of Vietnam fully respected, when, 200 years ago, the american people decided to create a racist, sexist and classist dictatorship in North America under the command of General George Washington!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by The Gadfly
Bullshit! Ho got his country, the DRV. Then, the communist egomaniacal dictator decided he wanted it all, so he INVADED the RVN (South Vietnam).

Yeah right!!

The very same people who, if allowed by France, America and their puppet state in the South, would vote massively for Ho Chi Minh in 1955-1960, suddenly and mysteriously, changed allegiances and started hating their greatest independence hero in less than 2 years.

The lengths people will go to delegitimise a grassroots national independence movement never ceases to amaze me.

 

[The Gadfly]

Calley might have been the worst culprit, but not the only one; IMO, some other officers were guilty of dereliction of duty, or worse. The whole thing still reeks, and was definitely NOT "normal"; not in my experience. Hugh Thompson said years later he could never forgive the men of that company for what they did that day. I can't either. There is no way you can justify something like that, no way at all.

Democrats? That's arguable. Eisenhower stopped a general election that would have seen a victory for Ho Chi Mihn.

And it doesn't matter "why' they took the Khmer Rouge out..they took them out. And Nixon ended the war after expanding it and killing over a million Vietnamese.

And he didn't end it because he wanted to, he ended it because of massive protests.

Vietnam has pretty much done right by it's people..it's got a vibrant and fast growing economy. Surprisingly enough..it didn't hold any malice against America either..for what was..a crime and a genocide.

Really, Sallow? 65,000 executions in the "re-education camps"? How about the "boat people"- did your commie pals do right by them? How about the Dega ("Montagnards", to you)? How are THEY being treated by the regime, these days? Do you even care? And to think some of you call ME a "baby killer"! What's ironic, is that some of us American soldiers who supposedly "did nothing but commit war crimes" in Vietnam, had and have more compassion for the Vietnamese people (the innocent civilians) than you liberals have ever had!

By the way, while we are setting the record straight, most of us consider Lt. Calley a sorry disgrace, to the army, to the officer corps, and to America. The record shows that Calley was at best a marginal officer, lacking the requisite qualities of leadership, incompetent, negligent, and unable or unwilling to maintain discipline in his unit; in essence a failure, who under better circumstances would have been weeded out at OCS, and should never have been given command of an infantry platoon. I knew a few of his species in Vietnam, and they were universally despised, though fortunately, most of them never did anything remotely like what Calley did. So far as this former officer is concerned, Calley is NOT a hero, NOT a victim, NOT a martyr, and NOT a scapegoat; just a simple, miserable, wretched failure.

I have no commie pals, asshole. And if you were so fucking worried about "executions" and the other messes left by a war crime..then maybe you should have supported the elections taking place in the first place.

Or are you really so fucking stupid that you think that the aftermath of a 15 year was going to be pretty. Eh?

And Calley wasn't a "failure" he was a war criminal. Like the many war criminals that commanded him. They massacred a village and gang raped children. THATS what really happened. Marginalizing it, is DISGUSTING. And this event was NOT unique.

Asshole.

Next time, try reading what I post, instead of just the parts you want to attack. Does what I posted a couple of pages back (quoted above for your convenience) sound like "MARGINALIZING" what happened at My Lai? What's the matter; I didn't use quite the ideologically correct words to describe Calley, since I did not specifically say "WAR CRIMINAL"? Oh, do excuse me for being so terribly insensitive....

 

[José]

Originally posted by The Gadfly
Indigenous freedom fighters, my arse! Most of the VC were NORTH VIETNAMESE soldiers, infiltrated into the south, a fact most of them readily admitted.

Of course, some of them "came" from North Vietnam, genius!!

After France created the totally illegitimate state of South Vietnam many south vietnamese went into exile in the north.

Many of the Vietcong's core members were "regroupees," southern Vietminh who had resettled in the North after the Geneva Accord (1954).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viet_Cong

 

[Dr Grump]

She was just your better known anti American pro communist at the time. She believed in violence and winning a war. Hanoi Jane was just cheering on a different side called the Viet Cong.

She was no peacenik. Jane believed in communist takeovers of countries.

I guess you could call her a super patriotic North Vietnamese clown.

You don't have a clue do you TD...or are you a troll?

I guess you missed the well known quote I put up of Hanoi Jane. The one where she says we should all fall to our knees and pray that one day we can all be communists?

1970. Speaking to students at the University of Michigan.

So you grab a quote from 41 years ago and run with it? How old are you?