With current economic situation today...

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Bass v 2.0, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. Bass v 2.0
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    Bass v 2.0 Biblical Warrior For God.

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    It would be a great time for America to incorporate some socialist principles to offset the effects of capitalist greed in our country. Having travelled to a few European countries which fuse socialist principles with capitalism, The Bass can say 100% for sure that this will work. The ultra-capitalist speculators on the oil market are making millions from the American people, why not just let the government take control of oil? That way no one stands to profit personally from this.
     
  2. Bass v 2.0
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    Bass v 2.0 Biblical Warrior For God.

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    for example, look at the evils of capitalism:

    EVILS OF CAPITALISM

    Big business can be as dangerous a threat as big government


    09:03 AM CDT on Sunday, July 8, 2007
    By ROD DREHER / The Dallas Morning News

    What's the greatest challenge facing American conservatives today? Liberalism? Don't I wish. That would be relatively easy to defeat. No, it's capitalism.

    You read that right. Conservatives have to come to terms with the fact that capitalism, in its current form, undermines not only the virtues necessary to the kind of society conservatives claim to want, but ultimately risks subverting itself.

    Capitalism is an ingenious system for increasing material prosperity. It succeeded historically because the free market is the most rational device for meeting human wants and needs. It also thrived because it rewarded creativity and industriousness, and encouraged both qualities. And the most prosperous people under capitalism tended to be those who understood the value of self-denial and delayed gratification.

    Today, however, capitalism is defined not by a producer mentality but by a consumer ethos. The prosperity we see is in some respects a mirage, purchased with a credit card. According to U.S. government statistics, the personal savings rate recently dipped into negative territory for the first time since 1933. Consumers are buying more and more stuff we can't afford. When bills come due, the whole pyramid scheme stands to collapse.

    Our consumerist economy depends on people's inability to discipline their consumption. The best consumer sees no reason why he shouldn't have what he wants, right now. The best consumer, in other words, exists in a perpetual state of childishness.

    In his new book, Consumed, political scientist Benjamin Barber writes that ours is the first society that acts as if its survival depends on keeping maturity – which involves learning to master one's impulses – at bay. There is little in American political, religious, social or economic life that prizes restraint and sacrifice for a higher purpose.

    "This strategy makes good commercial sense," writes Mr. Barber, because of the market's need "to sell unnecessary goods to people whose adult judgment and tastes are obstacles."

    Better yet for capitalists, cultivate a market among people who have no adult judgment and taste to overcome: children themselves. James McNeal, a Texas A&M marketing professor, has written: "Brand marketing must begin with children. Even if a child does not buy the product and will not for many years ... the marketing must begin in childhood."

    Mr. McNeal's perverse ideas are the enemy of the family. If marketers train children to think of themselves chiefly in terms of consumer wants, they are teaching them to be faithful not to what their parents teach them but to their individual desires – prisoners of their own cravings.

    So what? Shopping isn't bad in principle, and besides, if people want to behave as shopaholics, it's a free country, right? Of course. But as Mr. Barber warns, private choices have public consequences. If the credit bubble bursts, it's going to take down the good with the bad, the prudent with the spendthrift. More profoundly, adopting the consumerist mentality – which defines liberty only as individual choice, without respect to what is chosen – makes it difficult to inculcate a sense of obligation to any traditions or ideals higher than serving the autonomous self and its desires.

    Democracy requires virtue. So does a healthy capitalism. A nation that cannot govern its own appetites will, in time, be unable to govern itself. An economy that divorces economic activity from the restraining virtues that make for good stewardship will implode.

    We conservatives wail over the late, unlamented Republican Congress' deficit spending. Yet the truth is that any politician who told voters to do more with less – that is, to conserve for the sake of a higher good – would be punished at the polls.

    President Bush is often derided for having responded to the Sept. 11 attacks by urging the American people to go shopping. But he faithfully represents the ignoble spirit of the consumer capitalist age, in which the public demands, in Mr. Barber's telling, "war without conscription, idealism without taxation, morality without sacrifice."

    Socialism is not the answer. But we can't pretend that our prosperity does not present us with serious civic problems. Consumer capitalism contains within its unfolding dynamic the seeds of its own destruction, to say nothing of the way it chews up traditional loyalties to faith, family, community and place.

    We don't talk about this much in American politics, especially not on the right, where we've been supposedly waging a culture war for the traditional values cause for some time now. But we're starting to: The American Conservative, which excerpted Mr. Barber's book as a recent cover story, is fast becoming the most interesting political magazine on the right because it recognizes a simple but radical truth: When it comes to defending the things traditional conservatives cherish, big business is as much a threat as big government.

    Evils of capitalism | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Columnists: Rod Dreher
     
  3. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    Maybe socialism isn't the answer, well at least socialism in its purest sense, but market socialism might just be the ticket.
     
  4. Bass v 2.0
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    Bass v 2.0 Biblical Warrior For God.

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    Too much of pure anything as far politics are concerned is bad. At this time, especially during Bush's tenure in office, the evils of capitalism are overtly manifesting their ugly heads even more so. Bushanomics, much like Reganomics, needs a healthy dose of socialism, that way not as many people need to suffer to make somebody else rich.
     
  5. Bass v 2.0
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    Bass v 2.0 Biblical Warrior For God.

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    American capitalism breeds greed, materialism

    Success. The drive. The great motivator. The American dream. The big house, the fancy car, the six-figure salary. And stuff. Lots and lots of stuff. So much stuff, in fact, that it compels one to build trophy homes in previously uninhabited wild places to stick it away for the occasional conjugal visit.

    We Americans consume. That is what we do. We are programmed to want more, need more, not be able to survive without more, more, more!


    Our economy and thus our society is dependent upon this drive. So much so that in a time of crisis, we are guided by our political shepherds to give in and become assimilated by the marketing megalomaniacs as part of our patriotic duty. Yes grieve, but not for too long, for it is time to get out and buy stuff! No, it doesn’t particularly matter what — this country requires your unbridled, indiscriminate devouring of crap to retain peace, stability and security. It is the call of consummate consumption.


    Now, Americans have an excuse to give in to their compulsive desire to hoard anything manufactured. A desire ingrained by a useless system places so much emphasis on the dollar that those with the highest net worth gain positions of power from which they further our sick dependency on wealth.


    Someone owns everything. Corporations devour each other like mongrel dogs gnawing on the rancid bone of opportunity, hiding behind logos and brand names so far removed from their true agendas as to render them incognito as they dupe the consumer into sponsoring their corrupt deeds.


    You cannot escape it. Look around you right this moment, and see how many brand names, product names or other forms of blatant advertising you see in your immediate surroundings. Amazing, is it not? We are so accustomed to seeing a corporate logo on everything that we tune it out, letting our subconscious devour the chum smeared throughout our daily lives baiting our indiscriminating dollar.


    Spend a little time researching who owns the company that made something, and whose exorbitant prices you have paid in order to advertise on their behalf, and you may be surprised to find other rackets into which they are sticking their greedy little fingers. For example, with no effort at all, you can pull up the internal document from Nike detailing the brutal exploitation of Vietnamese workers.


    Through a little Internet research, (God bless the anarchy of the electronic age) you will discover that household favorites such as Jell-O, Kool-Aid, Cheez Whiz, Tombstone Pizza, Fruity Pebbles, Oreos, Maxwell House Coffee and Cool Whip are all brought to you by Philip Morris, the very same conglomerate that brings you 51 percent of America’s cancer-inducing emphysema sticks.


    Yet still we consume habitually with little thought to who our dollars are supporting, because we have been told that spending is good, regardless of what you are buying or why — don’t think; spend!


    It does not have to be like this.


    The action is simple, the message is profound. Set a goal for yourself, and simply buy nothing for however long you think you can manage - gradually increasing that period of purchasing hiatus until you can go months or more without adding a dime to the coffers of blood-sucking fat cats. For those who seek support and safety in numbers, join the global movement in Buy-Nothing Day and purchase absolutely nothing for 24 hours following Thanksgiving — traditionally the day of least restraint in America.


    Our country’s economy be damned - do not give in and consume for capitalism. A system that requires we fund some businessman’s private empire in order for the nation to survive can never serve the interests of the common person. In fact, it is this devotion to the Ameri-corporate imperialism that is largely responsible for much of the turmoil we are witnessing in the world today. Now is the time to break the cycle.


    Buy local, and only when necessary, or buy not at all.


    Taking a stand is that easy, and it costs you nothing.


    Loren Bell is a student of the natural histories and the humanities. He can be purchased at reached at lbell@ttu.edu.


    American capitalism breeds greed, materialism - Opinions
     
  6. Diuretic
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    Diuretic Permanently confused

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    I think it's worldwide. It's entirely possible that capitalism as we used to know it has outlived its usefulness and needs to be ameliorated with socialism. My point about market socialism was that it can take the best of both systems and make the economy work for us instead of the other way around.
     
  7. Bass v 2.0
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    The Bass agrees, but it would be hard to take the best out of capitalism without the greed factor still being present. Thats the thing thats making capitalism so bad, greed.
     
  8. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    BEFORE anyone supports a more socialist economy, bear in the mind that MOST of the CAPTAINS OF INDUSTRY benefit from the SOCIALISM already in place far more than all the welfare recipients combined.

    My suggestion is that we clean up government before we give it any more power.

    How do we do that?

    How about the death penalty to any government official or private interest which conspires to screw over the American taxpayer by fraud?

    Think Halliburton, for examples of the insiders no-bid socialist fruads that make the rich richer with the help of a corrupt government.

    Of course that solution will never happen, folks.

    Our entire system of government and business is designed to rake money from the working class to give it to the capital class.

    Isn't this all fairly obvious to most of us be we right moderate OR left?

    The Soviets tried pure socialism and look how well that worked out for them.

    The USA tried purer capitalism and it took the great depression ( and the threat of a communist revolution) before FDR modified capitalism and government enough to even have a viable middle class.

    What's the solution?

    There is no solution, folks.

    We're just bad monkeys...all of us.
     
  9. Bass v 2.0
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    Bass v 2.0 Biblical Warrior For God.

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    Well they're not really benefitting from socialism, they're benefitting from corruption, quite literally.

    And lets be realistic, this country was founded upon capitalistic greed and white supremacy. Unless you have a full scale bloody revolution which will remove the corrupt and the system that supports and upholds them, nothing is going to change. That means changing America as we know it and the way thats its always been. However we can incorporate some socialist principles to limit the power of these corrupt people. Most of the wealth of the nation is in the hands of a few people while most of the people in America are work-class people. If you do they math, no one should be poor in this country, but on the same token, a comparatively handful of people should *NOT* be holding the majority of the wealth in this country. They have what they need and then some, yet still want more. Its greed and there's only one group of people on this ploanet with that type of a greed complex[J---], but thats a whole different thread.
     
  10. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Almost all of it perfectly legal corruption, though, Chalie.

    True. Let's be even more realistic, it was mostly based on White Anglos Saxon supremacy, Charlie. I'm White and I can assure you, I am not reigning supremely.


    And if we do that we will have another crop of elite ruling over us, Charlie. Sad but true.


    You mean we retro the laws somewhat to go back to pre-REAGANOMICS?

    Capital idea. Now just try to convince any DEMOCRAP or REPUBLICAN to do that.

    You can't. the system of nod nod wink wink insider capital/ insider politician is far too calcified into the system to get it done.



    Yup. And we can thank the tax system for that.


    The primary feature of capitalism is that nothing succceeds like success. Once you have a cpaital advantage you can capitalize on that to make that advantage greater until it is virtually impossible for the superwealthy not to be the winners at ever turn.

    Throw in a government dead set against changing that, and a propaganda machine that makes the mentally challenged willing class traitors, and you've got youself the roadmap to neo-feudalism.

    Remember Charlies, the peasants nearly always loved the King. It's human nature for the truly stupid to worship their masters.


    Greed, unbridled greed (which is not just enlightened self-interest) is a mental disease.

    But it's not one we're likely to recognize as such because anyone who tries to announce this fact finds themselves beset by the guard-dogs of the greedy. (See hippies, death of the movement)

    Like JP Morgan said:

    I have no fear of the working class because I know I can always hire one worker to kill another worker.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2008

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