Will you condemn this murder?

[Lipush]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The UN does not designate terrorists organization in that way.

And just what are those "instructions from the UN"?

Helping Member States to counter terrorism - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism

. Security Council resolution 1373 makes it mandatory for all states to eliminate the financing of terrorism, while resolution 1267 along with subsequent related resolutions freeze all the financial assets of Al Qaida and Taliban associates. Both those resolutions call for strict travel bans against potential terrorists. Subsequent Security Council resolutions also place Al Qaida and Taliban members under a strict arms embargo. The recently concluded International Convention for the Suppression of Nuclear Terrorism aims to prevent potential terrorists from acquiring nuclear weapons while resolution 1540 of the Security Council creates a mandatory set of measures for countries to implement in order to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

And seeing as no nation has deemed Jews to be terrorists then it does not apply to Israel

Where does the UN designate the Palestinians as terrorists?

(COMMENT)

All terrorist activities hide behind the fact that the UN has not defined "terrorism" on the Global Level (a concept without a universally accepted definition); but rather --- an umbrella description on a level of political activism that employees a measure of depravity to coercion and intimidation a population of governed entity to accept a political end state. (Like pornography: You know it when you see it. Just as there is no true definition universally accepted for "political violence.") No one argues that the Palestinian Olympic Massacre, or the attack on October 15, 2003 when an explosion on a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip killed four Americans (and the several hundred hijackings, suicide bombings, and ambushes in between) were not Palestinian terrorist attacks designed to make a statement.

NOTE: To be clear, not all Palestinians are terrorists. However most Palestinians have provided material support to terrorist activities in one form or another. HAMAS is a political movement that opposes the basic tenants of the UN Charter [Article 2(4)] and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; relative to the threat or use of force. It is a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization. The argument that it is a democratically elected governments (from nearly a decade ago) on goes to lend evidence that the People of Gaza support a government that supports terrorism; and lends protection training facilities and safe havens to other terrorist groups.
​

Terrorism, and the associated activities, are a crime(s) committed by persons, organizations or governments. These crimes or activities have, thus far, been defined either under individual domestic law of member nations, or by economic and/or security cooperatives. The European Union defines it as:

Article 1

Terrorist offences and fundamental rights and principles

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional acts referred to below in points (a) to (i), as defined as offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of:

- seriously intimidating a population, or

- unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

- seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,
​

shall be deemed to be terrorist offences:

(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;

(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;

(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;

(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss;

(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;

(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons;

(g) release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(h) interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).​

Terrorism as a form of political activism is recognized or defined by their organizational actions, or in the some cases, self-defined (Jihadists or Islamists).

Murder is a domestic crime. Depending on the intent, magnitude and purpose, it can be a war crime, a crime against humanity, terrorism, or any combination thereof. To be an terrorism, there must be the element of the threat or use of force to project intimidation or coercion. Clearly, when Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled jewish American appliance manufacturer, who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian Terrorists (Abu Abbas) who pirated the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985; the Palestinian Terrorist were making a statement. Similarly, when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped at the bus/hitchhiking stop at the Israeli settlement, and HAMAS official Salah al-Arouri (founder of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas military), and publicly acknowledged the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was behind the kidnappings and murder, --- this event as well, was used as a means of coercion and intimidation (making a political statement). And the threat does not have to be militarily effective to create an atmosphere of intimidation:

"Are the tunnels a new calamity capable of changing the balance of power in Gaza? Probably not. It’s difficult to find instances when tunnel tactics have fundamentally altered the course of a war. They are, by nature, tactics born of desperation. But they have always been effective in sowing fear. It’s no coincidence that we’re hearing a lot about tunnels precisely when events in Gaza find the Israelis in desperate need of friends."
SOURCE: Washington Post Gerard DeGroot is a professor of history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.
​

Over and over again, I've seen the Palestinian Terrorist try and hide behind the argument that there is no UN Definition for terrorist or terrorism, per sa, yet there is no question that the UN Security Council can recognize it when they see it. Not only does the UN have a complete Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in place, but the Security Council has passed over three dozen Resolutions (since the beginning of the 21st Century) that implement the strategy.

The Palestinians (in particular HAMAS) need to argue this point (and the point that it is NOT an international conflict --- an argument in itself that is a double-edged sword) because UN Security Council Resolution 1373 stipulates that it: "Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts."

Most Respectfully,
R

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

They were elected and supported, like, gazillion years ago.

They refused to have another election.

Another espect of them terrorizing their own people

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The UN does not designate terrorists organization in that way.

And just what are those "instructions from the UN"?

Helping Member States to counter terrorism - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism

. Security Council resolution 1373 makes it mandatory for all states to eliminate the financing of terrorism, while resolution 1267 along with subsequent related resolutions freeze all the financial assets of Al Qaida and Taliban associates. Both those resolutions call for strict travel bans against potential terrorists. Subsequent Security Council resolutions also place Al Qaida and Taliban members under a strict arms embargo. The recently concluded International Convention for the Suppression of Nuclear Terrorism aims to prevent potential terrorists from acquiring nuclear weapons while resolution 1540 of the Security Council creates a mandatory set of measures for countries to implement in order to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

And seeing as no nation has deemed Jews to be terrorists then it does not apply to Israel

Where does the UN designate the Palestinians as terrorists?

(COMMENT)

All terrorist activities hide behind the fact that the UN has not defined "terrorism" on the Global Level (a concept without a universally accepted definition); but rather --- an umbrella description on a level of political activism that employees a measure of depravity to coercion and intimidation a population of governed entity to accept a political end state. (Like pornography: You know it when you see it. Just as there is no true definition universally accepted for "political violence.") No one argues that the Palestinian Olympic Massacre, or the attack on October 15, 2003 when an explosion on a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip killed four Americans (and the several hundred hijackings, suicide bombings, and ambushes in between) were not Palestinian terrorist attacks designed to make a statement.

NOTE: To be clear, not all Palestinians are terrorists. However most Palestinians have provided material support to terrorist activities in one form or another. HAMAS is a political movement that opposes the basic tenants of the UN Charter [Article 2(4)] and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; relative to the threat or use of force. It is a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization. The argument that it is a democratically elected governments (from nearly a decade ago) on goes to lend evidence that the People of Gaza support a government that supports terrorism; and lends protection training facilities and safe havens to other terrorist groups.
​

Terrorism, and the associated activities, are a crime(s) committed by persons, organizations or governments. These crimes or activities have, thus far, been defined either under individual domestic law of member nations, or by economic and/or security cooperatives. The European Union defines it as:

Article 1

Terrorist offences and fundamental rights and principles

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional acts referred to below in points (a) to (i), as defined as offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of:

- seriously intimidating a population, or

- unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

- seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,
​

shall be deemed to be terrorist offences:

(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;

(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;

(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;

(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss;

(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;

(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons;

(g) release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(h) interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).​

Terrorism as a form of political activism is recognized or defined by their organizational actions, or in the some cases, self-defined (Jihadists or Islamists).

Murder is a domestic crime. Depending on the intent, magnitude and purpose, it can be a war crime, a crime against humanity, terrorism, or any combination thereof. To be an terrorism, there must be the element of the threat or use of force to project intimidation or coercion. Clearly, when Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled jewish American appliance manufacturer, who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian Terrorists (Abu Abbas) who pirated the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985; the Palestinian Terrorist were making a statement. Similarly, when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped at the bus/hitchhiking stop at the Israeli settlement, and HAMAS official Salah al-Arouri (founder of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas military), and publicly acknowledged the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was behind the kidnappings and murder, --- this event as well, was used as a means of coercion and intimidation (making a political statement). And the threat does not have to be militarily effective to create an atmosphere of intimidation:

"Are the tunnels a new calamity capable of changing the balance of power in Gaza? Probably not. It’s difficult to find instances when tunnel tactics have fundamentally altered the course of a war. They are, by nature, tactics born of desperation. But they have always been effective in sowing fear. It’s no coincidence that we’re hearing a lot about tunnels precisely when events in Gaza find the Israelis in desperate need of friends."
SOURCE: Washington Post Gerard DeGroot is a professor of history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.
​

Over and over again, I've seen the Palestinian Terrorist try and hide behind the argument that there is no UN Definition for terrorist or terrorism, per sa, yet there is no question that the UN Security Council can recognize it when they see it. Not only does the UN have a complete Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in place, but the Security Council has passed over three dozen Resolutions (since the beginning of the 21st Century) that implement the strategy.

The Palestinians (in particular HAMAS) need to argue this point (and the point that it is NOT an international conflict --- an argument in itself that is a double-edged sword) because UN Security Council Resolution 1373 stipulates that it: "Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts."

Most Respectfully,
R

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

They were elected and supported, like, gazillion years ago.

They refused to have another election.

Another espect of them terrorizing their own people

We need to consider also that islamic terrorist organizations exist as criminal syndicates in addition to existing as loathsome cults. They basically define the pyramid scheme.

At the apex of the scheme are the true scam artists who make enormous piles of cash while standing on the necks of the fearful and ignorant who they manipulate.

Possibly no better example of fraud and incompetence that maintains such a pyramid scheme is demonstrated by the UN welfare agency that supports Hamas and the Hamas leaders who make enormous wealth by maintaining the fraud.

There's not a snowballs chance in hell that Hamas will ever agree to elections as long as the welfare spigot is barfing out infidel welfare dollars.

Hamas. #2 most wealthy Islamic terrorist syndicate.

The World s 10 Richest Terrorist Organizations - Forbes

 

[P F Tinmore]

Roccor

Also to blame, of course, are the law enforcement authorities, starting with the Judea and Samaria District Police – the most ridiculous and scandalous of all police districts, and not by chance. Nine Palestinian homes were torched in the past three years, according to B’Tselem. How many people have been prosecuted? None. So what happened in Duma on Friday? The fire was simply better, in the eyes of the arsonists and their minions.

Their minions also include the silent, the forgiving and all those who think the evil will remain forever within the confines of the West Bank. Their minions also include the Israelis who are convinced that the People of Israel is the chosen people, and as a result is permitted to do anything – including torching the homes of non-Jews, with their inhabitants inside.
read more: All Israelis Are Guilty of Setting a Palestinian Family on Fire Opinion Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

And how many times were they REelected...when was their last election?

They haven't had elections since the US trashed their entire political system in 2007.

WRONG the reason is that hamas knows that it would not win another election so has refused to hold elections since 2007. It has nothing to do with Israel or the USA

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

 

[Hollie]

And how many times were they REelected...when was their last election?

They haven't had elections since the US trashed their entire political system in 2007.

WRONG the reason is that hamas knows that it would not win another election so has refused to hold elections since 2007. It has nothing to do with Israel or the USA

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

Anyone with an internet connection can open a YouTube account.

The problem with the internet is that, in addition to being a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for conspiracy theorists, gullible loons and YouTube groupies.

In which group(s) do you define yourself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

They haven't had elections since the US trashed their entire political system in 2007.

WRONG the reason is that hamas knows that it would not win another election so has refused to hold elections since 2007. It has nothing to do with Israel or the USA

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

Anyone with an internet connection can open a YouTube account.

The problem with the internet is that, in addition to being a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for conspiracy theorists, gullible loons and YouTube groupies.

In which group(s) do you define yourself.

I posted a ME source, a British source, a Canadian source, and a Gaza source.

How about one from The Jewish Journal?

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of "€œengaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory."€ He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. 'It looks to me that what happened wasn'€™t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,"€ Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell The God Blog Jewish Journal​

Your problem is that if it is not Israeli propaganda you reject it.

 

[Hollie]

WRONG the reason is that hamas knows that it would not win another election so has refused to hold elections since 2007. It has nothing to do with Israel or the USA

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

Anyone with an internet connection can open a YouTube account.

The problem with the internet is that, in addition to being a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for conspiracy theorists, gullible loons and YouTube groupies.

In which group(s) do you define yourself.

I posted a ME source, a British source, a Canadian source, and a Gaza source.

How about one from The Jewish Journal?

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of "€œengaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory."€ He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. 'It looks to me that what happened wasn'€™t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,"€ Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell The God Blog Jewish Journal​

Your problem is that if it is not Israeli propaganda you reject it.

You posted YouTube videos. As I noted, anybody can make a YouTube video. Obviously, the creator of the video is not available to defend its content so we're left to accept it for what it is.

 

[Challenger]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The UN does not designate terrorists organization in that way.

And just what are those "instructions from the UN"?

Helping Member States to counter terrorism - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism

. Security Council resolution 1373 makes it mandatory for all states to eliminate the financing of terrorism, while resolution 1267 along with subsequent related resolutions freeze all the financial assets of Al Qaida and Taliban associates. Both those resolutions call for strict travel bans against potential terrorists. Subsequent Security Council resolutions also place Al Qaida and Taliban members under a strict arms embargo. The recently concluded International Convention for the Suppression of Nuclear Terrorism aims to prevent potential terrorists from acquiring nuclear weapons while resolution 1540 of the Security Council creates a mandatory set of measures for countries to implement in order to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

And seeing as no nation has deemed Jews to be terrorists then it does not apply to Israel

Where does the UN designate the Palestinians as terrorists?

(COMMENT)

All terrorist activities hide behind the fact that the UN has not defined "terrorism" on the Global Level (a concept without a universally accepted definition); but rather --- an umbrella description on a level of political activism that employees a measure of depravity to coercion and intimidation a population of governed entity to accept a political end state. (Like pornography: You know it when you see it. Just as there is no true definition universally accepted for "political violence.") No one argues that the Palestinian Olympic Massacre, or the attack on October 15, 2003 when an explosion on a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip killed four Americans (and the several hundred hijackings, suicide bombings, and ambushes in between) were not Palestinian terrorist attacks designed to make a statement.

NOTE: To be clear, not all Palestinians are terrorists. However most Palestinians have provided material support to terrorist activities in one form or another. HAMAS is a political movement that opposes the basic tenants of the UN Charter [Article 2(4)] and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; relative to the threat or use of force. It is a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization. The argument that it is a democratically elected governments (from nearly a decade ago) on goes to lend evidence that the People of Gaza support a government that supports terrorism; and lends protection training facilities and safe havens to other terrorist groups.
​

Terrorism, and the associated activities, are a crime(s) committed by persons, organizations or governments. These crimes or activities have, thus far, been defined either under individual domestic law of member nations, or by economic and/or security cooperatives. The European Union defines it as:

Article 1

Terrorist offences and fundamental rights and principles

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional acts referred to below in points (a) to (i), as defined as offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of:

- seriously intimidating a population, or

- unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

- seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,
​

shall be deemed to be terrorist offences:

(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;

(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;

(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;

(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss;

(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;

(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons;

(g) release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(h) interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).​

Terrorism as a form of political activism is recognized or defined by their organizational actions, or in the some cases, self-defined (Jihadists or Islamists).

Murder is a domestic crime. Depending on the intent, magnitude and purpose, it can be a war crime, a crime against humanity, terrorism, or any combination thereof. To be an terrorism, there must be the element of the threat or use of force to project intimidation or coercion. Clearly, when Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled jewish American appliance manufacturer, who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian Terrorists (Abu Abbas) who pirated the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985; the Palestinian Terrorist were making a statement. Similarly, when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped at the bus/hitchhiking stop at the Israeli settlement, and HAMAS official Salah al-Arouri (founder of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas military), and publicly acknowledged the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was behind the kidnappings and murder, --- this event as well, was used as a means of coercion and intimidation (making a political statement). And the threat does not have to be militarily effective to create an atmosphere of intimidation:

"Are the tunnels a new calamity capable of changing the balance of power in Gaza? Probably not. It’s difficult to find instances when tunnel tactics have fundamentally altered the course of a war. They are, by nature, tactics born of desperation. But they have always been effective in sowing fear. It’s no coincidence that we’re hearing a lot about tunnels precisely when events in Gaza find the Israelis in desperate need of friends."
SOURCE: Washington Post Gerard DeGroot is a professor of history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.
​

Over and over again, I've seen the Palestinian Terrorist try and hide behind the argument that there is no UN Definition for terrorist or terrorism, per sa, yet there is no question that the UN Security Council can recognize it when they see it. Not only does the UN have a complete Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in place, but the Security Council has passed over three dozen Resolutions (since the beginning of the 21st Century) that implement the strategy.

The Palestinians (in particular HAMAS) need to argue this point (and the point that it is NOT an international conflict --- an argument in itself that is a double-edged sword) because UN Security Council Resolution 1373 stipulates that it: "Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts."

Most Respectfully,
R

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

They were elected and supported, like, gazillion years ago.

They refused to have another election.

Another espect of them terrorizing their own people

9 years isn't quite a "gazillion"

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

HAMAS can be brutal towards their opponents and that certainly includes instilling fear into them. Fatah are exactly the same, but Fatah are supported by Zionist Israel and America...

 

[Challenger]

They haven't had elections since the US trashed their entire political system in 2007.

WRONG the reason is that hamas knows that it would not win another election so has refused to hold elections since 2007. It has nothing to do with Israel or the USA

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

Anyone with an internet connection can open a YouTube account.

The problem with the internet is that, in addition to being a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for conspiracy theorists, gullible loons and YouTube groupies.

In which group(s) do you define yourself.

Tell that to your "sound bite sister" rylah.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You need to come up to speed.

Deputy National Security Advisor, Elliott Abrams — who Newsweek recently described as “the last neocon standing” — has had it about for some months now that the U.S. is not only not interested in dealing with Hamas, it is working to ensure its failure. In the immediate aftermath of the Hamas elections, last January, Abrams greeted a group of Palestinian businessmen in his White House office with talk of a “hard coup” against the newly-elected Hamas government — the violent overthrow of their leadership with arms supplied by the United States. While the businessmen were shocked, Abrams was adamant — the U.S. had to support Fatah with guns, ammunition and training, so that they could fight Hamas for control of the Palestinian government. - See more at: Elliot Abrams Uncivil War Conflicts Forum​

-------------------------------

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

The Gaza Bombshell Vanity Fair​

Reads like a fictional mystery novel: "sources", "government officials", "confidential documents", etc., none of which are produced.

Everybody always bitches about the source. I linked to two independent reports.

Here is another one out of Canada.



And another one from on the ground in Gaza.

Start @ 6:40

Anyone with an internet connection can open a YouTube account.

The problem with the internet is that, in addition to being a valuable source of data, it can also be a playground for conspiracy theorists, gullible loons and YouTube groupies.

In which group(s) do you define yourself.

I posted a ME source, a British source, a Canadian source, and a Gaza source.

How about one from The Jewish Journal?

Wurmser accuses the Bush administration of "€œengaging in a dirty war in an effort to provide a corrupt dictatorship [led by Abbas] with victory."€ He believes that Hamas had no intention of taking Gaza until Fatah forced its hand. 'It looks to me that what happened wasn'€™t so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen,"€ Wurmser says.

The Gaza Bombshell The God Blog Jewish Journal​

Your problem is that if it is not Israeli propaganda you reject it.

You posted YouTube videos. As I noted, anybody can make a YouTube video. Obviously, the creator of the video is not available to defend its content so we're left to accept it for what it is.

Youtube is a medium not a source.

 

[Lipush]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The UN does not designate terrorists organization in that way.

Helping Member States to counter terrorism - United Nations Action to Counter Terrorism

. Security Council resolution 1373 makes it mandatory for all states to eliminate the financing of terrorism, while resolution 1267 along with subsequent related resolutions freeze all the financial assets of Al Qaida and Taliban associates. Both those resolutions call for strict travel bans against potential terrorists. Subsequent Security Council resolutions also place Al Qaida and Taliban members under a strict arms embargo. The recently concluded International Convention for the Suppression of Nuclear Terrorism aims to prevent potential terrorists from acquiring nuclear weapons while resolution 1540 of the Security Council creates a mandatory set of measures for countries to implement in order to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

And seeing as no nation has deemed Jews to be terrorists then it does not apply to Israel

Where does the UN designate the Palestinians as terrorists?

(COMMENT)

All terrorist activities hide behind the fact that the UN has not defined "terrorism" on the Global Level (a concept without a universally accepted definition); but rather --- an umbrella description on a level of political activism that employees a measure of depravity to coercion and intimidation a population of governed entity to accept a political end state. (Like pornography: You know it when you see it. Just as there is no true definition universally accepted for "political violence.") No one argues that the Palestinian Olympic Massacre, or the attack on October 15, 2003 when an explosion on a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip killed four Americans (and the several hundred hijackings, suicide bombings, and ambushes in between) were not Palestinian terrorist attacks designed to make a statement.

NOTE: To be clear, not all Palestinians are terrorists. However most Palestinians have provided material support to terrorist activities in one form or another. HAMAS is a political movement that opposes the basic tenants of the UN Charter [Article 2(4)] and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; relative to the threat or use of force. It is a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization. The argument that it is a democratically elected governments (from nearly a decade ago) on goes to lend evidence that the People of Gaza support a government that supports terrorism; and lends protection training facilities and safe havens to other terrorist groups.
​

Terrorism, and the associated activities, are a crime(s) committed by persons, organizations or governments. These crimes or activities have, thus far, been defined either under individual domestic law of member nations, or by economic and/or security cooperatives. The European Union defines it as:

Article 1

Terrorist offences and fundamental rights and principles

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional acts referred to below in points (a) to (i), as defined as offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of:

- seriously intimidating a population, or

- unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

- seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,
​

shall be deemed to be terrorist offences:

(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;

(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;

(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;

(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss;

(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;

(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons;

(g) release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(h) interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).​

Terrorism as a form of political activism is recognized or defined by their organizational actions, or in the some cases, self-defined (Jihadists or Islamists).

Murder is a domestic crime. Depending on the intent, magnitude and purpose, it can be a war crime, a crime against humanity, terrorism, or any combination thereof. To be an terrorism, there must be the element of the threat or use of force to project intimidation or coercion. Clearly, when Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled jewish American appliance manufacturer, who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian Terrorists (Abu Abbas) who pirated the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985; the Palestinian Terrorist were making a statement. Similarly, when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped at the bus/hitchhiking stop at the Israeli settlement, and HAMAS official Salah al-Arouri (founder of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas military), and publicly acknowledged the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was behind the kidnappings and murder, --- this event as well, was used as a means of coercion and intimidation (making a political statement). And the threat does not have to be militarily effective to create an atmosphere of intimidation:

"Are the tunnels a new calamity capable of changing the balance of power in Gaza? Probably not. It’s difficult to find instances when tunnel tactics have fundamentally altered the course of a war. They are, by nature, tactics born of desperation. But they have always been effective in sowing fear. It’s no coincidence that we’re hearing a lot about tunnels precisely when events in Gaza find the Israelis in desperate need of friends."
SOURCE: Washington Post Gerard DeGroot is a professor of history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.
​

Over and over again, I've seen the Palestinian Terrorist try and hide behind the argument that there is no UN Definition for terrorist or terrorism, per sa, yet there is no question that the UN Security Council can recognize it when they see it. Not only does the UN have a complete Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in place, but the Security Council has passed over three dozen Resolutions (since the beginning of the 21st Century) that implement the strategy.

The Palestinians (in particular HAMAS) need to argue this point (and the point that it is NOT an international conflict --- an argument in itself that is a double-edged sword) because UN Security Council Resolution 1373 stipulates that it: "Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts."

Most Respectfully,
R

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

They were elected and supported, like, gazillion years ago.

They refused to have another election.

Another espect of them terrorizing their own people

9 years isn't quite a "gazillion"

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

HAMAS can be brutal towards their opponents and that certainly includes instilling fear into them. Fatah are exactly the same, but Fatah are supported by Zionist Israel and America...

Why can't you respond to the point.

They had elections 9 years ago? why wasn't there another round of elections till now?

 

[Challenger]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The UN does not designate terrorists organization in that way.

Where does the UN designate the Palestinians as terrorists?

(COMMENT)

All terrorist activities hide behind the fact that the UN has not defined "terrorism" on the Global Level (a concept without a universally accepted definition); but rather --- an umbrella description on a level of political activism that employees a measure of depravity to coercion and intimidation a population of governed entity to accept a political end state. (Like pornography: You know it when you see it. Just as there is no true definition universally accepted for "political violence.") No one argues that the Palestinian Olympic Massacre, or the attack on October 15, 2003 when an explosion on a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip killed four Americans (and the several hundred hijackings, suicide bombings, and ambushes in between) were not Palestinian terrorist attacks designed to make a statement.

NOTE: To be clear, not all Palestinians are terrorists. However most Palestinians have provided material support to terrorist activities in one form or another. HAMAS is a political movement that opposes the basic tenants of the UN Charter [Article 2(4)] and the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States; relative to the threat or use of force. It is a self-proclaimed Jihadist organization. The argument that it is a democratically elected governments (from nearly a decade ago) on goes to lend evidence that the People of Gaza support a government that supports terrorism; and lends protection training facilities and safe havens to other terrorist groups.
​

Terrorism, and the associated activities, are a crime(s) committed by persons, organizations or governments. These crimes or activities have, thus far, been defined either under individual domestic law of member nations, or by economic and/or security cooperatives. The European Union defines it as:

Article 1

Terrorist offences and fundamental rights and principles

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional acts referred to below in points (a) to (i), as defined as offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation where committed with the aim of:

- seriously intimidating a population, or

- unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or

- seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation,
​

shall be deemed to be terrorist offences:

(a) attacks upon a person's life which may cause death;

(b) attacks upon the physical integrity of a person;

(c) kidnapping or hostage taking;

(d) causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss;

(e) seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport;

(f) manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons;

(g) release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(h) interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life;

(i) threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h).​

Terrorism as a form of political activism is recognized or defined by their organizational actions, or in the some cases, self-defined (Jihadists or Islamists).

Murder is a domestic crime. Depending on the intent, magnitude and purpose, it can be a war crime, a crime against humanity, terrorism, or any combination thereof. To be an terrorism, there must be the element of the threat or use of force to project intimidation or coercion. Clearly, when Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled jewish American appliance manufacturer, who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian Terrorists (Abu Abbas) who pirated the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985; the Palestinian Terrorist were making a statement. Similarly, when three Israeli teenagers were kidnapped at the bus/hitchhiking stop at the Israeli settlement, and HAMAS official Salah al-Arouri (founder of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the Hamas military), and publicly acknowledged the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, was behind the kidnappings and murder, --- this event as well, was used as a means of coercion and intimidation (making a political statement). And the threat does not have to be militarily effective to create an atmosphere of intimidation:

"Are the tunnels a new calamity capable of changing the balance of power in Gaza? Probably not. It’s difficult to find instances when tunnel tactics have fundamentally altered the course of a war. They are, by nature, tactics born of desperation. But they have always been effective in sowing fear. It’s no coincidence that we’re hearing a lot about tunnels precisely when events in Gaza find the Israelis in desperate need of friends."
SOURCE: Washington Post Gerard DeGroot is a professor of history at the University of St Andrews in Scotland.
​

Over and over again, I've seen the Palestinian Terrorist try and hide behind the argument that there is no UN Definition for terrorist or terrorism, per sa, yet there is no question that the UN Security Council can recognize it when they see it. Not only does the UN have a complete Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy in place, but the Security Council has passed over three dozen Resolutions (since the beginning of the 21st Century) that implement the strategy.

The Palestinians (in particular HAMAS) need to argue this point (and the point that it is NOT an international conflict --- an argument in itself that is a double-edged sword) because UN Security Council Resolution 1373 stipulates that it: "Reaffirming the need to combat by all means, in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts."

Most Respectfully,
R

But Hamas are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected and supported.

They don't buy into that foreign name calling crap.

Interesting @ 1:10

They were elected and supported, like, gazillion years ago.

They refused to have another election.

Another espect of them terrorizing their own people

9 years isn't quite a "gazillion"

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

HAMAS can be brutal towards their opponents and that certainly includes instilling fear into them. Fatah are exactly the same, but Fatah are supported by Zionist Israel and America...

Why can't you respond to the point.

They had elections 9 years ago? why wasn't there another round of elections till now?

I did respond to you point, you just couldn't be bothered to read it,

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

 

[fanger]

West Bank arson: Dead Palestinian child's father dies of wounds
A Palestinian man whose child was killed in an arson attack blamed on Jewish settlers has died of his injuries.

Saad Dawabsha, 32, died in an Israeli hospital where he was being treated for second-degree burns to most of his body.

His son Ali, 18 months, died in the attack in the village of Duma in the occupied West Bank on 31 July.

His mother and his four-year-old brother remain in critical condition.

Relatives said the funeral would take place on Saturday.

'Price tag attack'
The family's small home was firebombed in the night, and daubed with slogans in Hebrew, including the word "revenge".

West Bank arson Dead Palestinian child s father dies of wounds - BBC News

 

[JFish123]

Palestinian toddler killed in Jewish settler arson attack - BBC News

A Palestinian toddler has been burned to death in an arson attack by suspected Jewish settlers in the West Bank, Israeli police say.

The home where the 18-month-old boy and his family were sleeping was set on fire in the village of Douma near Nablus, local officials say.

The parents and the child's older brother were severely injured.

Will you condemn this murder?

Yes. Will you condemn the murder of Jews at the hand of Palestinian terrorists as well I wonder? Or just make excuses as to why it's justified


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, Fanger, et al,

The issue of voting/elections is a subject the outside observers should not be involved in addressing. This is strictly a Arab Palestinian domestic issue.

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

(COMMENT)

If the Arab Palestinians cannot resolve this question (should they --- or --- should they not have elections), then in effect, the Arab Palestinians do not have an effective government. Whether of not they have the ability to administer their nation in a democratic way under their Constitution is something they have to demonstrate.

Israel and the Quartet (UN, US, EU, and Russia) should not have a role in the decision making process.

Post # 250: Also to blame, of course, are the law enforcement authorities, starting with the Judea and Samaria District Police – the most ridiculous and scandalous of all police districts, and not by chance.

Our friend "Fanger" made the point recently that Israeli Law Enforcement is not policing the West Bank Settlers to the degree it should. This is --- without question --- a critical issue. And this should not allow to be continued. Matters of selective enforcement in favor of the Israeli settlers is unacceptable.

Especially of concern, to both the Israelis and the US, is the every growing concern that radical activism by Jewish West Bank settlers has evolved into a level of violence is approaching what could be described as cellular independent (domestic "Lone Wolf") type terrorism. Israel has to make more than a concerted effort to detect, investigate, protect against, exploit and neutralize (make apprehension and effectively prosecute) these radicalize Jews. The Israelis cannot allow homegrown terrorist to develop within the territory type claim as under Israeli jurisdiction. Israel cannot be seen as permitting far-right Jewish extremist with fringe ideologies to run-amuck in the territory creating havoc and engaging in activities that would be otherwise unlawful anywhere in Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Lipush]

West Bank arson: Dead Palestinian child's father dies of wounds
A Palestinian man whose child was killed in an arson attack blamed on Jewish settlers has died of his injuries.

Saad Dawabsha, 32, died in an Israeli hospital where he was being treated for second-degree burns to most of his body.

His son Ali, 18 months, died in the attack in the village of Duma in the occupied West Bank on 31 July.

His mother and his four-year-old brother remain in critical condition.

Relatives said the funeral would take place on Saturday.

'Price tag attack'
The family's small home was firebombed in the night, and daubed with slogans in Hebrew, including the word "revenge".

West Bank arson Dead Palestinian child s father dies of wounds - BBC News

He was never going to make it, sadly.

Even though the Soroka teams probably gave their best shot at helping him.

Sad

 

[fanger]

Sad, but not condemned?

 

[Hollie]

Sad, but not condemned?

I always condemn (<---- note the bold text for dramatic affect) Islamic terrorism.

 

[Lipush]

Sad, but not condemned?

Fact that you cannot handle basic reading doesn't mean I have to repeat myself over and over.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Challenger, Fanger, et al,

The issue of voting/elections is a subject the outside observers should not be involved in addressing. This is strictly a Arab Palestinian domestic issue.

Did they? Got a link to support that allegation? My understanding was that America Israel and the Quartet won't allow fresh elections in case Hamas win again with a greater majority.

(COMMENT)

If the Arab Palestinians cannot resolve this question (should they --- or --- should they not have elections), then in effect, the Arab Palestinians do not have an effective government. Whether of not they have the ability to administer their nation in a democratic way under their Constitution is something they have to demonstrate.

Israel and the Quartet (UN, US, EU, and Russia) should not have a role in the decision making process.

Post # 250: Also to blame, of course, are the law enforcement authorities, starting with the Judea and Samaria District Police – the most ridiculous and scandalous of all police districts, and not by chance.

Our friend "Fanger" made the point recently that Israeli Law Enforcement is not policing the West Bank Settlers to the degree it should. This is --- without question --- a critical issue. And this should not allow to be continued. Matters of selective enforcement in favor of the Israeli settlers is unacceptable.

Especially of concern, to both the Israelis and the US, is the every growing concern that radical activism by Jewish West Bank settlers has evolved into a level of violence is approaching what could be described as cellular independent (domestic "Lone Wolf") type terrorism. Israel has to make more than a concerted effort to detect, investigate, protect against, exploit and neutralize (make apprehension and effectively prosecute) these radicalize Jews. The Israelis cannot allow homegrown terrorist to develop within the territory type claim as under Israeli jurisdiction. Israel cannot be seen as permitting far-right Jewish extremist with fringe ideologies to run-amuck in the territory creating havoc and engaging in activities that would be otherwise unlawful anywhere in Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have a 50,000 (?) man security force. They are not allowed to defend Palestinians.

That is totally nuts.

 

[Challenger]

The issue of voting/elections is a subject the outside observers should not be involved in addressing. This is strictly a Arab Palestinian domestic issue.

If only that were true, for example, in the 2005 Presidential elections Abbas, the candidate favoured by the West and Zionist was elected by a margin of 40% when opinion polls has predicted a much closer race. THe Palestinian CEC, cited several factors that interfered with the electoral process not least of which was,

"Although freedom of movement is a fundamental right guaranteed by all laws, Israeli authorities have continued to violate this right. The Israeli restrictions on movement constitute a grave violation of article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which stipulates that "every individual has the right to free movement and to choose his/her residency within the boarders of the state….".Such breaches negatively affect the electoral process, and restrict the movement of voters, candidates and CEC staff.

The closure of roads is a commonly used Israeli policy which restricts the movements of Palestinians. The Israeli authorities have constructed more than 600 road closures in the West Bank. Road closures restrict the movement of Palestinians between the villages and cities and prevent them from reaching registration and polling centers. Road closures continue to restrict the movement of candidates between the Palestinian governorates, especially between Jerusalem and Gaza during the electoral campaigning period, which is the legal period in which candidates are allowed to conduct electoral campaigning activities."

Central Elections Commission - Palestine

Central Elections Commission - Palestine

Central Elections Commission - Palestine

In the 2006 PLC elections once again Zionist Israel interefered by arresting 450 HAMAS candidates and afterwards continually interfered in domestic Palestinian politics

Carter Center Urges Israel to Release Palestinian Legislators

Abbas is kept in power by the West and Zionist Israel, all of whom cannot risk free and fair unhindered elections within Occupied Palestine.