Will There Be A Repeat of History in Iraq?

[Adam's Apple]

The Dead Speak
By Paul Greenberg, Townhall
April 9, 2008

There are some names in the obituary columns that say more than the voices of the living.

Such is the name of Dith Pran, who died in New Brunswick, N.J., last Sunday at the age of 65. He was the Cambodian photographer who somehow survived the collection of killing fields that his country became after the Americans abandoned it. And who somehow made his way to the United States to tell the world about it.

for full article:
http://townhall.com/columnists/PaulGreenberg/2008/04/09/the_dead_speak

 

[Swamp Fox]

There will be a repeat of history in Iraq if Hillary and Obama have their way. They will cut and run just like Billy did from Somalia and leave a bigger mess then before.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Cut and run. Good sound bite.

Let's just stay and diddle like you want.

It was a fuck up to go there. How long do you perpetuate a mistake before you are making more mistakes?

By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 36 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb killed an American soldier in Baghdad on Saturday, capping the bloodiest week for U.S. troops in Iraq this year. Clashes persisted in Shiite areas, even as the biggest Shiite militia sought to rein in its fighters.


At least 13 Shiite militants were killed in the latest clashes in Baghdad's militia stronghold of Sadr City, the U.S. military said. Iraqi police said seven civilians also died in fighting, which erupted Friday night and tapered off Saturday.

The U.S. military said the American soldier was killed in a blast Saturday morning in northwestern Baghdad but did not say whether Shiite militiamen were responsible.

The death raised to at least 19 the number of American troopers killed in Iraq since last Sunday.

Yeah, let's just keep getting our troops killed. Then every six months or so, Petraeus and Crocker can say that they aren't sure when we will win or what constitutes winning, but there will be a terrible mess if we leave.

When Petraeus uses the dead soldiers he has brokered to run for Senate, will that make any difference? He is one of the perfumed princes that Colonel Hackworth wrote so much about. Fuck the troops full speed ahead on my career.

Fucking losers playing the patriotic pandering game, and you just go along lock step and curse out anyone who dares to disagree.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Col Hackworth wouldn't support leaving without finishing the job so quit quoting him. I thought Marines were taught to stay until the job was finished? By your reasoning, the USMC should have given up at Chosin, Pusan, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, and every other place it got too tough and people died.

What kind of candy ass Marine are you?

 

[Gunny]

Cut and run. Good sound bite.

Let's just stay and diddle like you want.

It was a fuck up to go there. How long do you perpetuate a mistake before you are making more mistakes?



Yeah, let's just keep getting our troops killed. Then every six months or so, Petraeus and Crocker can say that they aren't sure when we will win or what constitutes winning, but there will be a terrible mess if we leave.

When Petraeus uses the dead soldiers he has brokered to run for Senate, will that make any difference? He is one of the perfumed princes that Colonel Hackworth wrote so much about. Fuck the troops full speed ahead on my career.

Fucking losers playing the patriotic pandering game, and you just go along lock step and curse out anyone who dares to disagree.

You just described yourself to a "t".

 

[Adam's Apple]

It was a fuck up to go there. How long do you perpetuate a mistake before you are making more mistakes?

Yeah, let's just keep getting our troops killed. Then every six months or so, Petraeus and Crocker can say that they aren't sure when we will win or what constitutes winning, but there will be a terrible mess if we leave.

When Petraeus uses the dead soldiers he has brokered to run for Senate, will that make any difference? He is one of the perfumed princes that Colonel Hackworth wrote so much about. Fuck the troops full speed ahead on my career.

Fucking losers playing the patriotic pandering game, and you just go along lock step and curse out anyone who dares to disagree.

This is an example of the type of thinking that eventually resulted in the killing fields of Cambodia. What do you think will happen in Iraq if the Democrats force the withdrawal of U.S. troops?

 

[Swamp Fox]

My guess is that the libs don't care what happens in Iraq, just like they didn't care what happened to the Vietnamese after we left or to the Somalis after we left. If it doesn't involve them being in power, they don't care.

 

[PpleLOSINGpower]

So we stay and fight? Finish the job? Even though there is no definate number of Iraqi civilians killed during operation Iraqi freedom, the consensus is that number is hundreds of thousands. No biggie right, except of course the growing hundreds of thousands of enemies we make as that civilian death count racks up. Fathers that have lost their sons, sons that have lost their fathers etc etc....... their hatred, resentment and hostility will keep spreading. This is just going to turn out to be a 10+ year war whether we like it or not.

We are at a point where running from it will occomplish nothing and staying and fighting, well, is accomplishing nothing.

 

[Swamp Fox]

So we stay and fight? Finish the job? Even though there is no definate number of Iraqi civilians killed during operation Iraqi freedom, the consensus is that number is hundreds of thousands. No biggie right, except of course the growing hundreds of thousands of enemies we make as that civilian death count racks up. Fathers that have lost their sons, sons that have lost their fathers etc etc....... their hatred, resentment and hostility will keep spreading. This is just going to turn out to be a 10+ year war whether we like it or not.

We are at a point where running from it will occomplish nothing and staying and fighting, well, is accomplishing nothing.

Those Iraqis that are enjoying their freedom now might disagree with you on us accomplishing nothing. And the consensus is that the hundreds of thousands number is BS, some think tank extrapolated the number based on data from 10 years ago. True numbers are a lot lower.

 

[rayboyusmc]

My guess is that the libs don't care what happens in Iraq, just like they didn't care what happened to the Vietnamese after we left or to the Somalis after we left

Yeah, you conservatives are the only real patriots and heroes. What a fucking joke. They can't even define what the fuck victory would be, so I guess we just stay forever.

I love the strength of your argument. If someone doesn't agree with you thery are a candy ass.

I would tell you to kiss my candy ass, but you being from swamp..........

 

[Swamp Fox]

Yeah, you conservatives are the only real patriots and heroes. What a fucking joke. They can't even define what the fuck victory would be, so I guess we just stay forever.

Well, we know running away with out tails between our legs isn't victory, despite what libs think.

I love the strength of your argument. If someone doesn't agree with you thery are a candy ass.

Not everyone, just you...................oh, and Taoman.

I would tell you to kiss my candy ass, but you being from swamp..........

You'd enjoy it too much. Didn't know they let queers in the Marines.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

There will be a repeat of history in Iraq if Hillary and Obama have their way. They will cut and run just like Billy did from Somalia and leave a bigger mess then before.

Silly analysis, reputable only to those with closed minds possessing hyper partisan views. Ronald Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after 200 Marines perished after the barracks bombing attack.

Does that make the Gipper a cut and runner?

The short answer is no, it does not.

Through Regan's memoirs do we learn the reason Washington withdrew. His reasoning for pulling out was obvious, rational and more importantly the right choice. Reagan decided it was better to skin out of town then stay among the wackos. Reagan argued the Arabs were just too crazy and too irrational to deal with.

He never would have let something like an Iraq war happen. He knew the volatility of the region and correctly predicted the implications of a greater US military presence. Now, I don't agree with Regan that all Arab Muslims are crazy or irrational, however thats beside the point.

Reagan had the foresight, at that moment in history, to estimate further American intervention in Lebanon could lead to a needless calamity in the Arab part of the world.

Reagan never would have invaded Iraq. And he most certainly wasn't a 'cut and runner', or whatever the latest media buzz word that you latched onto calls it.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Silly analysis, reputable only to those with closed minds possessing hyper partisan views. Ronald Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after 200 Marines perished after the barracks bombing attack.

Does that make the Gipper a cut and runner?

The short answer is no, it does not.

Through Regan's memoirs do we learn the reason Washington withdrew. His reasoning for pulling out was obvious, rational and more importantly the right choice. Reagan decided it was better to skin out of town then stay among the wackos. Reagan argued the Arabs were just too crazy and too irrational to deal with.

He never would have let something like an Iraq war happen. He knew the volatility of the region and correctly predicted the implications of a greater US military presence. Now, I don't agree with Regan that all Arab Muslims are crazy or irrational, however thats beside the point.

Reagan had the foresight, at that moment in history, to estimate further American intervention in Lebanon could lead to a needless calamity in the Arab part of the world.

Reagan never would have invaded Iraq. And he most certainly wasn't a 'cut and runner', or whatever the latest media buzz word that you latched onto calls it.

I would have to disagree. Reagan shouldn't have left Beirut after the bombing. Having served in the Middle East and studied the culture, they respect strength. If someone bombs you, you bomb them back harder. Then you can leave after showing your strength and you will still be respected. If you leave after getting injured without retaliation, you lose respect, standing and that makes it harder to obtain respect later.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Originally Posted by rayboyusmc
Yeah, you conservatives are the only real patriots and heroes. What a fucking joke. They can't even define what the fuck victory would be, so I guess we just stay forever.

Well, we know running away with out tails between our legs isn't victory, despite what libs think.

But staying there with no real plan for success is really smart. People with brains realize that when a mistake is made, at some point you have to realize this and adjust your planning, YSMF


Quote:
Originally Posted by rayboyusmc
I love the strength of your argument. If someone doesn't agree with you thery are a candy ass.

Not everyone, just you...................oh, and Taoman.

More like 70% of the American people, Swampy. You are in the minority. But as the only true patriots who see the light, you know you are right- duh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rayboyusmc
I would tell you to kiss my candy ass, but you being from swamp..........

You'd enjoy it too much. Didn't know they let queers in the Marines.

Actually they let gays in the military for quite some time. I don't know if you were in the Military, but if you were, you probably showered with them and I will assume that none of them approached you. Some of those "queers" are dying for this country right now while you sit here and badmouth them.

Such a dumb fucking reply is indicative of the strength of your argument.

What is it with folks like you who can't disagree with other Americans without sinking to your level of slimey name calling?

OH, OH, he must be a queer because he doesn't agree with me.

Added to post.

 

[Gunny]

Added to post.

More like that 70% disapprove of how the war is being conducted, not the war itself.

65% believe the US has an obligation to establish a level of stability and security prior to leaving Iraq. 32% say no.

Less than 20% say we should leave Iraq immediately.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/104977/Americans-Concerned-About-Impact-Leaving-Iraq.aspx

Guess that makes you part of 32% or less than 20% -- whichever you prefer -- not 70%.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Rayray,
The plan is to continue to work on the security situation, to work on the government and to get things right. YOU and your ilk just don't like that plan because it involves time and patience, both of which seem to be in short supply.

As I've said before, it took from 1776 to 1789 for the Constitution to be created and put into operation. That's 13 years for a group of guys who were working towrds the same goal.

The Iraqis have lived under Saddam for 30 years while he has pitted them against each other in order to keep himself in power. They don't trust each other and don't like each other and they've managed to write a constitution and put a government into place in under 5 years. Maybe you could cut them a little slack and wait.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

Rayray,
The plan is to continue to work on the security situation, to work on the government and to get things right. YOU and your ilk just don't like that plan because it involves time and patience, both of which seem to be in short supply.

As I've said before, it took from 1776 to 1789 for the Constitution to be created and put into operation. That's 13 years for a group of guys who were working towrds the same goal.

The Iraqis have lived under Saddam for 30 years while he has pitted them against each other in order to keep himself in power. They don't trust each other and don't like each other and they've managed to write a constitution and put a government into place in under 5 years. Maybe you could cut them a little slack and wait.

Wow. Just when I thought discourse on this site couldn't get more idiotic.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Wow. Just when I thought discourse on this site couldn't get more idiotic.

I kow, your mere presence dumbs this site down at least a 100 IQ points. It goes even farther down if you and maineman are on at the same time.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yup, remind me how long we were in Germany and Japan running their Government after WW2, with no fighting to contend with, no terrorists and no neighboring state working actively to destabilize those Governments. No armed militias and lunatics with private armies.

But we should have solved all Iraq's problems in a couple weeks.

 

[TheGoodShepherd]

I kow, your mere presence dumbs this site down at least a 100 IQ points. It goes even farther down if you and maineman are on at the same time.

All you ever do in 99 per cent of your posts is label, insult or pathetically try to marginalize another poster.

You did it in the above post and you did it with the " you and your ilk" crap.

There's a very simple reason why you resort to to such tactics - because you cannot offer substance.