Will Paul voters fall in line?

[dblack]

Barack Obama thanks you for your support.

As has been shown repeatedly, this view is irrational, childish nonsense - and it's crippling our democratic process.

No one ever shows it, they just make that statement and expect everyone to agree with it.

I did. Three or four times. Not voting for Romney isn't supporting Obama.
Any more than not voting for Obama is supporting Romney.

Is it really impossible for you understand being oppossed to both of them?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The differences are insignificant and not worth sacrificing an opportunity to support real change.

Nonsense. Real change starts at the bottom not the top.

Let's pretend just for a moment that a Ron Paul became president. Without several hundred more Ron Pauls in congress his entire presidency would be a lame duck.

You seek change you HAVE TO START AT THE BOTTOM. When will you idealists realize this? Or do you really believe congress is going to sit by and let one man strip them of their power?

Not sure what point you think you're making. We're quite aware of all this, which is why we're not particularly worried that Paul won't win. It's why we're focusing instead on gaining control of the party apparatus. You're preaching to the choir, Gramps!

But none of that argues for supporting Romney. The opposite, actually.

My point is that the stupidity of the people that refuse to participate because their man isn't viable. They focus on the wrong individual. Change starts at the local level through congress. Sittin at home on election night bragging about standing firm on your principles changes nothing nor does it accomplish anything.

 

[dblack]

He is not a mirror image of Obama.

The differences are insignificant and not worth sacrificing an opportunity to support real change.

Garbage. You think a SCOTUS appointment is insignificant? You think lowering taxes on job producers is insignificant? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe Romney's ideology is fundamentally different from Obama's. His choices would be likewise.

 

[PredFan]

No candidate is idea, but what you are going to do is give a vote to a mirror image of obama.

He is not a mirror image of Obama.

Right sure he isn't.
Pro gay marriage
pro romney care
anti gun
Three big issues that will never allow me to vote for Romney.

The same with you. You keep showing the similarities and ignoring the significant differences. Romney says he will repeal Obamacare, what evidence do you have that he won't?

How do you figure that Romnyey is anti-gun? What evidence do you have of that?

Do you think that a Romney appointment to the SCOTUS will be as liberal as an Obama one? Do you not understand what it will do to us Conservatives if Obama gets to make a SCOTUS appointment?

 

[PredFan]

My better plan is letting the GOP see what it stands to lose by alienating liberty minded issues. Since I only see any actual difference between Obama and Romney as about as insignificant as possible, I see something to be gained by Romney losing...the GOP taking its medicine and being forced to accept real freedom based ideals into their governing.

Not a good plan. You would trash the country to teach the GOP a lesson. I will not. Many Libertarians did this back in 2008, so did quite a few of the Religious Right who hated McCain. Did it do anything at all to change the GOP? NO. So what exactly do you think will happen? If Obama gets a 2nd term the GOP will move more and more to the center to try to win. You will accomplish nothing, and the country will suffer because of it.

The only time the GOP ever moves to the right is during campaigns. They NEVER stay there, though. They go center, and so do the dems. Each have their own little problems but for the most part they both stay pretty centered overall. The PROBLEM though, is that they're both corporatist and the issues they actually DO differ on are insignificant. The issues they are the same on are the most important issues to you and I.

We get nothing good with either one.

Never said we'd get anything good. I'm only looking for less bad.

 

[dblack]

When the GOP loses an election, they ALWAYS move more to the center and away from freedom and liberty. Always.

Sorry. I lived through the Bush fiasco. So, no.

 

[PredFan]

The last time we were faced with either continuing to go the route of democrat, or picking the "conservative", Bush was elected to go the conservative route, and what a massive mistake that was.

I don't trust the establishment. They've given me zero reason to. There's a certain agenda that this country is under the thumb of, and it seems as though the power brokers have it all set up exactly how they like it so that regardless if we choose the democrat or the republican, they still win and we still lose.

I decided long ago that I'm not falling for that shit anymore. Seems like since Paul's run in 2008, about 400% more people have decided the same thing.

The only thing about bush was that he repeal Clinton's gun ban, Gore would not have done that.

I didn't mean we should have gone Gore though. My point is that this whole 2 choices and ONLY 2 choices shit is crippling this nation.

And I don't disagree at all. That is why I work hard to get the LP message out.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The differences are insignificant and not worth sacrificing an opportunity to support real change.

Garbage. You think a SCOTUS appointment is insignificant? You think lowering taxes on job producers is insignificant? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe Romney's ideology is fundamentally different from Obama's. His choices would be likewise.

I didn't really see you as a dishonest person till this post. You're trying so hard to justify your position that your statements are becoming ridiculous.

 

[PredFan]

Not a good plan. You would trash the country to teach the GOP a lesson. I will not. Many Libertarians did this back in 2008, so did quite a few of the Religious Right who hated McCain. Did it do anything at all to change the GOP? NO. So what exactly do you think will happen? If Obama gets a 2nd term the GOP will move more and more to the center to try to win. You will accomplish nothing, and the country will suffer because of it.

Empty scare tactics. What are you imagining would be different if McCain had won? Nothing that matters.

1. McCain would not have allowed Obamacare, and the Dems probably wouldn't have even tried it.
2. McCain would have pushed for drilling in Anwar and allowed the Keystone Pipeline to be built.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any more, but the first one is reason enough.

 

[PredFan]

Instead of all this pouting because we didn't get Ron Paul, try this:

Vote Libertarian in all of the primaries. Then vote for the most conservative candidate in the general election. In the meantime, sing the praises of the LP platform and it's candidates. This kind of approach can work and has been working. We can help keep the liberals and their destructive policies at bay while promoting the LP platform and it's candidates. Who do you think we have a better chance of changing? The GOP or the Democrats? Ron Paul obviously thinks its the GOP.

What good is it for us to be promoting LP candidates in 2014 if Obama and the Democrats have put us in a place that not even a LP President could get us out of?

It has nothing to do with pouting dumb ass, It has everything to do with I see Romney I see obama.

Then you aren't paying attention.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You're a libertarian. Romney will do NOTHING to roll back the assault on personal liberties in this country over the last 10 or 15 years.

Gay Americans would certainly disagree with you on that. Women as well. Both realized either the reaffirmation of their personal liberties (for women, Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992)) or the acknowledgement of their personal liberties (for gay Americans, Romer v. Evans (1996), Lawrence v. Texas (2003)).

And in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (2004), the Court upheld the due process rights of Americans detained as ‘enemy combatants.’

In your personal, subjective opinion you likely perceive an ‘assault on personal liberties in this country,’ but the objective facts and evidence simply don’t bear that out.

 

[PredFan]

Instead of all this pouting because we didn't get Ron Paul, try this:

Vote Libertarian in all of the primaries. Then vote for the most conservative candidate in the general election. In the meantime, sing the praises of the LP platform and it's candidates. This kind of approach can work and has been working. We can help keep the liberals and their destructive policies at bay while promoting the LP platform and it's candidates. Who do you think we have a better chance of changing? The GOP or the Democrats? Ron Paul obviously thinks its the GOP.

What good is it for us to be promoting LP candidates in 2014 if Obama and the Democrats have put us in a place that not even a LP President could get us out of?

there will be no conservative in either of the main parties for the general election

One is certainly more conservative than the other.

 

[dblack]

Nonsense. Real change starts at the bottom not the top.

Let's pretend just for a moment that a Ron Paul became president. Without several hundred more Ron Pauls in congress his entire presidency would be a lame duck.

You seek change you HAVE TO START AT THE BOTTOM. When will you idealists realize this? Or do you really believe congress is going to sit by and let one man strip them of their power?

Not sure what point you think you're making. We're quite aware of all this, which is why we're not particularly worried that Paul won't win. It's why we're focusing instead on gaining control of the party apparatus. You're preaching to the choir, Gramps!

But none of that argues for supporting Romney. The opposite, actually.

My point is that the stupidity of the people that refuse to participate because their man isn't viable. They focus on the wrong individual. Change starts at the local level through congress. Sittin at home on election night bragging about standing firm on your principles changes nothing nor does it accomplish anything.

Then you're simply misunderstanding what's going on. It isn't about Paul. It's not a cult of personality. And the last thing we're doing is "refusing to participate".

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Not sure what point you think you're making. We're quite aware of all this, which is why we're not particularly worried that Paul won't win. It's why we're focusing instead on gaining control of the party apparatus. You're preaching to the choir, Gramps!

But none of that argues for supporting Romney. The opposite, actually.

My point is that the stupidity of the people that refuse to participate because their man isn't viable. They focus on the wrong individual. Change starts at the local level through congress. Sittin at home on election night bragging about standing firm on your principles changes nothing nor does it accomplish anything.

Then you're simply misunderstanding what's going on. It isn't about Paul. It's not a cult of personality. And the last thing we're doing is "refusing to participate".

How do you possibly expect to enact change when you're voice isn't represented because you consistently vote for candidates who hold no power?

 

[PredFan]

As has been shown repeatedly, this view is irrational, childish nonsense - and it's crippling our democratic process.

No one ever shows it, they just make that statement and expect everyone to agree with it.

I did. Three or four times. Not voting for Romney isn't supporting Obama.
Any more than not voting for Obama is supporting Romney.

Is it really impossible for you understand being oppossed to both of them?

Yeah, that's how everyone "shows it" by just restating it.

I understand being opposed to both of them, I was opposed to Romney all the way up to the point when Ron Paul exited the race.

 

[PredFan]

The differences are insignificant and not worth sacrificing an opportunity to support real change.

Garbage. You think a SCOTUS appointment is insignificant? You think lowering taxes on job producers is insignificant? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe Romney's ideology is fundamentally different from Obama's. His choices would be likewise.

Now you're just being stubborn.

 

[PredFan]

When the GOP loses an election, they ALWAYS move more to the center and away from freedom and liberty. Always.

Sorry. I lived through the Bush fiasco. So, no.

The GOP and Bush lost? I'll have to check my history book on that one.

 

[PredFan]

Garbage. You think a SCOTUS appointment is insignificant? You think lowering taxes on job producers is insignificant? Don't be ridiculous.

I don't believe Romney's ideology is fundamentally different from Obama's. His choices would be likewise.

I didn't really see you as a dishonest person till this post. You're trying so hard to justify your position that your statements are becoming ridiculous.

He's being stubborn.

 

[dblack]

Not a good plan. You would trash the country to teach the GOP a lesson. I will not. Many Libertarians did this back in 2008, so did quite a few of the Religious Right who hated McCain. Did it do anything at all to change the GOP? NO. So what exactly do you think will happen? If Obama gets a 2nd term the GOP will move more and more to the center to try to win. You will accomplish nothing, and the country will suffer because of it.

Empty scare tactics. What are you imagining would be different if McCain had won? Nothing that matters.

1. McCain would not have allowed Obamacare, and the Dems probably wouldn't have even tried it.
2. McCain would have pushed for drilling in Anwar and allowed the Keystone Pipeline to be built.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any more, but the first one is reason enough.

It's also highly suspect. As many have pointed out, PPACA was Republican inspired. I seriously doubt things would have played out differently with McCain at the helm. Except the roles would have been reversed, with the dems opposing.

 

[dblack]

My point is that the stupidity of the people that refuse to participate because their man isn't viable. They focus on the wrong individual. Change starts at the local level through congress. Sittin at home on election night bragging about standing firm on your principles changes nothing nor does it accomplish anything.

Then you're simply misunderstanding what's going on. It isn't about Paul. It's not a cult of personality. And the last thing we're doing is "refusing to participate".

How do you possibly expect to enact change when you're voice isn't represented because you consistently vote for candidates who hold no power?

That's the only way change will happen. By making it clear they won't get our votes with the same old bullshit. As long you continue voting for the status quo, that's all you're going to get.