Will Harper ever visit Turkey?

[Ropey]

The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harper’s time as official Opposition leader.

During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian community’s claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.

Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.

But, according to Turkey, Canada’s Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.

Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.

In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.

But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.

Mr. Harper’s “wrong and unfair” judgment was based on “one-sided information” that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.

The government’s position was also “based on narrow political calculations” and “dealt a blow to these efforts,” the statement declared.

Rafet Akgunay, Turkey’s ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.

“I don’t want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey I’m sure my authorities would consider it accordingly,” Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.

But he described Mr. Harper’s genocide position as a “major obstacle” standing in the way of improved relations.

Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.

Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.

Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.

Like they did to the Armenians.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.

It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then. Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel

 

[Sunni Man]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?

The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.

What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?

 

[Ropey]

They weren't very nice to the Bulgarians either.

It might be worth noting that the Government of Turkey is quite a different animal than it was back then. Blaming the nation Turkey as the same as the Ottoman government is a bit of blood libel

This is not about blame. It is about human expiation of wrongs and genocide is considered one of the greatest crimes against man. Armenia demands recognition for what was done to them as a people.

Turkey pretends that they didn't slaughter the entire Armenian population of Anatolian Turkey.

They are all gone. Turkey thinks they walked away?

 

[Jroc]

Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.

 

[Ropey]

Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.

Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harper’s time as official Opposition leader.

During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian community’s claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.

Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.

But, according to Turkey, Canada’s Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.

Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.

In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.

But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.

Mr. Harper’s “wrong and unfair” judgment was based on “one-sided information” that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.

The government’s position was also “based on narrow political calculations” and “dealt a blow to these efforts,” the statement declared.

Rafet Akgunay, Turkey’s ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.

“I don’t want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey I’m sure my authorities would consider it accordingly,” Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.

But he described Mr. Harper’s genocide position as a “major obstacle” standing in the way of improved relations.

Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.

Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.

Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.

Like they did to the Armenians.

Turkey did NOT exist in 1915. How can a Country be responsible for actions taken BEFORE they ever existed?

 

[Ropey]

Turkey was created by genoicide of the Armenians and theft of their country.

Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.

Go figure?

 

[Jroc]

Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.

Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?

I guess I was answering the question of what Harper should do, not what he will do, what's the problem?

 

[Jos]

Turkey was created by genocide of the Armenians and theft of their country.

Of course it didn't exist. The Armenians of the land now called Anatolian Turkey and the land that was called Armenia is now tiny because the land now called Turkey is full of Turks and no Armenians.

Go figure?

Lead by the young Turks, IE the Jewish movement

 

[PoliticalChic]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?

The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.

What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?

Better relations with Turkey, which would allow Turkey to possibly join with Azerbaijan.
Azerbaijan is peopled by Turkic folk, and has suffered a loss in war with Armenia...
Azerbaijian would love to get out of Russia's sphere...

Azerbaijan has significant energy supplies and would be a springboard for Turkish influence in Central Asia.

If you look at a map, you will see Armenia between Turkey and Azerbaijian.

 

[Ropey]

Turkey will never take blame for what happened. Anyway, now they are busy killing Syrians who are fleeing the Assad government, actually I think we should be doing more to help Syrians get rid of Assad instead of worrying about Libya. Assad was building an alliance with Iran and Turkey, Turkey is up to no good and Harper should not go there while Turkey is working with Iran.

Did you read more than the first few lines of the OP?

I guess I was answering the question of what Harper should do, not what he will do, what's the problem?

No problem Jroc. Just that what you said he should do is pretty much what he is doing.

 

[ekrem]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?

The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.

What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?

Neither Mr. Harper nor Canada play a role in considerations of political Ankara when it comes to daily political business.
Same with Turkish people's daily life.
Turkey is doing glorious without Harper and Canada.

There is no shortage in partners who want to cooperate and enhance relations for the benefit of the involved parties. It's not us who looses weight in the changing world.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey did NOT exist in 1915. How can a Country be responsible for actions taken BEFORE they ever existed?

According to Prof. Justin McCarthy about 5.5 Million Ottoman Muslims where ethnically cleansed out of conflict during 1821-1922.
LINK: Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 :: Reviewed by Daniel Pipes

Yet, you do not hear any Turks whining about this.

The Armenians revolted against the Ottomans, supported by the outside power Russia. Both Orthodox. Same has happened in the Ottoman provinces of the Balkans before World-War1 (e.g. Greeks, Bulgarians).


The Russians supported the Armenians to prepare the Caucasus-Front of WW1:
Battle of Sarikamish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Armenians terrorized the Ottomans in the Caucasus (Eastern Anatolia) to further the goals of the approaching Russian Army. The Ottomans implemented anti-terrorism measures, which was relocation of the revolting Armenians into Syrian desert. Away from the conflict-zone with Russia. All whilst Turks were fighting from Gallipoli to Yemen.

 

[tinydancer]

If I could wish one thing, it would be for countries and peoples to admit the horrific deeds of the past and then ALL of us could move on.

Sadly I don't believe this is going to happen. I have Romeo D'Aillaire up here freaking mouthing off to the Harper government all the time.

Romeo, freaking Romeo who listened to Kofi to stand down and allow the Rwandan genocide to happen.

I mean holy shit. I want to choke the crap out of the dude everytime he speaks. He actually listened to Kofi (who ended getting promoted to the head of the UN for this genocidal moment) because Kofi told him to stand down.

 

[Sallow]

I've been to Turkey.

Nice place. Lovely people.

Istanbul is a beautiful city.

 

[tinydancer]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about?

The alleged genocide took place a hundred years ago.

What would the Armenians gain if the Turkish government acknowledged that it happened?

Neither Mr. Harper nor Canada play a role in considerations of political Ankara when it comes to daily political business.
Same with Turkish people's daily life.
Turkey is doing glorious without Harper and Canada.

There is no shortage in partners who want to cooperate and enhance relations for the benefit of the involved parties. It's not us who looses weight in the changing world.

Turkey is constantly being feted on Jeanne Becker's fashion TV. Just amazing runway shows. Turkey is an important trading partner. And in more than fashion.

What are you talking about? Turkey has been an associate with Canada in many efforts. Harper just wants Turkish officials to admit the Armenian genocide.

This is no big smurf here. It's diplomatic dipshits at their finest going "oh what Armenians?"

Admit and move on.

Oh and by the way, want to provide the link that proves we don't trade with Turkey?

One thing I really hate is to prove someone is a complete liar or idiot on line.

Wait for my next post. Sorry, but you asked for this.

 

[tinydancer]

I've been to Turkey.

Nice place. Lovely people.

Istanbul is a beautiful city.

Is it as wonderous as I've been told? I've heard that you can literally smell coffee upon coffee smells. It's like a layer of aroma that embraces the city in the morning.

I know Istanbul from Fashion TV....yes I'm a camo girl but it doesn't mean I still don't love my old days of Vogue and Mary Quant.

 

[tinydancer]

Now lets deal with the absolute lie that Canada does not trade with Turkey. I get so sick and tired of morons who post lies and absolute lies without getting smacked upside the head.

Knuckle sandwich coming you moron who posted that Canada does not trade with Turkey.

Canada-Turkey Relations
Fact Sheet | PDF * (135 KB)
Political Relations
Canada and Turkey have longstanding diplomatic relations. In 1947, Canada appointed its first resident Ambassador to Turkey, while Turkey opened a resident Embassy in Ottawa in 1944. In recent years as friends and allies, Canada and Turkey have expanded the depth and variety of their bilateral links as valued political, commercial, strategic, and security partners. In 2009, these links were further strengthened by a number of new initiatives, including the inauguration of direct flights between Toronto and Istanbul and the signing of an agreement to avoid double taxation.

Multilateral cooperation has grown through links in NATO, the United Nations and its agencies, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, and the Council of Europe. Through these shared ties, Canada and Turkey are working together toward our common goal of promoting peace and stability throughout Europe and Central Asia.

Military Cooperation
Turkey and Canada's Armed Forces have enjoyed a longstanding cooperation. They are both committed to defending democratic values and global security within the frame work of international cooperation and security. Both military forces are excellent partners in the multilateral sphere and work together well within the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). This has again been recently demonstrated through close Canadian and Turkish cooperation as major contributors to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan.

Trade
Canada has a relatively strong commercial relationship with Turkey — the world's 17th largest economy, a G-20 member, and the third most populous nation in Europe (71.9 million) after Germany and Russia. Given its strategic geographic location and negotiated trade agreements, Turkey offers excellent access to markets in Europe (including preferential Customs Union access to the European Union), the Caucasus, Central Asia, and the Middle East.

Canada-Turkey bilateral merchandise trade has almost doubled in the last five years, reaching $1.9 billion in 2008. Canadian exports to Turkey reached $1.2 billion in 2008, with a product mix ranging from commodities to advanced technology goods. These included approximately $330 million worth of agricultural goods. Turkey is Canada's 22nd largest merchandise export market and the 45th largest source of merchandise imports.

Investment
In recent years, Turkey has been one of the top global destinations for Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). Many Canadian companies have recognized the great investment potential Turkey offers. Canadian investments in Turkey stood at about $1.1 billion in 2009 and Export Development Canada has identified the country as a strategic market of opportunity for Canadian firms.

Niche opportunities exist for Canadian investors, particularly in the energy, information and communication technologies, mining, environment, and agriculture/agri-food sectors. Commercial opportunities in Turkey match Canadian supply capabilities.

Last updated: November 2009

I hate liars.

 

[Ropey]

harper just wants turkish officials to admit the armenian genocide.

This is no big smurf here. It's diplomatic dipshits at their finest going "oh what armenians?"

admit and move on.

+2

Now lets deal with the absolute lie that Canada does not trade with Turkey.

Who is saying that Canada does not trade with Turkey?

Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.

But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.