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And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye.
Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.
Hmm..
So all countries that deal with minorities the same way should apologize? Or be responsible for all acts taken by their country even prior to their modern governments? Or should they return the land to people that were previously living on it?
Or are those conditions laid out just for Turkey and not anyone else?
The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
Like they did to the Armenians.
The idea of a Harper visit to Turkey is fraught with domestic and foreign policy sensitivities due to decisions dating back to Mr. Harpers time as official Opposition leader.
During that period he embraced the politically active Armenian-Canadian communitys claim that atrocities committed against their community in Ottoman Turkey starting in 1915 constituted genocide.
Plenty of politicians around the world have responded to the Armenian lobby effort, resulting in some 20 legislatures in various countries passing motions recognizing that genocide took place. Among them was the Canadian Senate, in 2002, and the House of Commons two years later.
But, according to Turkey, Canadas Conservative government is the only one in the world to officially embrace the genocide narrative as official government policy.
Turkey objected furiously in 2006 when Mr. Harper formally stated the new policy, but some diplomats said a thaw had started to develop prior to the 2011 election campaign.
In April of 2010, for instance, Mr. Harper issued no statement to the general public to mark the anniversary of the tragedy. And recent high-level visits include a 2009 trip to Turkey by Lawrence Cannon, then minister of foreign affairs, and another last year by Defence Minister Peter MacKay.
Furthermore, Export Development Canada has just announced the opening of a regional office in Istanbul to help Canadian exporters break into the relatively thriving regional market, and there have been preliminary talks on possible free trade negotiations.
But then Mr. Harper issued an election campaign statement on the genocide, almost identical to the 2006 declaration, that got almost no mainstream media coverage in Canada but deeply angered Turkey.
Mr. Harpers wrong and unfair judgment was based on one-sided information that came after a number of initiatives to improve relations, said an April 27 statement from the Turkish foreign ministry.
The governments position was also based on narrow political calculations and dealt a blow to these efforts, the statement declared.
Rafet Akgunay, Turkeys ambassador to Canada and a former senior foreign policy adviser to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said there has never been a discussion initiated by either government regarding a possible Harper visit.
I dont want to comment on such assumptions. If he wants to visit Turkey Im sure my authorities would consider it accordingly, Mr. Akgunay told Postmedia News.
But he described Mr. Harpers genocide position as a major obstacle standing in the way of improved relations.
Harper hasn't visited Iran, Venezuela, Pakistan or North Korea either. Ignoring historical fact (genocide) and abandoning principles to garner favour with burgeoning economies is the Obama way, not Harper's.
Turkey wants to run from the Genocide it performed on the Armenians. Now they do the same to the Kurds. If another great war comes, they will do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians.
Now they are just killing them when they can. In a great war, it will be rounding them up, forced marches and mass murders.
Like they did to the Armenians.
And when they deal with their past genocide of the Armenians AND stop trying to genocide their Kurds AND deal with their minority issues in an un-Islamic way (killing them) AND THEN possibly Harper will stop the demands for them to stand like men and not crawl like others here who wish to turn a blind eye.
Harper does not wish to turn that blind eye.
Hmm..
So all countries that deal with minorities the same way should apologize? Or be responsible for all acts taken by their country even prior to their modern governments? Or should they return the land to people that were previously living on it?
Or are those conditions laid out just for Turkey and not anyone else?
It's what this thread is about.
Create threads for the countries you wish to have address their past. Or create a thread about all genocides perpetrated in history or the modern era if you wish.
This is not that thread.
Before 1900 there was no Turkey! But there was a huge Ottoman Empire with the caliphate seated in Istanbul.
Damn you're stupid.
Map of Turkey in the 1800's
So, they called the Empire the Turkish-Ottoman Empire. Turkey has been around for many thousands of years.
In any case it's a little more then hypocritical for an Israeli to talk about Turkey's past transgressions given their past. And it's off the scale for an American or Canadian to do that.
Turkey condemns Canada's genocide vote
In any case it's a little more then hypocritical for an Israeli to talk about Turkey's past transgressions given their past. And it's off the scale for an American or Canadian to do that.
Look at that picture Sallow.
I've seen many more. Don't tell me that I don't have the right to point out the Armenian genocide. Well, if you do, then you are really lost.
You just want it to go away maybe?
You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.
There have many many many genocides. There's one on-going in the Sudan. Very few people are doing anything about that. Same as the Congo..or any number of places.
You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.
And you are clear in your view that because others genocide that they should just be allowed and you favor turning a blind eye.
I say no. You say yes.
We are at an impasse. I will agree to disagree with you.
Regardless of us "Never Again" folks.
Most Armenians say the genocide began on April 24th 1915 when approximately 250 Armenian intellectuals in Istanbul were rounded up by Turkish authorities and deported. The Turks began World War I by waging a disastrous campaign against the Russians in the Caucasus. They blamed the Armenians for defeat by conspiring against them.
Among other things, Turkish doctors injected morphine into Armenian children, learning that an overdose of morphine leads to death. Typhoid inoculation destroyed childrens health. Children were forced onto boats and thrown overboard into the Black Sea to drown. Armenians were marched from their homes and their lands were taken. Mass burnings of Armenian villages occurred. Mass deportations forced most Armenians out of the Ottoman Empire.
By 1917 the Armenian Problem had been resolved. Muslim families were brought in to occupy empty villages.
Today, only 3 million of the worlds 11 million Armenians live in Armenia. To add insult to injury, for the past 16 years Turkey has been enacting economic sanctions against Armenia, crippling its economy. Only 21 countries in the world recognize the genocide. The U.S. does not officially recognize it because it does not want to anger Turkey, a key ally in the war on terrorism and a strategic basing center for U.S. troops leftover from the Cold War.
Outside witnesses: Both Germans and Americans inside the Ottoman Empire witnessed the genocide. At the time Germany was a war ally and America was neutral. German officials who were able to visit Turkey, saw what happened and were able to document the atrocities; that is where some of the pictures come from. U.S. missionaries, who helped set up schools in Turkey for Armenians, were also witnesses to the genocide. Next to U.S. consuls, they became the second-most important group of witnesses of the Armenian Genocide.
Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
It's clear, even if those who support Turkey's non-address of the genocide of its Empiric thrust.
Most Armenians say the genocide began on April 24th 1915 when approximately 250 Armenian intellectuals in Istanbul were rounded up by Turkish authorities and deported. The Turks began World War I by waging a disastrous campaign against the Russians in the Caucasus. They blamed the Armenians for defeat by conspiring against them.
Among other things, Turkish doctors injected morphine into Armenian children, learning that an overdose of morphine leads to death. Typhoid inoculation destroyed childrens health. Children were forced onto boats and thrown overboard into the Black Sea to drown. Armenians were marched from their homes and their lands were taken. Mass burnings of Armenian villages occurred. Mass deportations forced most Armenians out of the Ottoman Empire.
By 1917 the Armenian Problem had been resolved. Muslim families were brought in to occupy empty villages.
Today, only 3 million of the worlds 11 million Armenians live in Armenia. To add insult to injury, for the past 16 years Turkey has been enacting economic sanctions against Armenia, crippling its economy. Only 21 countries in the world recognize the genocide. The U.S. does not officially recognize it because it does not want to anger Turkey, a key ally in the war on terrorism and a strategic basing center for U.S. troops leftover from the Cold War.
Outside witnesses: Both Germans and Americans inside the Ottoman Empire witnessed the genocide. At the time Germany was a war ally and America was neutral. German officials who were able to visit Turkey, saw what happened and were able to document the atrocities; that is where some of the pictures come from. U.S. missionaries, who helped set up schools in Turkey for Armenians, were also witnesses to the genocide. Next to U.S. consuls, they became the second-most important group of witnesses of the Armenian Genocide.
The Armenian genocide « Abagond
This is the same thing Saddam Hussein did in the 1980s when he evicted Kurds from their homes in Mosul, Kirkuk and other cities in the North and re-populated them with Arabs. In Sudan they have been also doing this for decades, more recently with the Nuba people.
Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one.
Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.
You "Never Again" folks seem very concerned about embarrassing people you don't like..and less concerned about the actual "Never Again" thing.
And you are clear in your view that because others genocide that they should just be allowed and you favor turning a blind eye.
I say no. You say yes.
We are at an impasse. I will agree to disagree with you.
Regardless of us "Never Again" folks.
I don't favor turning a blind eye to any genocide. I was very pleased about what happened in the Balkans. I think the US should be bombing the crap out of Janjaweed supply lines. I also believe in intervention to stop any ongoing Genocide.
Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
Mystery has surrounded the reported arrest of two Israelis in Jordan who allegedly smuggled weapons to rebels in Sudan's troubled Darfur region.
According to a Thursday report in the London-based Arabic-daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, Jordanian intelligence arrested the pair a few days ago. The two, who were not identified, reportedly told them that Sudanese rebels had also undergone military training in Israel. Quoting unnamed senior Jordanian intelligence sources, the report said one of the suspects admitted to being a "close associate" of the younger son of Danny Yatom, a Labor MK and former Mossad chief. The paper also said that the two Israelis gave details to their interrogators of where the Sudanese rebels would rendezvous with them in Sudan and where they underwent training in Israel, the pan-Arab Saudi newspaper reported. They said that the two belonged to an Israeli arms-smuggling network which included Shimon Naor and Amos Golan, two businessmen involved in arms sales and military training. Rachel Shani, a spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry, said that Israel's ambassador to Jordan had made inquires with Jordanian officials about the report. "He asked the authorities there and they told him they had no knowledge of any Israelis having been arrested recently," Shani said. "We are familiar with the reports. The whole story seems strange." She also said they had not received any report of missing Israelis in Jordan. The reports come as Israel is joining US Jewish groups in sending humanitarian aid to Sudan's war-torn Darfur region. Israel has no diplomatic ties with the Muslim country south of Egypt where Arab militias known as the Janjaweed are killing tens of thousands of black Muslims in Darfur in a campaign of ethnic cleansing and genocide. The two Israelis mentioned in the report are well-known in Israeli security circles. Naor, a Romanian-born former officer in the Israeli Navy, has been involved in dubious weapons deals. He was arrested in Romania in 1999 on charges he sold weapons to Nigeria and Eritrea in violation of EU embargoes on African trouble spots. He was released on bail and fled to Israel. But a Romanian court subsequently sentenced him to seven years in prison. He could not be reached for comment. Golan runs Silver Shadow, a reputable company involved in security training. Golan, 50, is a former deputy commander of an anti-terror unit and retired from the IDF nine years ago with the rank of lieutenant-colonel. His partner, Nitzan Nadel, said he was currently in the United States and unavailable for comment.
Where's Israel on that? They sending anyone in to stop anything?
Create a thread about it and ask rather than hijack this one.
Well, continue if you wish. I will simply use the broken record technique against hijacking.
So basically you put these threads up..and expect not to be challenged?
Then what's the point?
