Wife of man murdered by FBI and Oregon State Police files suit

[jon_berzerk]

it is painfully obvious the left has left out the details

of the clinton cash flow in

in the Russian uranium deal

... and the relevance to a dumbfucking rightard hellbent on getting himself martyred by the police is...?

take it up with old rocks asshole

 

[Faun]

it is painfully obvious the left has left out the details

of the clinton cash flow in

in the Russian uranium deal

... and the relevance to a dumbfucking rightard hellbent on getting himself martyred by the police is...?

take it up with old rocks asshole

Nah, I'll just dismiss it, along with this none answer of yours, as just more unhinged rantings.

 

[koshergrl]

Wife of Oregon militia leader killed by cops to sue FBI

The paper managed to lie in the first paragraph! He wasn't running from anyone. In fact he was shot at while driving to a meeting and then got out with his hands up and was shot in the back. AKA MURDER.

“There is now physical evidence (shell casings) that proves that two FBI agents lied during the law enforcement investigation by stating they did not fire the first shots at Finicum’s vehicle,” Claypool told the news site in a statement.

Bullshit, he twice reached down to his waist as if going for a gun.

Good clean kill.

Apparently this guy thought he could go out a hero, which is a shame. He sounds like he could have done more good by sharing his observations than playing the martyr.

No, dumbass.

Hey thanks for the compliment.

Welcome to my ignore list too.

While I like a lot of your posts, I am tired of your bipolar bullshit.

Callingnyou a dumbass isn't a sign of.mental illness. It's voicing the general consensus of your.primarynpersonality trait.

 

[WorldWatcher]

She obviously ain't gonna get much support from the liberal media. It should be noted that the FBI sniper who shot Randy Weaver's wife in the head while she was holding an 18 month child in her arms was indicted by an Idaho Grand Jury for manslaughter. He never stood trial because the feds managed to dismiss the charges.

It should also be noted that the sniper was firing at Harris retreating into the house and fired as he entered the door. Weaver's wife was behind the door and not in sight of the sniper.

You made it sound like the sniper targeted a woman holding an infant, not the case.

>>>>

 

[Old Rocks]

Bundy's were not paying their part for the cows they were putting on BLM land. They were puttling more units on the land that was allowed, given the drought conditions. They should have rounded up all the cows, and sold them for the money owed.

Legally the BLM can't.

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

 

[Old Rocks]

Wife of Oregon militia leader killed by cops to sue FBI

The paper managed to lie in the first paragraph! He wasn't running from anyone. In fact he was shot at while driving to a meeting and then got out with his hands up and was shot in the back. AKA MURDER.

“There is now physical evidence (shell casings) that proves that two FBI agents lied during the law enforcement investigation by stating they did not fire the first shots at Finicum’s vehicle,” Claypool told the news site in a statement.

Bullshit, he twice reached down to his waist as if going for a gun.

Good clean kill.

Apparently this guy thought he could go out a hero, which is a shame. He sounds like he could have done more good by sharing his observations than playing the martyr.

No, dumbass.

Hey thanks for the compliment.

Welcome to my ignore list too.

While I like a lot of your posts, I am tired of your bipolar bullshit.

Callingnyou a dumbass isn't a sign of.mental illness. It's voicing the general consensus of your.primarynpersonality trait.

Hmmmmmmmm.............. Looking at that sentence. Perhaps a little less sauce in the morning?

 

[westwall]

Legally the BLM can't.

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

 

[Skylar]

Bundy's were not paying their part for the cows they were putting on BLM land. They were puttling more units on the land that was allowed, given the drought conditions. They should have rounded up all the cows, and sold them for the money owed.

Legally the BLM can't.

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

All the sources I've seen say that the cattle were taken off of Federal land. Do you have verifiable sources that contradict this?

These folks have a vested interest and have been keeping a close eye on things. You'll notice the cow was shot in one of the chutes. These are not on public lands, these are on the Bundy property proper.

Graphic Photos Show What The BLM Really Did To Bundy's Cows

So your source that the cattle were taken from the Bundy Ranch.....is the Bundy Ranch?

Is there any source that might be a little more objective?

 

[Skylar]

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

Stupid, perhaps. Illegal though, no. Social media posts released by the Bundy Ranch with no evidence they are from the Bundy Ranch doesn't establish their claims.

 

[koshergrl]

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

If there's one thing we know for sure...the records our government keep regarding land useage and sales, contracts and treaties...are always 100 PERCENT INFALLIBLE, CORRECT, AND TRUTHFUL!

Get a fucking grip and stop getting your information from the enemy. You're a dumbass if you believe the feds have the right to grab land and property from people. The BLM CONSISTENTLY threatens people and calls in the feds for firepower to back up their ridiculous garbage, and the people in the countryside, who have been dealing with this shit for almost a fucking century, are sick of it.

The feds showed up at Bunkerville with snipers, and announced their intention to shoot anybody who stood in their way as they killed and seized Bundy property and anything else that was in their way. People are sick of this bullshit, and I suspect that Finicum is going to be the last one that dies without people firing back.

 

[westwall]

Legally the BLM can't.

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

All the sources I've seen say that the cattle were taken off of Federal land. Do you have verifiable sources that contradict this?

These folks have a vested interest and have been keeping a close eye on things. You'll notice the cow was shot in one of the chutes. These are not on public lands, these are on the Bundy property proper.

Graphic Photos Show What The BLM Really Did To Bundy's Cows

So your source that the cattle were taken from the Bundy Ranch.....is the Bundy Ranch?

Is there any source that might be a little more objective?

Sadly I can find nothing more definitive. I am continuing to look. And yes, killing cattle IS illegal. Even if they are on public lands it is still a felony to kill them.

 

[westwall]

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

Stupid, perhaps. Illegal though, no. Social media posts released by the Bundy Ranch with no evidence they are from the Bundy Ranch doesn't establish their claims.

Stupid absolutely, illegal, not the raid itself, but the killing of the cattle was.

 

[koshergrl]

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

Stupid, perhaps. Illegal though, no. Social media posts released by the Bundy Ranch with no evidence they are from the Bundy Ranch doesn't establish their claims.

Stupid absolutely, illegal, not the raid itself, but the killing of the cattle was.

Show me in the Constititution where it gives the BLM authority to seize property based on land use disputes.

I'll wait.

 

[Skylar]

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

All the sources I've seen say that the cattle were taken off of Federal land. Do you have verifiable sources that contradict this?

These folks have a vested interest and have been keeping a close eye on things. You'll notice the cow was shot in one of the chutes. These are not on public lands, these are on the Bundy property proper.

Graphic Photos Show What The BLM Really Did To Bundy's Cows

So your source that the cattle were taken from the Bundy Ranch.....is the Bundy Ranch?

Is there any source that might be a little more objective?

Sadly I can find nothing more definitive. I am continuing to look. And yes, killing cattle IS illegal. Even if they are on public lands it is still a felony to kill them.

Depends on the circumstances. If in the process of impounding the cattle some become dangerous or are injured and had to be put down, I wouldn't think that's a criminal act. The BLM might be financial liable for the cattle, but that would be a civil, not criminal issue.

 

[Skylar]

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

Stupid, perhaps. Illegal though, no. Social media posts released by the Bundy Ranch with no evidence they are from the Bundy Ranch doesn't establish their claims.

Stupid absolutely, illegal, not the raid itself, but the killing of the cattle was.

Show me in the Constititution where it gives the BLM authority to seize property based on land use disputes.

I'll wait.

"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States."

Such rules were made. Bundy violated them, Tresspassing. The BLM took Bundy to court and won.

Ignore as you will.

 

[Old Rocks]

They had a court order that said that they could 'seize and impound' any cattle that were on US government land. The only possible caveat was that for 'future trespass' that they could seize and impound the cattle if they had met notification requirements.

Are you claiming that the BLM didn't meet such notification requirements? Because otherwise, I can't see how the seizure of the cattle was illegal.

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

The Bundy's had threatened lawmen before with guns. What they should have done was rounded up the family, put them in jail for assault with a deadly, then rounded up the cows and sold them. Then leased the grazing rights out to a real rancher.

 

[mdainvegas]

I would love to see some examples of police shootings that were targeting clearly innocent and cooperative perps.

 

[koshergrl]

I would love to see some examples of police shootings that were targeting clearly innocent and cooperative perps.

So you maintain that anybody who doesn't immediately accommodate cops no matter HOW out of line they are, should be shot?

And anybody who is determined to "not clearly innocent" is subject to the death penalty?

Interesting version of the world you live in. In my world, that is how third world countries and tyrannies do business. In my world, in the US, we should not fear our cops because they are subject to the CONSTITUTION. Which means they don't get to gun us down just because we aren't *clearly* innocent or 100 percent immediately compliant with whatever orders they bark....

 

[Faun]

I would love to see some examples of police shootings that were targeting clearly innocent and cooperative perps.

So you maintain that anybody who doesn't immediately accommodate cops no matter HOW out of line they are, should be shot?

And anybody who is determined to "not clearly innocent" is subject to the death penalty?

Interesting version of the world you live in. In my world, that is how third world countries and tyrannies do business. In my world, in the US, we should not fear our cops because they are subject to the CONSTITUTION. Which means they don't get to gun us down just because we aren't *clearly* innocent or 100 percent immediately compliant with whatever orders they bark....

Cowboys Lives Matter

 

[westwall]

BLM agents, took cattle from, and killed cattle on BUNDY land. That is the very definition of an Illegal Taking. They were absolutely violating the law when they initiated that raid.

Link? You do realize that the Bundy's had very little land?

Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know

2. The Bundy family has owned its ranch since the 1870s. The ranch is only about 160 acres, which isn’t enough space to sustain the hundreds of cattle that Bundy owns. He insists the disputed land around his ranch belongs to the state of Nevada, rather than the federal government, and he says the feds have no authority in the area. He told the Sun the government is trying to sabotage his plans to someday turn the ranch over to his son.

Read more: Bundy and BLM: 10 things to know
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook

The Bundy's owe more in back grazing fees than all of the rest of the ranchers in the US put together.

Permits[edit]
Under Bureau of Land Management permits that had first been issued in 1954, Bundy grazed his cattle legally and paid his grazing fees on the Bunkerville Allotment until 1993. In that year, as a protest, Bundy did not pay renewal fees. His permit was canceled in 1994.[8][9] Although the agency made several attempts to have Bundy renew the permit, the rancher declared that he no longer recognized the BLM's authority to regulate his grazing, and he asserted that he had "vested rights" to graze cattle on the land.[3] Federal courts consistently ruled against Bundy, concluding that he was a trespasser with no right to graze on federal land. The courts authorized the BLM to remove Bundy's cattle and to levy damages for unauthorized use.[3][10]

Bundy accumulated more than $1 million of unpaid grazing fees and court-ordered fines.[11][12] The Portland Oregoniannewspaper reported in May 2014 that the amount that Bundy owed stood in "stark contrast" to the situation in Oregon, where just 45 of the state's roughly 1,100 grazing permit holders collectively owed $18,759 in past-due payments to the BLM.[13]Excluding Bundy's unpaid fees, the total of all late grazing fees owed nationwide to the BLM was only $237,000.[14]

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I understand that. However there are plenty of pictures that show dead cows on Bundy land. I have presented one of those in a link above.

You presented a link that stated that the photos were from the social media. That means those photos could be from anywhere. And there are plenty of cattle chutes on BLM land. Those photos could have been taken in Argentina for all the proof you have of there origin.

Yes, part of what you say is true. However the whole BLM raid is stupid. A tax lien gets the feds everything they want, and there is no need for bloodshed. cliven bundy is an asshole, a moron, and a liar. Their claim to have been there since the 1870's is patently false. Records show his father buying the property from Raoul Leavitt in 1948. He relied on government complacency, and ineptitude, to cover his not paying the grazing fees. That worked for a long time, but now the government has finally woken up and want the money owed to them.

I think the amount claimed is absurd, but the bundy's clearly owe the feds tons of money. Probably more than they have in cash, and maybe even more than what they have in total property. I simply don't know. What I do know is the BLM was stupid in launching the assault. Stupid, stupid, stupid. They had everything to lose, and unless we are living in a dictatorship where fear of government is desired, nothing to gain.

The Bundy's had threatened lawmen before with guns. What they should have done was rounded up the family, put them in jail for assault with a deadly, then rounded up the cows and sold them. Then leased the grazing rights out to a real rancher.

I haven't seen evidence of them threatening anyone. Do you have a link for that? And, yes, rounded up the right way I have no problem with. Felony stop on the highway leading in to town, go for it. Launching a large scale assault.......ummmm. Nope. Not unless you are trying make EVERYONE fear government. The bundy's aren't the Mongols or the Hells Angels who WOULD warrant a show of force like that. They are a bunch of country dumbshits in way over their heads.