Why you're not wealthy

[loosecannon]

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

Indeed it is a lousy cop out, but it is also your opinion, I said nothing like that.

No there is no correlation between hard work and wealth. How many times do I have to say it? You need to change how you think about money if you want o accumulate wealth. Attaining wealth is not about how many hours of work you put in. If financial independence is a goal, I would at least hope you would be smart enough to figure out that you probably aren't going to get wealthy working for someone else.

So what you are basically saying is that you never stopped beating your wife.

What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas. It is gifted to you by nature and society.

The other 10% is only weakly causative, and it isn't all about planning, effort, ideas, a plan, who you work for....it is also about how good looking you are, who you marry, who you know, how your parents raised you, ethics, culture, and of course dumb luck either good or bad among other factors.

Only old money has the luxury of formulas for success.

Your rhetoric sounds like an AmWay sales pitch.

 

[loosecannon]

[...]

I believe there is as much a culture of the wealthy as aculturated poor.

We can "inherit" more than money from our ancestors. We also can inherit their knowedge and skills. The abilities to reduce risk, and increase the chances of becoming wealthy is learned more in a family or community accustomed to practicing them.

That is very true.

My parents had a really hard time during the Great Depression and their experience left them with a very strong mindset. The advice my father pounded into our heads was to get civil service jobs, never invest in anything but U.S. Savings Bonds, avoid debt and, except for a house, never buy what you can't afford to pay for up front.

I've followed his advice and have ended up content and secure with absolutely no regrets and with a strong socialist inclination, which I believe derives from the stories my parents told us about "those years" and how they came about.

I see something very similar happening now.

Indeed, there are no entrepreneurs in my family, and I don't know anyone who would have the vaguest idea how to start a business and maintain it.

But the One Hard and Fast Rule is to maintain as little Debt as possible.

Of course this is entirely contrary to the risk-taker, who will borrow whatever he need to make his dream a reality, gambling that, "if he builds it, then they will come."

It's also contrary to our financial economy which relies on debt, or rather survives on debt.

Does it strike you as odd that the single most practical personal financial tip of all time is squarely at odds with how our global macro economy actually gathers it's lifeblood?

The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

 

[Samson]

That is very true.

My parents had a really hard time during the Great Depression and their experience left them with a very strong mindset. The advice my father pounded into our heads was to get civil service jobs, never invest in anything but U.S. Savings Bonds, avoid debt and, except for a house, never buy what you can't afford to pay for up front.

I've followed his advice and have ended up content and secure with absolutely no regrets and with a strong socialist inclination, which I believe derives from the stories my parents told us about "those years" and how they came about.

I see something very similar happening now.

Indeed, there are no entrepreneurs in my family, and I don't know anyone who would have the vaguest idea how to start a business and maintain it.

But the One Hard and Fast Rule is to maintain as little Debt as possible.

Of course this is entirely contrary to the risk-taker, who will borrow whatever he need to make his dream a reality, gambling that, "if he builds it, then they will come."

It's also contrary to our financial economy which relies on debt, or rather survives on debt.

Does it strike you as odd that the single most practical personal financial tip of all time is squarely at odds with how our global macro economy actually gathers it's lifeblood?

The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

Yin cannot exist without Yang.

 

[loosecannon]

Indeed, there are no entrepreneurs in my family, and I don't know anyone who would have the vaguest idea how to start a business and maintain it.

But the One Hard and Fast Rule is to maintain as little Debt as possible.

Of course this is entirely contrary to the risk-taker, who will borrow whatever he need to make his dream a reality, gambling that, "if he builds it, then they will come."

It's also contrary to our financial economy which relies on debt, or rather survives on debt.

Does it strike you as odd that the single most practical personal financial tip of all time is squarely at odds with how our global macro economy actually gathers it's lifeblood?

The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

Yin cannot exist without Yang.

The Tao of money:

capitalists and labor. Capitalists have money, labor needs money, the rest is self explanatory.

 

[Samson]

It's also contrary to our financial economy which relies on debt, or rather survives on debt.

Does it strike you as odd that the single most practical personal financial tip of all time is squarely at odds with how our global macro economy actually gathers it's lifeblood?

The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money.

Yin cannot exist without Yang.

The Tao of money:

capitalists and labor. Capitalists have money, labor needs money, the rest is self explanatory.

There's not much I've found that cannot be explained through Taoism.

 

[Bern80]

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

Indeed it is a lousy cop out, but it is also your opinion, I said nothing like that.

Yes you did:

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

I'm already working way too hard if that's true. I suggest you also put forth 90% less effort than you are now and tell me how well you're doing in a few weeks. I imagine you will find the only thing you will have accomplished is the most convenient excuse for not be wealthy every. "The reason I'm not wealthy is because my effort towards becoming wealthy is irrelavent in becoming wealthy." Nice circular logic there.

 

[Bern80]

Indeed, there are no entrepreneurs in my family, and I don't know anyone who would have the vaguest idea how to start a business and maintain it.

But the One Hard and Fast Rule is to maintain as little Debt as possible.

Of course this is entirely contrary to the risk-taker, who will borrow whatever he need to make his dream a reality, gambling that, "if he builds it, then they will come."

Actually most of the wealthy would say otherwise. They generally have an extreme aversion to risk. Warren Buffet comapred investing to swinging a baseball bat. People think it's hack, hack, hack and hope you get lucky and hit the ball. The difference is in investing and what people need to remember is you there are no balls and strikes, there's no time limit. You never have to 'swing' until all of the conditions are just right.

 

[jillian]

i don't think that's what he's saying at all. he is merely pointing out that whether someone succeeds or not can be based on a combination of factors and it is not necessarily a function of just wanting it.

i'm sure he'll correct me if i'm misreading him. but i know that you're reading what he wrote through your own personal prism.

Of course wanting it isn't enough. I think at the very least we would all like more money. You do have to actually take action. My point the action of working hard is not the one that is going to make you financially independent.

so what is your point? you seem to have a lot of advice for those who want to be wealthy. i'd think that advice only has validity if it comes from someone wealthy, hence my initial question.

the best advice for being wealthy?

be good at what you do.

then for your second full-time job, learn to market yourself.

 

[loosecannon]

Again what you're basically saying is that we should all just sit on our asses and hope the luck fairy lands on us. Who we are and what we become has nothing to do with the choices we make? Talk about the ultimate cop out for an underachiever.

Indeed it is a lousy cop out, but it is also your opinion, I said nothing like that.

Yes you did:

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

No I didn't. The quote you pasted says nothing like your paraphrase. So what you are basically saying is that you never did stop beating your wife?

 

[editec]

There is simply not yet enough wealth in the world for all of us to live in affluence

The USA has reached a time when even our poor are better off than the wealthy used to be, but words like wealth and poverty are all relative.

The formula that so many of you advance to finding wealth definitely DOES make sense, but it is not a guarantee of attaining wealth, merely ity is good advice that MAY work with luck and pluck.

If it were a guarantee to wealth then far more people would be wealthy than currently are.

 

[Bern80]

so what is your point? you seem to have a lot of advice for those who want to be wealthy. i'd think that advice only has validity if it comes from someone wealthy, hence my initial question.

Nope, I'm not wealthy. But at least I know why. And I know it doesn't have anything to do with some invisible hand keeping me from being wealthy. My advice isn't even my advice. It comes from reading a lot about the subject by people that have researched the subject and peope that are indeed wealthy. I don't need to be wealthy to understand basic ideas like becoming wealthy isn't something that is just going to happen by sitting on my ass. It has to be made a goal and actions taken toward that goal.

the best advice for being wealthy?

be good at what you do.

then for your second full-time job, learn to market yourself.

That is horrible advice. I am great at customer service. Been doing it for 5 years. Am I going to get wealthy at that? Of course not. It isn't a skill worthy of great wealth.

 

[jillian]

so what is your point? you seem to have a lot of advice for those who want to be wealthy. i'd think that advice only has validity if it comes from someone wealthy, hence my initial question.

Nope, I'm not wealthy. But at least I know why. And I know it doesn't have anything to do with some invisible hand keeping me from being wealthy. My advice isn't even my advice. It comes from reading a lot about the subject by people that have researched the subject and peope that are indeed wealthy. I don't need to be wealthy to understand basic ideas like becoming wealthy isn't something that is just going to happen by sitting on my ass. It has to be made a goal and actions taken toward that goal.

the best advice for being wealthy?

be good at what you do.

then for your second full-time job, learn to market yourself.

That is horrible advice. I am great at customer service. Been doing it for 5 years. Am I going to get wealthy at that? Of course not. It isn't a skill worthy of great wealth.

actually it's great advice. you are in customer service. it is the SKILLS you have to market. what areas can you transfer those skills to? public relations? life coaching? social work? operating a service business where you get people's errands done and have people working for you?

and if you're not wealthy, then your surmise about how to get wealthy is just that.

 

[jillian]

There is simply not yet enough wealth in the world for all of us to live in affluence

The USA has reached a time when even our poor are better off than the wealthy used to be, but words like wealth and poverty are all relative.

The formula that so many of you advance to finding wealth definitely DOES make sense, but it is not a guarantee of attaining wealth, merely ity is good advice that MAY work with luck and pluck.

If it were a guarantee to wealth then far more people would be wealthy than currently are.

it always took luck and pluck to find wealth. it is just now that the middle class is dying and you can't buy a home and support a family of four on one middle class wage that it becomes an issue.

 

[Bern80]

"What I am saying is that 90% of what determines your outcome in life has nothing at all to do with your choices, efforts, ideas."

No I didn't. The quote you pasted says nothing like your paraphrase. So what you are basically saying is that you never did stop beating your wife?

I didn't paraphrase any of the above quote. That is a direct quote from you in post 101. If it is true and the choices I make have little to no effect on my wealth (which is an outcome), I might as well stop trying. It means that in your world, who is wealthy and who isn't is just blind luck. Which is an extremely convenient argument for someone who isn't wealthy.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

In response to the myriad threads I'll just lump together and call 'evil rich people', I thought maybe we ought to change things up a bit and see if we can get some of the haters to change their thinking.

Why aren't you wealthy? Is it really because all these evil people are holding you down? Or is it because your mindset doesn't really allow for much in the way of wealth accumulation? I would contend it's the later.

I think I'm safe in saying most of us would like more money. But how many of you have made that a goal? How many of you are really working toward that goal by finding ways to increase your cash flow? I bet not many. This is what I mean when I say most people who have accumulated wealth look at money differently than the whiners. If the goal really is wealth accumulation (as oppossed to get a good job, get a good education etc.) then you need to look at all the options. And a simple truth is working hard is only one option and probably the least effective, non sensical of the bunch. Maybe if I work harder I'll make more money. But working harder means more of my time. What is the point of more money with less free time to use it? The wealthy figured this out and realize it's not about working hard for money it's about finding ways for money to work for you. It's not about working hard. It's about working smart.

The problem is we've all been duped. Most of us have grown thinking the way life is suppossed to go is get a good education, get a good job, etc. This bullshit about the rich wanting more and more and more is just that. It isn't just them that wants more. It's everyone. The only difference is they figured it out and other people haven't and the reason they figured it out is because they ditched the conventional wisdom about how life is suppossed to go.

Maybe it's because they're illiterate and can't spell?

Just a thought.

And I'm wealthy.

When you can show me the study linking wealth attainment with spelling mistakes as a result of typing too fast, get back to me. Deal?

It's very clear that illiteracy leads to poverty.

So does carelessness, laziness and sloppiness. If your posts are worth sharing, they're worth the couple of minutes of proofreading needed.

 

[Bern80]

There is simply not yet enough wealth in the world for all of us to live in affluence

The USA has reached a time when even our poor are better off than the wealthy used to be, but words like wealth and poverty are all relative.

Sure it is. Which is why I prefer the term financial independence.

The formula that so many of you advance to finding wealth definitely DOES make sense, but it is not a guarantee of attaining wealth, merely ity is good advice that MAY work with luck and pluck.

If it were a guarantee to wealth then far more people would be wealthy than currently are.

I don't think so. Because again, such a statement assumes that everyone is activley and conciously taking the appropriate actions to increase their wealth. We know that is observably untrue. A lot of people are not only not actively pursing more wealth. A lot of people are really stupid with their money. You're right not everyone can be affluent. My point is stop blaming everyone else for the fact that you're not. Why do people dispense all of this advice? It's like the warning label on cigarettes. The tobacco company doesn't have a problem putting that on the pack because they know it's not going to change very much how many people smoke.

 

[Bern80]

Maybe it's because they're illiterate and can't spell?

Just a thought.

And I'm wealthy.

When you can show me the study linking wealth attainment with spelling mistakes as a result of typing too fast, get back to me. Deal?

It's very clear that illiteracy leads to poverty.

So does carelessness, laziness and sloppiness. If your posts are worth sharing, they're worth the couple of minutes of proofreading needed.

Will do my best. Now, care to actually comment on any substance? Or are you content to think you won an argument by not actually addressing it?

 

[Bern80]

it always took luck and pluck to find wealth. it is just now that the middle class is dying and you can't buy a home and support a family of four on one middle class wage that it becomes an issue.

That's another thing. Where is this invisible rule book that says this level of income is supposed to pay for this standard of living?

I'm a good example I guess. Single guy in a small apartment. On $25k a year a single guy can do okay on that. Have most of your basic luxuries like, satelite, internet, cell phone, etc. Is it reasonable to expect that will pay for a family of four? Of course not. Stop thinking your wage needs to adjust to you. YOU need to make the appropriate 'adjustments' to attain the wage that pays for the standard of living you want.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

When you can show me the study linking wealth attainment with spelling mistakes as a result of typing too fast, get back to me. Deal?

It's very clear that illiteracy leads to poverty.

So does carelessness, laziness and sloppiness. If your posts are worth sharing, they're worth the couple of minutes of proofreading needed.

Will do my best. Now, care to actually comment on any substance? Or are you content to think you won an argument by not actually addressing it?

I'm wealthy so, not really anything to debate, for me.

I got there by not being sloppy, lazy, careless and illiterate. And by never, ever taking out any type of loan, for anything. Ever.

And by following this advice in everything I did, not just even the small stuff, but especially the small stuff:

Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch... excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.

I'm 49, been retired since age 43.... Never have to work for money no matter how long I live. And now you know why.

 

[Bern80]

It's very clear that illiteracy leads to poverty.

So does carelessness, laziness and sloppiness. If your posts are worth sharing, they're worth the couple of minutes of proofreading needed.

Will do my best. Now, care to actually comment on any substance? Or are you content to think you won an argument by not actually addressing it?

I'm wealthy so, not really anything to debate, for me.

I got there by not being sloppy, lazy, careless and illiterate. And by never, ever taking out any type of loan, for anything. Ever.

And by following this advice in everything I did, not just even the small stuff, but especially the small stuff:

Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch... excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good.

I'm 49, been retired since age 43.... Never have to work for money no matter how long I live. And now you know why.

Good for you. Though, all the more interesting that you preffered to point out the innocuois. Maybe you need to find new ways to occupy your time in early retirement.