Zone1 Why the rosary is a most important prayer/meditation all Christians should say daily

[The Irish Ram]

The Fatima apparition promoted itself and asked to be honored. Any true godly apparition would point to and honor God, not itself

Mary never asked to be honored when she was alive. Why would she after death?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Does scripture mention:

Belief in God the Father Almighty Creator of heaven and earth
in Jesus Christ, his son, our Lord.

Does scripture mention:

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirt
Born of the Virgin Mary
Suffered, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead and rose again on the third day.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father.
He will come to judge the living and the dead.

Does scripture mention The Lord's Prayer?
Does scripture mention we should give glory to God?
Does scripture mention the life and teachings of Jesus?

When you toss out the Rosary, you toss out all of the above because all of the above is what the Rosary is about and why it is a prayer.

You declaring none of the above matters one whit is what goes against scripture.

You need to stop putting words in our mouths so you can twist what we say. We are not saying anything against Mary. We are questioning the appearance of an apparition.
And none of that scripture above gets tossed out if you have no rosary. It's all still right there in the Bible. And note that not one of those scriptures mentions a rosary, or a rosary prayer, or honoring Mary. It is all about Jesus.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The determination to make Mary into some kind of villain is amazing

No one has turned Mary into a villain. Stop making things up to make yourself look more credible.

 

[Meriweather]

That is a viciously false accusation.

I was hoping you might see it that way. I took what you said and twisted it a bit, did I not? And it made you angry. What emotion do you think your own twisting evoked? The connection you fail to see thus far, is the twisting being done with Mary's innocent words at Fatima, twisting her words into something you can condemn and portray her as Satan.

Think about it. Could it be your ears Satan is whispering in, encouraging you to denigrate Mary, her love of God, and in a time of war, a way towards peace, and to tear down Christ's own mother...

What were the fruits of Fatima? Prayers. Healing. Increased faith. Are these fruits of Satan, or are they the fruits of someone who loves God deeply?

 

[Meriweather]

"or" is a conjunction. It indicates an alternative.

It suggests at least one on the list. It does not suggest nothing on the list.

 

[Meriweather]

Mary never asked to be honored when she was alive. Why would she after death?

Today, are you going around having to ask those who know you, to give you respect or any regard at all? Or, are you given respect or even honors from those who know you and what you do?

What are you saying? That we should treat everyone with blatant disregard because showing honor/respect is not a good thing?

You actually believe Mary was so disregarded by the other Apostles, she would have had to ask for their regard to have been given any regard at all?

 

[Meriweather]

You need to stop putting words in our mouths so you can twist what we say. We are not saying anything against Mary. We are questioning the appearance of an apparition.
And none of that scripture above gets tossed out if you have no rosary. It's all still right there in the Bible. And note that not one of those scriptures mentions a rosary, or a rosary prayer, or honoring Mary. It is all about Jesus.

Read what is being said about the Rosary. I don't put those words into your mouth. The entire Rosary and its adoration of God is plainly put forth, but those who do not know the Rosary, do not pray the Rosary are claiming it is merely about Mary and that Mary wouldn't do such a thing. Correct, because Mary didn't do what you are claiming, she is shining a light on Christ and the great love of God. You have to claim the Rosary is something that it is not so that you can disregard and denigrate it--and apparently all missions Mary has been given by God.

Think about this: The both of you seem to think that Jesus dismissed Mary as someone who merely pushed him into the world and nursed him. You don't seem to see her as a person in her own right, a person who loved God greatly, sacrificed for him, and loved Jesus with all her heart. Has an angel ever noted that anyone else is full of grace?

You actually seem to think Jesus was dismissing Mary as someone who merely birthed and nursed him! Jesus is God, and scripture has it Mary found favor with God, was highly favored. It seems like it never crossed your mind that Jesus was telling us why Mary was favored--and it wasn't merely because she gave birth or nursed!

 

[Meriweather]

No one has turned Mary into a villain. Stop making things up to make yourself look more credible.

You are suggesting all of that. You say Mary sinned. You disregard her perpetual divinity. You don't think she should be honored in any way. When she appears appealing for prayers to God, you dismiss her as Satan. Do you want to supply scripture verses where Satan has urged people to turn to God, pray for others, and build a place to worship God? How about inspiring a person to join a convent of nuns devoted to contemplative prayer and of sacrifice to God?

Are you aware that when St. Jerome made his translation from the original Biblical language into Latin and used the word brethren a someone used 'brethren' which could mean brother to say Mary must have had other children. When Jerome was told this, he laughed and scoffed, "No one is ever going to believe that."

In the original language, Jesus' family members would be more accurately described as 'kin'. But no. Over a thousand years later King James said 'brothers' right, so half-brothers Protestants made all Jesus' kin.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The encyclical Mystici corporis Christi from Pope Pius XII (1943) holds that Mary was also sinless personally, "free from all sin, original or personal". The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that by the grace of God "Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long."

Yep. Which begs the question, why did Mary say that Jesus was her savior? What would He be saving her from if she was sinless? Where in the Bible does it say she was sinless? My Bible says we are all sinners, and that Jesus was the only exception.Absolut

Read what is being said about the Rosary. I don't put those words into your mouth. The entire Rosary and its adoration of God is plainly put forth, but those who do not know the Rosary, do not pray the Rosary are claiming it is merely about Mary and that Mary wouldn't do such a thing. Correct, because Mary didn't do what you are claiming, she is shining a light on Christ and the great love of God. You have to claim the Rosary is something that it is not so that you can disregard and denigrate it--and apparently all missions Mary has been given by God.

Think about this: The both of you seem to think that Jesus dismissed Mary as someone who merely pushed him into the world and nursed him. You don't seem to see her as a person in her own right, a person who loved God greatly, sacrificed for him, and loved Jesus with all her heart. Has an angel ever noted that anyone else is full of grace?

You actually seem to think Jesus was dismissing Mary as someone who merely birthed and nursed him! Jesus is God, and scripture has it Mary found favor with God, was highly favored. It seems like it never crossed your mind that Jesus was telling us why Mary was favored--and it wasn't merely because she gave birth or nursed!

^ Absolutely none of that is true.
Jesus didn't dismiss His mother and neither do we. And you know that. We have visited that subject earlier. I have the upmost respect and love for Mary. Do I believe she showed up here on earth and told people to use a rosary? No. Rosary and rosary prayer are not Biblical. If it was in the Bible, you and the rest of us would have produced it by now.
Stop telling us what we SEEM to think, when we couldn't be more concise. Not only did Jesus NOT dismiss His mother, He made John her caretaker before He died on the cross. Which is why John lived a longer life than the rest of the disciples. Because, of the ten
commandments, one comes with a blessing:
Honor your mother and father and I will lengthen your days.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You say Mary sinned

If Mary was a human being, then she falls in this category:

Romans 3:23-24 Everyone >as in every one has sinned and fallen short of God's glorious standard, and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ.

 

[Meriweather]

If Mary was a human being, then she falls in this category:

So copy and paste the Bible verses that describe these sins of Mary. I take it you believe that God's grace, even fullness of God's grace, still allows for sin?

 

[The Irish Ram]

I just gave you the scripture. Everyone means every one. If you were born of a human you can start with the original sin that is passed down through the generations.

Why would Mary consider Christ as her savior if she didn't need one?

Romans 3:23-24 Everyone >as in every one has sinned and fallen short of God's glorious standard, and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ.

Here are some more:

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, not even one

Not even one. Are you correct in insisting that there is another one, besides Jesus, or is the Bible correct?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Meri, I appreciate being able to debate these issues with you without personal affronts and indignant character assassinations. It is as it should be.

 

[Meriweather]

I just gave you the scripture.

Not one of these scriptures addresses someone already filled with God's grace. Is it your belief that someone filled with God's grace still sins and still is not righteous? You are aware of the Bible verse where Mary, before Christ's birth said her soul glorifies the Lord and rejoices in God her Savior. In other words, God's saving power had already been bestowed upon her.

Do you believe that a soul filled with the grace of God can sin?

 

[buttercup]

I was hoping you might see it that way. I took what you said and twisted it a bit, did I not? And it made you angry. What emotion do you think your own twisting evoked? The connection you fail to see thus far, is the twisting being done with Mary's innocent words at Fatima, twisting her words into something you can condemn and portray her as Satan.

Think about it. Could it be your ears Satan is whispering in, encouraging you to denigrate Mary, her love of God, and in a time of war, a way towards peace, and to tear down Christ's own mother...

What were the fruits of Fatima? Prayers. Healing. Increased faith. Are these fruits of Satan, or are they the fruits of someone who loves God deeply?

So you purposely said something that was not true to teach me a lesson for not saying nice things about the Fatima apparitions? Well thanks for admitting that at least, lol.

And no, I didn't "twist her words," I posted them verbatim, in black and white. You are the one who "interpreted" them by reading the mind of the apparition and claiming it said something that it didn't actually say. I mean, don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that you can't believe that the apparition meant something different. But I just find it funny that you accuse me of twisting "her" words when I was going by the actual words, and you're the one who changed them to something different.

As for the "fruit"... if millions upon millions of people become false converts because they are believing a false Gospel, then that is bad fruit, very very bad fruit. And that sounds exactly like something that satan would want to do.

 

[Meriweather]

I posted them verbatim, in black and white

And then set down what you decided they "really" meant and what she was "really" saying...

 

[Meriweather]

As for the "fruit"... if millions upon millions of people become false converts because they are believing a false Gospel, then that is bad fruit, very very bad fruit. And that sounds exactly like something that satan would want to do.

What false gospel/good news? As I pointed out, it takes your interpretation of what Mary said to claim she is to be worshiped or that rosary is all about her when neither is the case. No religion has set Mary up as God or to be worshiped. Yet you act as if this is indisputable, undeniable fact accepted by all.

 

[buttercup]

And then set down what you decided they "really" meant and what she was "really" saying...

Nope, I took it at its word. It clearly stated "sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary." YOU said it meant something different.

Come on, Meriweather. You are putting your fierce allegiance to a church / sect, above truth and common sense. That is dangerous territory. Truth should always be paramount.

 

[Meriweather]

Nope, I took it at its word. It clearly stated "sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary." YOU said it meant something different.

No. I described the Immaculate Heart of Mary, what fills her heart. You think her heart is all about herself, when it is all about God and always has been.

 

[Meriweather]

Come on, Meriweather. You are putting your fierce allegiance to a church / denomination, above truth and common sense. That is dangerous territory. Truth should always be paramount.

What I am doing is going back to the original languages, their etymology. I have no fierce alliance to a church or a denomination. If I have a fierce alliance to anything (and I can't say as I do) it is in researching the original meaning/etymology of words--what they meant when originally set down, and how those meanings changed through interpretations into other languages and over time in different cultures. It is a fascinating study and it certainly is not "dangerous territory". It reveals truths, and truth is what should be paramount.

In fact, as I have said several times before (in different threads) I have mommy issues and therefore have never given Mary much attention. However, this does not mean I will not defend the innocent even if she does happen to be known as mother of all, when the last thing I'll ever want is another mother. I am fair to Mary, and that's the extent of what I am saying.