Why should the poor not have to pay federal income tax

[Ernie S.]

do you know how group policies work? or how insurance companies determine their premiums?

I do. You see, I don't have health insurance. I pay my bills myself, so I actually help hold down the cost of health care by paying more a bit more than ins. company negotiated rates and making up for freeloaders that get care without paying the bill. Get it?

not really. if a person takes a job, and that company includes a benefits package as additional compensation, and a bunch of their employees smoke, have additional health problems and run up the premiums for the company, what's that got to do with freeloaders?? or for that matter, your question was mainly about smokers and additional health costs. so what do freeloaders have to do with that question?

Go back a bit and read. In response to someone talking about taxes poor people pay, I pointed out that I pay those same taxes in addition to all the other taxes that the poor do not pay.
What the hell does the fact that I smoke a pack a day have to do with your group insurance premium. I'm not covered by it. I pay my health care costs out of pocket. Freeloaders do not. Hospitals have to cover costs to stay in business. I pay more to make up for those that don't pay at all.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

I do. You see, I don't have health insurance. I pay my bills myself, so I actually help hold down the cost of health care by paying more a bit more than ins. company negotiated rates and making up for freeloaders that get care without paying the bill. Get it?

not really. if a person takes a job, and that company includes a benefits package as additional compensation, and a bunch of their employees smoke, have additional health problems and run up the premiums for the company, what's that got to do with freeloaders?? or for that matter, your question was mainly about smokers and additional health costs. so what do freeloaders have to do with that question?

Go back a bit and read. In response to someone talking about taxes poor people pay, I pointed out that I pay those same taxes in addition to all the other taxes that the poor do not pay.
What the hell does the fact that I smoke a pack a day have to do with your group insurance premium. I'm not covered by it. I pay my health care costs out of pocket. Freeloaders do not. Hospitals have to cover costs to stay in business. I pay more to make up for those that don't pay at all.

people who do smoke, and have additional health issues because of it, do affect the premiums for those in their group. that's why i asked if you knew how group policies work.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I do. You see, I don't have health insurance. I pay my bills myself, so I actually help hold down the cost of health care by paying more a bit more than ins. company negotiated rates and making up for freeloaders that get care without paying the bill. Get it?

not really. if a person takes a job, and that company includes a benefits package as additional compensation, and a bunch of their employees smoke, have additional health problems and run up the premiums for the company, what's that got to do with freeloaders?? or for that matter, your question was mainly about smokers and additional health costs. so what do freeloaders have to do with that question?

Go back a bit and read. In response to someone talking about taxes poor people pay, I pointed out that I pay those same taxes in addition to all the other taxes that the poor do not pay.
What the hell does the fact that I smoke a pack a day have to do with your group insurance premium. I'm not covered by it. I pay my health care costs out of pocket. Freeloaders do not. Hospitals have to cover costs to stay in business. I pay more to make up for those that don't pay at all.

The little shit is delusional and enjoys putting words in peoples mouths...

He was pulling the same shit with me earlier..

The person (not comfortable with calling IT an individual) tried the same shit with me earlier. Apparently the collectivist has moved on.

 

[grunt11b]

we need to remove mortgage deduction & child exemption hand-outs too

These idiots can't figure out that the only politically survivable way to start taxing the poor, if there is such a way,

would be to raise the taxes of the not-poor in the process.

Having said that, Mitt Romney's tax plan cuts taxes for upper incomes and raises them on lower incomes...

...that may be, however, one of the best reasons he's probably going to lose, once everyone starts talking about his plan in detail.

Or the government can stop regulating jobs out of the country, and make it a more business friendly environment so that the poor can lift themselves out of poverty by obtaining a job. I know the idea of self preservation scares the shit out of some on the left, but the rest of us choose to make it on our own and do not see government as the go to guys for us to make a living.
The problem with this as far as progressives go is that they would then lose the voter block from the welfare system they created and need to win elections. Which is why America has such a hostile business environment right now, to people like Obama he would rather have citizens relying on government than to have them relying on themselves. If the keystone pipeline wasn't proof of that I dont know any other way to prove it.

 

[MikeK]

All we hear from the left is have the rich pay more. Give more . GIMME Why cant the poor pay something. Even if its 120 dollars a year .. YOu cant say a person cant afford 10 dollars a month .. I am sure they are wasting more then that on other things like fast food, cigarettes, booze. How many times I have been behind someone paying with food stamps and have beer and cigs they are about to buy as well.
But, if that wasnt bad enough they dont pay they get EIC as well so the rich people are paying them for nothing.

No matter what the situation there always has been and always will be the infamous ten percent who will take advantage of anything they can. They represent the slackers and freeloaders you've described above. But you shouldn't allow the existence of the ten percent to obscure the unfortunate reality of the remaining ninety percent, the working poor, those who for one reason or other are simply unable to get along on their meager incomes.

These are tough times. An increasing number of Americans are faced with circumstances that resemble the Great Depression. They are barely able to keep pace with rising prices, so imposing taxes on them will take food off their tables -- or possibly make them homeless.

At the other end are the rich and the super-rich who will still be rich or super-rich if their taxes are increased. And those who disagree with me should pay attention to such ultra-wealthy individuals as Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, George Soros, et. al., who have repeatedly stated that taxes on the rich should be increased. So why is it that the strongest opposition to raising taxes on the rich seems to come from those who don't have a pot to piss in and probably will never pay off their own credit card debt?

 

[bripat9643]

the 1% should pay everything

Why??

Because they have more money and it's only fair that they foot the bill for the rest.

That's the moral code of a thief. They rob rich people's houses for the same reason. The grocery store charges everyone the same price. That's called "fair dealing."

 

[Flopper]

i don't need the history lesson. The constitution as written originally did not include an income tax. We recieved it when we received this wonderful fiat money. All tools for bigger and bigger government. It's working perfectly.

And it didn't include the Bill of Rights, abolitionism of slavery, a definition of citizenship, or women's right to vote and many other changes made necessary by the growth of the country.

Without taxes a government can not function and an amendment to constitution to provide revenue was needed.

Did the 16th amendment void equal protection? Unless you can show me where it didn't, a progressive tax is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court has recognized that nearly all legislation classifies on the basis of some criteria, bestowing benefits or imposing burdens on one group and denying them to another. The progressive income tax, welfare, tax incentives to businesses, disaster relief, and most other legislation penalizes some group while benefiting another. No, the 16th amendment did void the equal protection clause because it does not apply.

 

[Ernie S.]

Sure, but will it matter? Of course not. You'll either ignore my post or call me another name.

Here we go anyway...

When you purchase insurance, you're paying in to a pool of people who are all insured and risk is spread out among the entire pool. If someone in the group gets sick, the money collected from the entire pool is used to cover that persons costs. Now, when someone decides to smoke a pack a day they are more than likely going to have greater health problems in their lifetime. This means more hospital visits, more medicine, more costs. More costs that have to be passed on to the entire group through higher premiums. So thanks again for raising the cost of my healthcare.

See my earlier reply. Before you assume you know me, I suggest you ask questions, asshole.

Sorry, I assumed you were a "contributing member to society". My fault. I 'll remember who I'm talking to next time.

So now that we know you're either too dumb or too broke yourself to have health insurance, I LOVE that you think thats actually better. Jesus, you people amaze me.

Oh and thanks for ending your post with calling me a name, exactly as I said you would. I feel like Nostradomus.

Do I need to pay a company $600/month to pay my $1,500/year medical expenses to be a contributing member of society? Why must I subsidize someone else's life style?

I'm obviously not dumb enough to spend $7,200/year for $1,200 worth of coverage.It simply is not logical for me to toss away 6 grand every year, given my current physical condition.
I assure you, I'm far from broke, but I would be, if I was in the habit of throwing away money. I ended my post by calling you an asshole for 2 reasons. #1, you more or less dared me to and #2, you are an asshole.

 

[Ernie S.]

not really. if a person takes a job, and that company includes a benefits package as additional compensation, and a bunch of their employees smoke, have additional health problems and run up the premiums for the company, what's that got to do with freeloaders?? or for that matter, your question was mainly about smokers and additional health costs. so what do freeloaders have to do with that question?

Go back a bit and read. In response to someone talking about taxes poor people pay, I pointed out that I pay those same taxes in addition to all the other taxes that the poor do not pay.
What the hell does the fact that I smoke a pack a day have to do with your group insurance premium. I'm not covered by it. I pay my health care costs out of pocket. Freeloaders do not. Hospitals have to cover costs to stay in business. I pay more to make up for those that don't pay at all.

people who do smoke, and have additional health issues because of it, do affect the premiums for those in their group. that's why i asked if you knew how group policies work.

Of course they do. I am not in a group insurance plan, so my smoking effects no one's health care premiums or cost, but my own. Do you understand that?

 

[Ernie S.]

And it didn't include the Bill of Rights, abolitionism of slavery, a definition of citizenship, or women's right to vote and many other changes made necessary by the growth of the country.

Without taxes a government can not function and an amendment to constitution to provide revenue was needed.

Did the 16th amendment void equal protection? Unless you can show me where it didn't, a progressive tax is unconstitutional.

The Supreme Court has recognized that nearly all legislation classifies on the basis of some criteria, bestowing benefits or imposing burdens on one group and denying them to another. The progressive income tax, welfare, tax incentives to businesses, disaster relief, and most other legislation penalizes some group while benefiting another. No, the 16th amendment did void the equal protection clause because it does not apply.

Could you show me how it doesn't apply? Or are you saying it only applies to the States?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The poor basically pay NO taxes.. period. You're not paying taxes when the bulk of what you pay for is paid for with somebody else's money.

You're welcome.

 

[Dot Com]

we need to remove mortgage deduction & child exemption hand-outs too

These idiots can't figure out that the only politically survivable way to start taxing the poor, if there is such a way,

would be to raise the taxes of the not-poor in the process.

Having said that, Mitt Romney's tax plan cuts taxes for upper incomes and raises them on lower incomes...

...that may be, however, one of the best reasons he's probably going to lose, once everyone starts talking about his plan in detail.

Or the government can stop regulating jobs out of the country, and make it a more business friendly environment so that the poor can lift themselves out of poverty by obtaining a job. I know the idea of self preservation scares the shit out of some on the left, but the rest of us choose to make it on our own and do not see government as the go to guys for us to make a living.
The problem with this as far as progressives go is that they would then lose the voter block from the welfare system they created and need to win elections. Which is why America has such a hostile business environment right now, to people like Obama he would rather have citizens relying on government than to have them relying on themselves. If the keystone pipeline wasn't proof of that I dont know any other way to prove it.

THIS Keystone pipeline? http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

KXL will require over 800,000 tons of carbon steel pipe.

TransCanada has contracted with an Indian multi-national company, the Mumbai-based Welspun Corp Limited, and a Russian company, Evraz, to manufacture steel pipe for KXL

 

[Againsheila]

All we hear from the left is have the rich pay more. Give more . GIMME Why cant the poor pay something. Even if its 120 dollars a year .. YOu cant say a person cant afford 10 dollars a month .. I am sure they are wasting more then that on other things like fast food, cigarettes, booze. How many times I have been behind someone paying with food stamps and have beer and cigs they are about to buy as well. But, if that wasnt bad enough they dont pay they get EIC as well so the rich people are paying them for nothing.

I know, they can do without gas for their car...no wait, then they can't get to work. They can do without heat for their homes...then can can freeze to death and won't be a problem for you, right?

 

[grunt11b]

These idiots can't figure out that the only politically survivable way to start taxing the poor, if there is such a way,

would be to raise the taxes of the not-poor in the process.

Having said that, Mitt Romney's tax plan cuts taxes for upper incomes and raises them on lower incomes...

...that may be, however, one of the best reasons he's probably going to lose, once everyone starts talking about his plan in detail.

Or the government can stop regulating jobs out of the country, and make it a more business friendly environment so that the poor can lift themselves out of poverty by obtaining a job. I know the idea of self preservation scares the shit out of some on the left, but the rest of us choose to make it on our own and do not see government as the go to guys for us to make a living.
The problem with this as far as progressives go is that they would then lose the voter block from the welfare system they created and need to win elections. Which is why America has such a hostile business environment right now, to people like Obama he would rather have citizens relying on government than to have them relying on themselves. If the keystone pipeline wasn't proof of that I dont know any other way to prove it.

THIS Keystone pipeline? http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

KXL will require over 800,000 tons of carbon steel pipe.

TransCanada has contracted with an Indian multi-national company, the Mumbai-based Welspun Corp Limited, and a Russian company, Evraz, to manufacture steel pipe for KXL

Who cares where the pipe is made? Obama failed his union supporters by not allowing the pipeline to be built and the union jobs that would have been created afterwards. He demagogued it, just like he does all job creation, he talks alot about it, but in the end he could care less if people are working or not.

 

[Dot Com]

Or the government can stop regulating jobs out of the country, and make it a more business friendly environment so that the poor can lift themselves out of poverty by obtaining a job. I know the idea of self preservation scares the shit out of some on the left, but the rest of us choose to make it on our own and do not see government as the go to guys for us to make a living.
The problem with this as far as progressives go is that they would then lose the voter block from the welfare system they created and need to win elections. Which is why America has such a hostile business environment right now, to people like Obama he would rather have citizens relying on government than to have them relying on themselves. If the keystone pipeline wasn't proof of that I dont know any other way to prove it.

THIS Keystone pipeline? http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

Who cares where the pipe is made? Obama failed his union supporters by not allowing the pipeline to be built and the union jobs that would have been created afterwards. He demagogued it, just like he does all job creation, he talks alot about it, but in the end he could care less if people are working or not.

where are you getting your info? You didn't just make that up did you?

http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf

» The company’s claim that KXL will create 20,000 direct construction and
manufacturing jobs in the U.S is not substantiated


» The project will create no more than 2,500-4,650 temporary direct construction
jobs for two years, according to TransCanada’s own data supplied to the State
Department.

 

[gallantwarrior]

There is a whole lot of class warfare going on in this thread.

Not sure why so many people are jealous of the poor. If they have it so good, you're free to join them and reap those "rewards".

Anyone who bitches about the great advantages that a poor person has must lead one amazing life. Congrats.

Some of us have more pride and self-respect than to accept the lifestyle of the poor and useless...well, they're very useful as Obamabots who will vote for anyone who mouths the promises they want to hear.

 

[merrill]

All we hear from the left is have the rich pay more. Give more . GIMME Why cant the poor pay something. Even if its 120 dollars a year .. YOu cant say a person cant afford 10 dollars a month .. I am sure they are wasting more then that on other things like fast food, cigarettes, booze. How many times I have been behind someone paying with food stamps and have beer and cigs they are about to buy as well. But, if that wasnt bad enough they dont pay they get EIC as well so the rich people are paying them for nothing.

You don't know what you are talking about? All working poor and working middleclasses pay income tax initially.

If they make too little money it may get refunded.

What do you want an increase in the cost of Social Services instead?

There are tons of wealthy families and business/corporations that pay no taxes yet you don't bitch about that?

Food stamps cannot pay for alcohol and tobacco = you are not paying attention or you are just making it up.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

Go back a bit and read. In response to someone talking about taxes poor people pay, I pointed out that I pay those same taxes in addition to all the other taxes that the poor do not pay.
What the hell does the fact that I smoke a pack a day have to do with your group insurance premium. I'm not covered by it. I pay my health care costs out of pocket. Freeloaders do not. Hospitals have to cover costs to stay in business. I pay more to make up for those that don't pay at all.

people who do smoke, and have additional health issues because of it, do affect the premiums for those in their group. that's why i asked if you knew how group policies work.

Of course they do. I am not in a group insurance plan, so my smoking effects no one's health care premiums or cost, but my own. Do you understand that?

yes. people that are not in group plans don't affect people in group plans.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

The 16th amendment does not mandate an income tax.

then how the heck are we gonna fight all these wars, have welfare for individuals and companies and run militaries for other countries? oh, and give other countries money to do what we say?

You either missed the point, do not understand what "mandate" means, or both.

 

[M14 Shooter]

do you know how group policies work? or how insurance companies determine their premiums?

I do. You see, I don't have health insurance. I pay my bills myself, so I actually help hold down the cost of health care by paying more a bit more than ins. company negotiated rates and making up for freeloaders that get care without paying the bill. Get it?

Bwahahahaha, so your NOT having health insurance is keeping costs down for us?? Holy fuck, I've heard it all now.

Ok, be honest, you're fucking with us, right????

The point remains -- if he is paying for his health care out of pocket, it raises costs for no one.