Why is this Michigan football sign-stealing investigation being treated as such a big deal?

[Couchpotato]

If they ban Harbaugh, a lot of others coaches, including Ohio State, should be facing penalties as well, considering the info that has come out now about how they, Purdue, and another team were trading information about Michigan’s signs. But the NCAA is consistently inconsistent with punishments and other things.

They did ban Harbaugh from the sideline for 3 games. Is it “illegal“ to trade information about signs?

 

[odanny]

But do they have proof that Harbaugh either had direct knowledge of this, or somehow was directly nvolved in it taking place?

You have to assume they do have proof of this, speculation is not enough.

 

[Couchpotato]

But do they have proof that Harbaugh either had direct knowledge of this, or somehow was directly nvolved in it taking place?

You have to assume they do have proof of this, speculation is not enough.

I woukd guess or they wouldn’t have banned him from the sideline.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

If they ban Harbaugh, a lot of others coaches, including Ohio State, should be facing penalties as well, considering the info that has come out now about how they, Purdue, and another team were trading information about Michigan’s signs. But the NCAA is consistently inconsistent with punishments and other things.

Yep. OSU would be the “in person scout” who stole signs and gave them to Purdue.

Same result. This is the Big 10 commish crumbling to a bunch of salty losers who do the same thing to get the same results just a different way

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I woukd guess or they wouldn’t have banned him from the sideline.

The Big 10 commish doesn’t need evidence to act, but Michigan can file an injunction for damages. I think that’s why the Big 10 waited til late Friday, to make Michigan scramble to get a judge who will halt this breach of due process

 

[Couchpotato]

The Big 10 commish doesn’t need evidence to act, but Michigan can file an injunction for damages. I think that’s why the Big 10 waited til late Friday, to make Michigan scramble to get a judge who will halt this breach of due process

Could be. I’ll say it’s weak sauce doing this right before the PSU game imo.

 

[lennypartiv]

But do they have proof that Harbaugh either had direct knowledge of this, or somehow was directly nvolved in it taking place?

You have to assume they do have proof of this, speculation is not enough.

Head coaches and athletic directors are supposed to have "control" of their programs. Knowledge of the crime when it happened is not necessary. Look up previous punishments by the NCAA.

 

[Couchpotato]

Yep. OSU would be the “in person scout” who stole signs and gave them to Purdue.

Same result. This is the Big 10 commish crumbling to a bunch of salty losers who do the same thing to get the same results just a different way

But inside the rules. You can bitch all you want that the rule is stupid but it’s a rule, has been for decades and Michigan had to know they were violating it. Everyone drives 78 in a 70. Harbaugh was going 95 in a red Vette.

 

[lantern2814]

Yep. OSU would be the “in person scout” who stole signs and gave them to Purdue.

Same result. This is the Big 10 commish crumbling to a bunch of salty losers who do the same thing to get the same results just a different way

Even other coaches have admitted this happens. There really isn’t a good way to police this. Any coach can call a friend who lives in say (since we’re in Big 10 country), Madison, Wisconsin and ask if he’s “going to the game this week” and ask him to see if he can figure out some signs since his team is playing the Badgers a week later. How does the NCAA stop things like that?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Even other coaches have admitted this happens. There really isn’t a good way to police this. Any coach can call a friend who lives in say (since we’re in Big 10 country), Madison, Wisconsin and ask if he’s “going to the game this week” and ask him to see if he can figure out some signs since his team is playing the Badgers a week later. How does the NCAA stop things like that?

They don’t.. but apparently a group of pouting losing teams (Ohio State, Purdue,etc) can join together to pressure a weak, first-year conference commissioner to breach the due process standards in the conference hand book and prematurely act against the best team (Michigan) that is making all the other teams whine and throw temper tantrums after losing (as they all scout and get Michigan signs beforehand too)

 

[Couchpotato]

They don’t.. but apparently a group of pouting losing teams (Ohio State, Purdue,etc) can join together to pressure a weak, first-year conference commissioner to breach the due process standards in the conference hand book and prematurely act against the best team (Michigan) that is making all the other teams whine and throw temper tantrums after losing (as they all scout and get Michigan signs beforehand too)

Are you really saying Michigan wasn't in violation of the rules? That it wasn't a systematic effort to violate them? They have spreadsheets, with who's going to which games and expenses. Signals and what they mean. The only group who's whiny is the Michigan fans. The sad part is they probably are the best team in the BIG10 who had a legit shot a winning a natty, but they cheated anyway, and it's apparently been going on for YEARS. There's a simple way for this to not happen. Don't violate the rules. If there's no advantage, why were they doing it? If Michigan needs to steal Purdue's signals to beat them they have zero chance of beating OSU or UGA in a straight up contest anyway.

 

[Blaster]

Michigan should be forced to forfeit the rest of their season.

 

[Couchpotato]

Michigan should be forced to forfeit the rest of their season.

That ultimately might be what the NCAA decides.

 

[Blaster]

Harbaugh is trying to emulate Bill Belichick.

 

[Couchpotato]

Harbaugh is trying to emulate Bill Belichick.

And that’s the weirdest part about all this it’s not like someone hasn’t tried this and gotten in a world of trouble over it.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Are you really saying Michigan wasn't in violation of the rules?

Yes, it was metaphorically equivalent to jaywalking though

That it wasn't a systematic effort to violate them? They have spreadsheets, with who's going to which games and expenses. Signals and what they mean.

Since we know other teams had/and continue to have) Michigan signals going into games against them… my question is: who cares how they get the signs? If having teams’ signs before you play them is bad, then many teams are proven to have done it, probably just a different way.

You’re caught up on the logistics, completely oblivious to the big picture.

There's a simple way for this to not happen. Don't violate the rules.

1. Tell that to the other teams that also did advanced, in-person scouting (OSU, Rutgers, and Purdue) or STFU

 

[Mr. Friscus]

And that’s the weirdest part about all this it’s not like someone hasn’t tried this and gotten in a world of trouble over it.

The patriots secretly taped practices.. that’s one million percent different than scouting teams while they play their games on game day

 

[Couchpotato]

Yes, it was metaphorically equivalent to jaywalking though

In your opinion.

Lets be clear about what happened. They paid multiple people to fly all over the country to their opponents (and prospective opponents) games, purchased tickets (I assume they were decent tickets in order for them to have a view of the signals) hotel, per diem, rental car etc etc. They would have had to have decent recording equipment, so there's the purchase of that equipment, maintenance etc. Actions which they KNEW were against the rules, and could get them sanctioned by the NCAA and BIG10. They did this (according to you) to gain little to no competitive advantage. That their actions didnt cause Michigan to have an edge over their opponents who didnt do what they were doing. Is that really what we are supposed to believe? If that's true then Harbaugh is more of an idiot than him cheating in this way when he's got the best team in the BIG10 makes him out to be.

Since we know other teams had/and continue to have) Michigan signals going into games against them… my question is: who cares how they get the signs? If having teams’ signs before you play them is bad, then many teams are proven to have done it, probably just a different way.

Apparently the NCAA. A fact Michigan knew. It's one thing if opposing teams figure out your signals in game from across the sidelines where you know they are looking from. At least then you can attempt to circumvent that from happening. What Michigan did was do so in a way that other teams (who followed the rules) didn't have and assumed wasn't happening to them. Because it was you know against the rules.

You’re caught up on the logistics, completely oblivious to the big picture.

Nope. Caught up in what the rules are and who did and didnt followed them. Look I think the rule is stupid. I think its dumb that we force teams to even have to use signals given current technology. Doesn't change that everyone has to play by the same rules and you don't get to break the rules just because you think they are stupid. Or if you do that you dont have to suffer the consequences of that decision. It would be different if it happened once or twice, where some over zealous low level coach did this on his own, used his own money to get an advantage. That's not what happened. They had a budget, they were doing this over multiple years etc.

1. Tell that to the other teams that also did advanced, in-person scouting (OSU, Rutgers, and Purdue) or STFU

Show evidence that they broke the rules and I'm all for their coaches getting the same punishment as Harbaugh. I'll wait.

The patriots secretly taped practices.. that’s one million percent different than scouting teams while they play their games on game day

In your opinion.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

In your opinion.

Lets be clear about what happened. They paid multiple people to fly all over the country to their opponents (and prospective opponents) games, purchased tickets (I assume they were decent tickets in order for them to have a view of the signals) hotel, per diem, rental car etc etc. They would have had to have decent recording equipment, so there's the purchase of that equipment, maintenance etc. Actions which they KNEW were against the rules, and could get them sanctioned by the NCAA and BIG10. They did this (according to you) to gain little to no competitive advantage. That their actions didnt cause Michigan to have an edge over their opponents who didnt do what they were doing. Is that really what we are supposed to believe? If that's true then Harbaugh is more of an idiot than him cheating in this way when he's got the best team in the BIG10 makes him out to be.

Apparently the NCAA. A fact Michigan knew. It's one thing if opposing teams figure out your signals in game from across the sidelines where you know they are looking from. At least then you can attempt to circumvent that from happening. What Michigan did was do so in a way that other teams (who followed the rules) didn't have and assumed wasn't happening to them. Because it was you know against the rules.

Nope. Caught up in what the rules are and who did and didnt followed them. Look I think the rule is stupid. I think its dumb that we force teams to even have to use signals given current technology. Doesn't change that everyone has to play by the same rules and you don't get to break the rules just because you think they are stupid. Or if you do that you dont have to suffer the consequences of that decision. It would be different if it happened once or twice, where some over zealous low level coach did this on his own, used his own money to get an advantage. That's not what happened. They had a budget, they were doing this over multiple years etc.


Show evidence that they broke the rules and I'm all for their coaches getting the same punishment as Harbaugh. I'll wait.



In your opinion.

Such an uncompelling take from you here. By your logic there is no such thing as unjust punishment.

What’s weird is how the Big 10 commish went completely rogue here based on no evidence. The Big 10 isn’t performing an investigation, the NCAA is. There’s due process clauses in the Big 10 handbook that prevent this, the commish ignored them, and made sure to implement it on a Friday at 4pm on Veterans Day to screw a team out of their coach who will file an injunction and nearly certainly get a stay. This all stinks to high heavens. I’m fine with a fine or minimal punishment if you need to. The media/Big 10/NCAA have been treating this like the MSM/CNN/MSNBC/Democrats have been treating January 6th.. with absolute ridiculous hyperbole

 

[lennypartiv]

I thought they found evidence on a computer. Lists of tickets bought for games of future opponents. Weren't all these tickets located on the 45 yard line? Coincidence?