Why Is Military Service Required In Some Countries?

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Quite a few rich people were drafted or volunteered.

Ross Perot came from a very wealthy banking family, and he served in the Navy for 4 years.

John McIlhenny came from a very wealthy and prominent family, who created the "Tabasco Sauce" company. He resigned from the company to serve in the Spanish-American War with the Rough Riders.

His son Walter McIlhenny was in the executive training program so he could replace his dad when he retired. He was already in the Marine Reserve, and saw extensive service in the Pacific (earning the nickname "Tabasco Mac"). And being awarded the Navy Cross, Silver Star, and Purple Heart. And served for a total of 41 years, retiring from the Marine Reserves as a Brigadier General.

And of course Jimmy Stuart, who enlisted in early 1941 (on his third attempt, he was rejected twice in 1940 for weight). And since he was already a pilot he was fast tracked to being a flight instructor in the Air Force.

Others were Buddy Ebsen, Cesar Romero, Clark Gable, Ted Williams, Al Gore, John Kerry, Elvis Presley, the list goes on and on. The old claim that the sons of the rich or powerful never served is nonsense.

Oh, and all 4 of Ambassador Joseph Kennedy's sons served. Joe Jr, John, Robert, and Edward.

Most people do not realize that Al Gore was a carpal tunnel rat in Vietnam!

 

[Mushroom]

And no alternative such as public service. A free republic is maintained by force of arms, not taking meals on wheels to old folks. Public service is wonderful, and I applaud those who do it. But it is the men and women standing ready to cry havoc and loose the dogs of war on those who would harm us and take away our freedom who keep us safe and free.

Actually, such was available during WWII, and the Korean and Vietnam Wars. It was Civilian Public Service during WWII, and the Alternative Service Program after that. During WWII, most did things that the earlier Civilian Conservation Corps was doing, like park maintenance and upgrades. But others worked in medical facilities or mental institutions, or even fighting forest fires.

During Vietnam, over 170,000 served in the ASP.

That's what government is for, so doing a stretch bearing arms is a good way to make sure voters have skin in the game.

I highly recommend the book, "Starship Troopers," on which the movie is very, very losely based. The book has all the action and more but posits a government run by veterans which leaves the private sector to operate freely while the military protects it.

Actually, Starship Troopers is much more nuanced if one actually reads it.

Those in charge by that point were not all "Veterans", but they had done I want to say at least 2 to 4 years in "Federal Service". And that could be in the military, but also working in medical clinics, doing research for the government (in the book Carl worked in R&D, he was not a mind reading SS officer like in the movie), or anything else. Even if one was mentally or physically impaired they would find something they were capable of doing, but they had to put in time in Federal Service in order to gain all rights in the society. With the idea that only those who had worked and even risked their own lives for the society could be trusted with authority over the society. Those that did nothing for others could not be trusted with wide responsibility over others.

While many try to see it as a kind of "White Elite Fascism", in fact it was anything but. But the movie did no favors there, casting Casper Van Dien when the actually "Johnny Rico" looked nothing like that at all. The author only dropped in the last page or two that the hero of the book was actually from the Philippines. Something most readers would not know unless they caught the single dropped line about his speaking Tagalog.

I said, "There ought to be one named 'Magsaysay'."
Bennie said, "What?"
"Ramon Magsaysay," I explained. "Great man, great soldier -- probably
be chief of psychological warfare if he was alive today. Didn't you
study any history?"
"Well," admitted Bennie, "I learned that Simon Bolivar built the
Pyramids, licked the Armada, and made the first trip to the Moon."
"You left out marrying Cleopatra," I said.
"Oh, that. Yup. Well, I guess every country has its own version of
history."
"I'm sure of it." I added something to myself and Bennie said, "What
did you say?"
"Sorry, Bernardo. Just an old saying in my own language. I suppose
you could translate it, more or less, as `Home is where the heart is.'"
"But what language was it?"
"Tagalog. My native language."
"Don't they talk Standard English where you come from?"
"Oh, certainly. For business and school and so forth. We just talk
the old speech around home a little. Traditions, you know."
"Yeah, I know. My folks chatter in Español the same way. But where
do you--" The speaker started playing "Meadowland"; Bennie broke into
a grin. "Got a date with a ship! Watch yourself, fellow! See you."

 

[Seymour Flops]

Actually, such was available during WWII, and the Korean and Vietnam Wars. It was Civilian Public Service during WWII, and the Alternative Service Program after that. During WWII, most did things that the earlier Civilian Conservation Corps was doing, like park maintenance and upgrades. But others worked in medical facilities or mental institutions, or even fighting forest fires.

During Vietnam, over 170,000 served in the ASP.

I have no problem with people serving in such position if they are concientious objectors to being drafted. But I would not use it as a qualification to vote, in my hypothetical veteran electorate

Actually, Starship Troopers is much more nuanced if one actually reads it.

I actually read it several times, I assure you. But it has been a while, so feel free to correct me.

Those in charge by that point were not all "Veterans", but they had done I want to say at least 2 to 4 years in "Federal Service". And that could be in the military, but also working in medical clinics, doing research for the government (in the book Carl worked in R&D, he was not a mind reading SS officer like in the movie), or anything else. Even if one was mentally or physically impaired they would find something they were capable of doing, but they had to put in time in Federal Service in order to gain all rights in the society. With the idea that only those who had worked and even risked their own lives for the society could be trusted with authority over the society. Those that did nothing for others could not be trusted with wide responsibility over others.

True. I offered the simplified version since I doubt there are many novel readers among those with whom I often disagree. Although one of them seemed fascinated by a picture of a bodice ripper model in a kilt.

Anyway, I would not accept any service except armed service. I liked the idea of service being available for all. An impaired person can be wheeled into a bomber and have their finger on the button that opens the door. Even if the military prefers putting able-bodies people in those jobs, the fact that the disabled person volunteers to kill or die if required means that they have shown willingness to put their lives on the line to protect the citizens and non-citizen residents of the country. Like most of the military, they would likely wind up in the rear with the gear.

I would also accept some kind of anti-crime militia as qualifying for citizenship. Again, they would bear arms to protect their countrymen and women.

That is what government's only legitimate function is, so it makes sense that it be staffed by people who have done that.

While many try to see it as a kind of "White Elite Fascism", in fact it was anything but. But the movie did no favors there, casting Casper Van Dien when the actually "Johnny Rico" looked nothing like that at all. The author only dropped in the last page or two that the hero of the book was actually from the Philippines. Something most readers would not know unless they caught the single dropped line about his speaking Tagalog.

Yes, and wasn't Dizzy Flores a male squad member of an elite Marine-like unit, not a blonde with fake tits who showered with the guys? If I'm not mistaken, the fact that Rico was Filipino and spoke Tagalog was not mention until later in the book. Or maybe it was early in the book and I didn't catch it the first time I read it.

It talked about him being from Buenos Aires so I pictured him as a light-skinned Hispanic/German mix. The tough sergeant in the book mentioned that he had only learned "New Standard English" (I think they called it) when he joined the military, so there was no reason for a white actor to play him.

The movie whitened it up because Hollywood is very racist.

 

[Mushroom]

It talked about him being from Buenos Aires so I pictured him as a light-skinned Hispanic/German mix. The tough sergeant in the book mentioned that he had only learned "New Standard English" (I think they called it) when he joined the military, so there was no reason for a white actor to play him.

Actually, he was not from BA. His mom was visiting there, but they did not live there. That is why she died, but his father was alive. Because he was working and not on vacation with her.

Also, towards the end his own father joined also and worked under him. As even adults in their 40s could still join and serve.

Also, I found it a bit disappointing that the "specialty segregation" was eliminated. Indeed in the book Dizzy was a guy, all in the MI were men. But also, all pilots were women. The book reasoning was that women had superior reflexes and faster mathematical abilities as well as handling higher G-forces better than men so made the best pilots.

I know that for around a decade many have been trying to get a more faithful adaptation of the book into a movie. But every time it is announced people start screaming it is a fascist and racist book and it gets shut down. Which honestly saddens me, and shows how few have actually read the book. As indeed the MI was a "Global Army", and the members were of all races and nationalities. Any that say that have obviously only seen the white washed Nazified movie and never even picked up the book.

I for one think it would be awesome to have a Filipino as an "action hero". I could even see somebody like Manny Jacinto as Johnny, and Lou Diamond Phillips as his father. Which he would probably enjoy after a career playing generally Latinos, when he actually is of Philippine descent.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Actually, he was not from BA. His mom was visiting there, but they did not live there. That is why she died, but his father was alive. Because he was working and not on vacation with her.

Also, towards the end his own father joined also and worked under him. As even adults in their 40s could still join and serve.

Also, I found it a bit disappointing that the "specialty segregation" was eliminated. Indeed in the book Dizzy was a guy, all in the MI were men. But also, all pilots were women. The book reasoning was that women had superior reflexes and faster mathematical abilities as well as handling higher G-forces better than men so made the best pilots.

I know that for around a decade many have been trying to get a more faithful adaptation of the book into a movie. But every time it is announced people start screaming it is a fascist and racist book and it gets shut down. Which honestly saddens me, and shows how few have actually read the book. As indeed the MI was a "Global Army", and the members were of all races and nationalities. Any that say that have obviously only seen the white washed Nazified movie and never even picked up the book.

I for one think it would be awesome to have a Filipino as an "action hero". I could even see somebody like Manny Jacinto as Johnny, and Lou Diamond Phillips as his father. Which he would probably enjoy after a career playing generally Latinos, when he actually is of Philippine descent.

Only on his mother's side.