Why have there not been successful peace negotiations?

[Beelzebub]

Well, there are many reasons.

Failed negotiations are often because each side's "must haves" have no overlapping ground.
In other cases it can be because the negotiating parties do not have authority to make the concessions that they are willing to make.
Sometimes, it is because the BATNA: Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement - is just too good for one or both parties.

I would suggest that ALL of the above have played a part over the years. I thought it might be interesting to explore these, and possibly other reasons.

I am not saying we might find The Formula (!!!) but who knows. Maybe here, will be the crystal which we can communicate to our respective campaigns, and it will all be settled next year, so the I/P board will be all about sharing food recipes.

 

[Beelzebub]

Here we go.

This story illustrates that the Israeli side might prefer no peace agreement:

In the midst of a blame game between Israel and the Palestinians over the collapse of the talks, the president pulled the rug from under the Israeli version of events.
By*Yossi Verter |*May 10, 2014 | 11:09 AM

How Peres ruined Netanyahu's Independence Day - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz
It’s not hard to understand why Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was livid with rage at the end of Independence Day. His blood boiled when he learned what President Shimon Peres had said in a television interview: That Peres had all but reached a historic agreement with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas three years ago, but it had been shot down by the prime minister.

This story itself is not new. It was reported in real time, when at the last minute, Netanyahu ordered Peres to cancel a trip to Jordan, where he planned to sign a series of accords that were to set in motion direct talks between the Israeli and Palestinian leaders.

The contacts between the president of Israel and his longtime friend, the Palestinian president (with the full authority and knowledge of the prime minister), are an open secret. Peres has shared the relevant details, in full or in part, with many people over the years. For example, according to Peres, he and his counterpart agreed to resolve the dispute over recognition of Israel as a Jewish state by means of an original idea, whereby the peace agreement would be signed “on behalf of the Palestinian state” by President Abbas, and “on behalf of the Jewish state” by Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Thus, Peres believed in the past – and continues to believe – that without militant declarations and without anyone setting conditions, Abbas would recognize de facto that Israel is the Jewish nation-state. Peres believes that Netanyahu’s militancy and insistence on making this principle a huge political banner pushed Abbas into a corner and left him no choice but to reject the idea outright.

Besides the holiday gift that ruined Netanyahu’s fun on Independence Day, Peres behaved with perfect decorum. In all the interviews he gave – to newspapers, television channels and Internet sites – he was piously respectful to Netanyahu.

For his part, Peres will celebrate his own independence after he steps down as president, midsummer. Indeed, in the interviews, in which he came across as lucid and sharp, he did not speak of the vast disappointment he has felt vis-a-vis Netanyahu in the five years they have worked together. He did not share with the public the immense frustration he feels as his term draws to a close. He did not say who he thinks is most to blame for the fact that Israel’s international status in the middle of 2014 is gloomier and darker than it was in the middle of 2009, when Netanyahu was elected and promised Peres the moon.

Naively, the president believed him and traveled the world, persuading leaders everywhere that the “new” Bibi would not let history pass him by without leaving his imprint. And after every globe-trotting PR mission he conducted for Netanyahu, Peres was greeted with deliberate leaks from the Prime Minister’s Bureau to the effect that the institution of the presidency should be eliminated because of its “wastefulness and ostentation.” Who was saying this about him? None other than the Spartan monk from the residence on Balfour Street in Jerusalem.

 

[toastman]

Are you familiar with the offer that Arafart received?

 

[Beelzebub]

Well, someone has to make a claim about it Toast.

Would you like to be the first?
Go ahead!

 

[toastman]

Well, someone has to make a claim about it Toast.

Would you like to be the first?
Go ahead!

Claim? It's not a claim. Have you not heard of the camp david summit??

 

[Moonglow]

Ancient history......neither side can get what they want and keep what they have,,,

 

[Lipush]

Here we go.

This story illustrates that the Israeli side might prefer no peace agreement:

In the midst of a blame game between Israel and the Palestinians over the collapse of the talks, the president pulled the rug from under the Israeli version of events.
By*Yossi Verter |*May 10, 2014 | 11:09 AM

How Peres ruined Netanyahu's Independence Day - Diplomacy and Defense Israel News | Haaretz
It’s not hard to understand why Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was livid with rage at the end of Independence Day. His blood boiled when he learned what President Shimon Peres had said in a television interview: That Peres had all but reached a historic agreement with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas three years ago, but it had been shot down by the prime minister.

This story itself is not new. It was reported in real time, when at the last minute, Netanyahu ordered Peres to cancel a trip to Jordan, where he planned to sign a series of accords that were to set in motion direct talks between the Israeli and Palestinian leaders.

The contacts between the president of Israel and his longtime friend, the Palestinian president (with the full authority and knowledge of the prime minister), are an open secret. Peres has shared the relevant details, in full or in part, with many people over the years. For example, according to Peres, he and his counterpart agreed to resolve the dispute over recognition of Israel as a Jewish state by means of an original idea, whereby the peace agreement would be signed “on behalf of the Palestinian state” by President Abbas, and “on behalf of the Jewish state” by Prime Minister Netanyahu.

Thus, Peres believed in the past – and continues to believe – that without militant declarations and without anyone setting conditions, Abbas would recognize de facto that Israel is the Jewish nation-state. Peres believes that Netanyahu’s militancy and insistence on making this principle a huge political banner pushed Abbas into a corner and left him no choice but to reject the idea outright.

Besides the holiday gift that ruined Netanyahu’s fun on Independence Day, Peres behaved with perfect decorum. In all the interviews he gave – to newspapers, television channels and Internet sites – he was piously respectful to Netanyahu.

For his part, Peres will celebrate his own independence after he steps down as president, midsummer. Indeed, in the interviews, in which he came across as lucid and sharp, he did not speak of the vast disappointment he has felt vis-a-vis Netanyahu in the five years they have worked together. He did not share with the public the immense frustration he feels as his term draws to a close. He did not say who he thinks is most to blame for the fact that Israel’s international status in the middle of 2014 is gloomier and darker than it was in the middle of 2009, when Netanyahu was elected and promised Peres the moon.

Naively, the president believed him and traveled the world, persuading leaders everywhere that the “new” Bibi would not let history pass him by without leaving his imprint. And after every globe-trotting PR mission he conducted for Netanyahu, Peres was greeted with deliberate leaks from the Prime Minister’s Bureau to the effect that the institution of the presidency should be eliminated because of its “wastefulness and ostentation.” Who was saying this about him? None other than the Spartan monk from the residence on Balfour Street in Jerusalem.

With all respect to Peres, how is he relevant to the peace process?

 

[proudveteran06]

Well, someone has to make a claim about it Toast.

Would you like to be the first?
Go ahead!

Claim? It's not a claim. Have you not heard of the camp david summit??

Know when a Pro Palestinian lies? Everytime they open their mouth



Is the Arab Peace Plan Really About Peace? « Commentary Magazine


http://www.jewlicious.com/2009/05/abbas-confirms-olmert-gave-an-insanely-generous-offer/


Israeli President says Netanyahu nixed peace deal with Abbas - The Globe and Mail


He said that he and Mr. Abbas also reached agreement on how to deal with the borders of the Palestinian state: They elected to talk only about the size of the state rather than its specific borders. This approach would allow for territorial exchanges to take place and permit Israel to retain some of its large settlement blocs in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Mr. Netanyahu’s office, in response to Mr. Peres’s television appearance, denied that an agreement had been imminent.

“Abu Mazen did not agree to anything,” an official in the Prime Minister’s office told the Times of Israel, referring to Mr. Abbas by his familiar name. “All he wanted was to receive and give nothing in return.


We know the above is true because these are the Demands he has now . When any Pro Palestinian is asked about what Abbas is doing to " negotiate" they can't answer because he isn't.


TV report: Abbas said 'no' to Obama on 3 core peace issues | The Times of Israel

\Specifically, the report said, Abbas rejected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s demand that he recognize Israel as a Jewish state. He also refused to abandon the Palestinian demand for a “right of return” for millions of Palestinians and their descendants — a demand that, if implemented, would drastically alter Israel’s demographic balance and which no conceivable Israeli government would accept. And finally, he refused to commit to an “end of conflict,” under which a peace deal would represent the termination of any further Palestinian demands of Israel.


Don't confuse the Pro Palestinian with the facts


Abbas wants 'not a single Israeli' in future Palestinian state | Reuters


"In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli - civilian or soldier - on our lands," Abbas said in a briefing to mostly Egyptian journalists.


The Racist sees nothing wrong with this.....

 

[aris2chat]

>>"In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli - civilian or soldier - on our lands," Abbas said in a briefing to mostly Egyptian journalists.


The Racist sees nothing wrong with this..... <<

not as long as it is said in arabic and to a favorable arabic audience.

 

[montelatici]

So, not only do the Palestinians have to accept 10% of the land they once lived on they also have to accept Jewish settlers which means that the Israelis will want to maintain soldiers in Palestine to protect said Jews.

You have to admit they are clever, turning it all around to make it appear that it is simply the Arabs being racists never admitting that preventing the right of return to people whose ancestors had lived on the land for two thousand years while allowing Jews to immigrate freely is the actual racist policy.

 

[proudveteran06]

So, not only do the Palestinians have to accept 10% of the land they once lived on they also have to accept Jewish settlers which means that the Israelis will want to maintain soldiers in Palestine to protect said Jews.

You have to admit they are clever, turning it all around to make it appear that it is simply the Arabs being racists never admitting that preventing the right of return to people whose ancestors had lived on the land for two thousand years while allowing Jews to immigrate freely is the actual racist policy.

Try reading the subject matter slowly; " Why have there not been successful peace negotiations". Israel is not going to comply with every single Palestinian Demand . What are they willing to do to " negotiate?" There will be no response.

 

[toastman]

So, not only do the Palestinians have to accept 10% of the land they once lived on they also have to accept Jewish settlers which means that the Israelis will want to maintain soldiers in Palestine to protect said Jews.

You have to admit they are clever, turning it all around to make it appear that it is simply the Arabs being racists never admitting that preventing the right of return to people whose ancestors had lived on the land for two thousand years while allowing Jews to immigrate freely is the actual racist policy.

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

 

[aris2chat]

So, not only do the Palestinians have to accept 10% of the land they once lived on they also have to accept Jewish settlers which means that the Israelis will want to maintain soldiers in Palestine to protect said Jews.

You have to admit they are clever, turning it all around to make it appear that it is simply the Arabs being racists never admitting that preventing the right of return to people whose ancestors had lived on the land for two thousand years while allowing Jews to immigrate freely is the actual racist policy.

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

 

[montelatici]

So, not only do the Palestinians have to accept 10% of the land they once lived on they also have to accept Jewish settlers which means that the Israelis will want to maintain soldiers in Palestine to protect said Jews.

You have to admit they are clever, turning it all around to make it appear that it is simply the Arabs being racists never admitting that preventing the right of return to people whose ancestors had lived on the land for two thousand years while allowing Jews to immigrate freely is the actual racist policy.

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

 

[MJB12741]

Good point about sharing food recipes. Thanks for reminding us about that. Remember what happened the last time you tried that? Oh that Mrs. Bullit. Heh Heh!

Well, there are many reasons.

Failed negotiations are often because each side's "must haves" have no overlapping ground.
In other cases it can be because the negotiating parties do not have authority to make the concessions that they are willing to make.
Sometimes, it is because the BATNA: Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement - is just too good for one or both parties.

I would suggest that ALL of the above have played a part over the years. I thought it might be interesting to explore these, and possibly other reasons.

I am not saying we might find The Formula (!!!) but who knows. Maybe here, will be the crystal which we can communicate to our respective campaigns, and it will all be settled next year, so the I/P board will be all about sharing food recipes.

 

[toastman]

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

Well if they don't want a state, why are they whining that Israel still rules the West Bank?
You make no sense

 

[MJB12741]

He never has made any sense. But he sure is fun for us.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

Well if they don't want a state, why are they whining that Israel still rules the West Bank?
You make no sense

 

[proudveteran06]

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

Translation; They are not going to get the State THEY want which is Borders that were never recognized in the first place, Control of ALL of Jerusalem and " Right of Return" which would annex Israel to Palestine in time .

 

[MJB12741]

Problem is no surrounding Arab country to Israel will grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands. And the Palestinians want no part of Israeli rule or intervention. Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?

The offer was practically the entire West Bank. You don't get it do you??
Had he accepted the deal, there would be peace and the Palestinians would have their own state.
You guys ALWAYS make some bullshit excuse for why the Palestinians and frankly, the world is watching them turn down every offer.

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

 

[montelatici]

The longer and more difficult the wait, the less there will be offered to the palestinians.

I don't think you get it, the Palestinians are no longer expecting a Palestinian state. Might as well offer nothing now, it really doesn't matter.

Well if they don't want a state, why are they whining that Israel still rules the West Bank?
You make no sense

Haven't you figured out they've given up? They now know that the Jews are only playing, there was never any intention to allow a Palestinian state to be created since the right-wing theocrats took over the government in Israel.