Why does Obama hate sick people???

[dblack]

Sorry, but in this country the government is us, we the people and I sure as hell trust we the people a lot more than an insurance company that is only concerned with a bottom line and not the welfare of we the people.

Government isn't "us". Not all of us, in any case. The best case scenario, in a representative democracy, compels government to act on the desires of the majority, but that will often be in conflict with the interests of the minority. This is why we have a constitutionally limited government, and not unlimited pure democracy.

But you raise a good point. Even as a staunch libertarian, I agree with you in trusting government to protect my rights more than the profit motive of insurance companies. Which is exactly why I don't want to be forced into doing business with them. Think about it.

 

[Harry Dresden]

So when Pubs finally end the most important step forward EVER for sick people, it's Obama's fault? Jeeebus you're brainwashed fools LOL. Want MORE transparency and competition? scream at your Pub reps and tell them that stuff is not just a stall tactic to try and STOP ACA...Pub dupes! Duh.

i always find it humorous when Frankie calls someone else Brainwashed......

 

[The T]

So when Pubs finally end the most important step forward EVER for sick people, it's Obama's fault? Jeeebus you're brainwashed fools LOL. Want MORE transparency and competition? scream at your Pub reps and tell them that stuff is not just a stall tactic to try and STOP ACA...Pub dupes! Duh.

i always find it humorous when Frankie calls someone else Brainwashed......

I quit reading his derp and admire those RED Suns he has...

 

[Harry Dresden]

What makes you believe that?

The mandate was a "pact" with HMOs. They get a whole lot of new customers and they can't kick people out.

That gets dismantled if the mandate gets booted.

Which was the whole point of the mandate in the first place.

If it's unconstitutional, it's unconstitutional. And, although the appellant didn't fight THAT, Obama will.

Good for him, eh?

That's what you get for compromising with Republicans.

Obama should have went with Single Payer.

No way that would have been ruled unconstitutional.

In any case..ruling it unconstitutional might have some unintented consequences. Like opening up the flood gates to nonsense issues like having states issue licenses for driving and the like.

what he should have done for RIGHT NOW....is deal with those who lost their jobs and Ins...and need some for themselves or family....those of us who have Ins he did not need to worry about right now.....take care of the ones who lost theirs and need it.....it would have been a lot easier with the Economy the way it is to deal with 20 to 30 million people instead of 300 million plus.....my opinion....

 

[Seawytch]

Sorry, but in this country the government is us, we the people and I sure as hell trust we the people a lot more than an insurance company that is only concerned with a bottom line and not the welfare of we the people.

Government isn't "us". Not all of us, in any case. The best case scenario, in a representative democracy, compels government to act on the desires of the majority, but that will often be in conflict with the interests of the minority. This is why we have a constitutionally limited government, and not unlimited pure democracy.

But you raise a good point. Even as a staunch libertarian, I agree with you in trusting government to protect my rights more than the profit motive of insurance companies. Which is exactly why I don't want to be forced into doing business with them. Think about it.

I have, which is why I support single payer...or AT LEAST a Public Option.

 

[francoHFW]

If it's unconstitutional, it's unconstitutional. And, although the appellant didn't fight THAT, Obama will.

Good for him, eh?

That's what you get for compromising with Republicans.

Obama should have went with Single Payer.

No way that would have been ruled unconstitutional.

In any case..ruling it unconstitutional might have some unintented consequences. Like opening up the flood gates to nonsense issues like having states issue licenses for driving and the like.

what he should have done for RIGHT NOW....is deal with those who lost their jobs and Ins...and need some for themselves or family....those of us who have Ins he did not need to worry about right now.....take care of the ones who lost theirs and need it.....it would have been a lot easier with the Economy the way it is to deal with 20 to 30 million people instead of 300 million plus.....my opinion....

Of course it does just that- If you make less the 140% of the poverty line, you get improved Medicaid, without having to lose all your assets and go on welfare. It's the whole point, dupe. And cheaper for the country, cheaper than ER care, bankruptcies, people on welfare, etc etc. Research is good, since you'll never hear it from the PPM...

 

[salem.hills]

So when Pubs finally end the most important step forward EVER for sick people, it's Obama's fault? Jeeebus you're brainwashed fools LOL. Want MORE transparency and competition? scream at your Pub reps and tell them that stuff is not just a stall tactic to try and STOP ACA...Pub dupes! Duh.

Most important? why dismantle the whole system then? Death care is a tyrants tool to CONTROL I normally bypass people so simple and brainwashed but I hope I helped you out here to see straight. smh I can't actually believe anyone doesn't understand that

Doesn't dismantle SHYTTE,dupe- just makes insurance GUARANTEED and affordable for 80%, adds the rest, the uninsured, to improved Medicaid- gets people off welfare, and is cheaper than ERcare- and cost controls, low cost clinics. Will add more later. Again- better than Romneycare, which lowered costs 15% and has lowest rises in the country. 2%

Min wage should be 10.50= 1968's equiv. Unless you want NZ's $13 or Oz's 15...

Affordable all premiums have gone up and with every government program going 4 to 30 times projected costs, SS being the 30 tines cost. How can you actually not understand its unsustainable dream, and when Medicare is full of 50 billion in corruption. Why not fix that and offer HC to the 10-15 million without coverage? No let a disgustly ill and wasteful government take control of our lives? That's just crazy isn't it? Turning over 1/6 of the economy to the worst business people on earth- the government. Its unconstitutional but what a sick joke if it passes the court.

 

[francoHFW]

So when Pubs finally end the most important step forward EVER for sick people, it's Obama's fault? Jeeebus you're brainwashed fools LOL. Want MORE transparency and competition? scream at your Pub reps and tell them that stuff is not just a stall tactic to try and STOP ACA...Pub dupes! Duh.

i always find it humorous when Frankie calls someone else Brainwashed......

I quit reading his derp and admire those RED Suns he has...

Hilarious, dupes. Any examples? LOL

I'm very proud of my rep, thanks- it's just a circle jerk for loudmouth ugly 'Merican chumps and mealy mouth both-sides- are-the -same chumps. Paul Krugman and I are sick of you dummies, stupidest voters in the modern world (seesig last line), thanks to the BS pub propaganda machine and cowardly corporate news...

 

[francoHFW]

Most important? why dismantle the whole system then? Death care is a tyrants tool to CONTROL I normally bypass people so simple and brainwashed but I hope I helped you out here to see straight. smh I can't actually believe anyone doesn't understand that

Doesn't dismantle SHYTTE,dupe- just makes insurance GUARANTEED and affordable for 80%, adds the rest, the uninsured, to improved Medicaid- gets people off welfare, and is cheaper than ERcare- and cost controls, low cost clinics. Will add more later. Again- better than Romneycare, which lowered costs 15% and has lowest rises in the country. 2%

Min wage should be 10.50= 1968's equiv. Unless you want NZ's $13 or Oz's 15...

Affordable all premiums have gone up and with every government program going 4 to 30 times projected costs, SS being the 30 tines cost. How can you actually not understand its unsustainable dream, and when Medicare is full of 50 billion in corruption. Why not fix that and offer HC to the 10-15 million without coverage? No let a disgustly ill and wasteful government take control of our lives? That's just crazy isn't it? Turning over 1/6 of the economy to the worst business people on earth- the government. Its unconstitutional but what a sick joke if it passes the court.

I'd say that's because health care business people are the greediest business people going. Costs doubled just under Boosh and continue at that rate now. Under ACA preparation, more Medicare fraud has been found than ever, and more to come. Send your suggestions to you bought off Pub Representatives.

Most of your "facts" are PUBCRAPPE. Link to SS 30x deal? ACA DOES give Medicaid to those poor workers and uninsured, WITHOUT having to go on welfare.

 

[Harry Dresden]

That's what you get for compromising with Republicans.

Obama should have went with Single Payer.

No way that would have been ruled unconstitutional.

In any case..ruling it unconstitutional might have some unintented consequences. Like opening up the flood gates to nonsense issues like having states issue licenses for driving and the like.

what he should have done for RIGHT NOW....is deal with those who lost their jobs and Ins...and need some for themselves or family....those of us who have Ins he did not need to worry about right now.....take care of the ones who lost theirs and need it.....it would have been a lot easier with the Economy the way it is to deal with 20 to 30 million people instead of 300 million plus.....my opinion....

Of course it does just that- If you make less the 140% of the poverty line, you get improved Medicaid, without having to lose all your assets and go on welfare. It's the whole point, dupe. And cheaper for the country, cheaper than ER care, bankruptcies, people on welfare, etc etc. Research is good, since you'll never hear it from the PPM...

hey Frankie.....i can show you a couple dozen people right now who lost their jobs and have no ins. and cant get squat without paying a premium they cant afford.....and none of them qualify for Medicaid.....or Medi-Cal......fucking dupe.....we are talking about young people Frankie not someone as old as Dracula like you are.....

 

[dblack]

Sorry, but in this country the government is us, we the people and I sure as hell trust we the people a lot more than an insurance company that is only concerned with a bottom line and not the welfare of we the people.

Government isn't "us". Not all of us, in any case. The best case scenario, in a representative democracy, compels government to act on the desires of the majority, but that will often be in conflict with the interests of the minority. This is why we have a constitutionally limited government, and not unlimited pure democracy.

But you raise a good point. Even as a staunch libertarian, I agree with you in trusting government to protect my rights more than the profit motive of insurance companies. Which is exactly why I don't want to be forced into doing business with them. Think about it.

I have, which is why I support single payer...or AT LEAST a Public Option.

Oh, well my apologies then. I was under the impression you were defending PPACA and the mandate.

 

[Seawytch]

Government isn't "us". Not all of us, in any case. The best case scenario, in a representative democracy, compels government to act on the desires of the majority, but that will often be in conflict with the interests of the minority. This is why we have a constitutionally limited government, and not unlimited pure democracy.

But you raise a good point. Even as a staunch libertarian, I agree with you in trusting government to protect my rights more than the profit motive of insurance companies. Which is exactly why I don't want to be forced into doing business with them. Think about it.

I have, which is why I support single payer...or AT LEAST a Public Option.

Oh, well my apologies then. I was under the impression you were defending PPACA and the mandate.

Defending, no. Knowing the realities of taking small steps and getting what you can get when you can get it, yes. The law ain't all bad and there are ways to make it work even without the mandate. One way would be to incentivize insurance buying. Make it cheaper the younger you get it like Medicare.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I have, which is why I support single payer...or AT LEAST a Public Option.

Oh, well my apologies then. I was under the impression you were defending PPACA and the mandate.

Defending, no. Knowing the realities of taking small steps and getting what you can get when you can get it, yes. The law ain't all bad and there are ways to make it work even without the mandate. One way would be to incentivize insurance buying. Make it cheaper the younger you get it like Medicare.

Hey, not a bad idea, wait did I agree with you on something? I might need more time to see where the trick is...hmmmmm

 

[dblack]

I have, which is why I support single payer...or AT LEAST a Public Option.

Oh, well my apologies then. I was under the impression you were defending PPACA and the mandate.

Defending, no. Knowing the realities of taking small steps and getting what you can get when you can get it, yes. The law ain't all bad and there are ways to make it work even without the mandate. One way would be to incentivize insurance buying. Make it cheaper the younger you get it like Medicare.

Hmm... well, that sure sounds like a defense of the bill to me. A step in the wrong direction is a bad idea regardless of whether it's small or large. Insurance is the problem, not the solution. And pushing us into greater dependency on insurance - whether through a mandate or not, whether the insurance is run by government or not - is a bad idea. It will only exacerbate the core problem (health care inflation) and dig us deeper into this hole.

 

[Seawytch]

Oh, well my apologies then. I was under the impression you were defending PPACA and the mandate.

Defending, no. Knowing the realities of taking small steps and getting what you can get when you can get it, yes. The law ain't all bad and there are ways to make it work even without the mandate. One way would be to incentivize insurance buying. Make it cheaper the younger you get it like Medicare.

Hmm... well, that sure sounds like a defense of the bill to me. A step in the wrong direction is a bad idea regardless of whether it's small or large. Insurance is the problem, not the solution. And pushing us into greater dependency on insurance - whether through a mandate or not, whether the insurance is run by government or not - is a bad idea. It will only exacerbate the core problem (health care inflation) and dig us deeper into this hole.

Insurance is the current reality. Until we stop treating health care as a commodity, this is what we are stuck with. We have to make it available and affordable to the most Americans possible under the current system and the ACA does that...until we can replace it with single payer.

 

[dblack]

Insurance is the current reality. Until we stop treating health care as a commodity, this is what we are stuck with.

Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. In fact, it's proven to be a spectacularly bad way. Millions of Americans are finally starting to figure that out and moving toward having as little insurance as possible. These 'refuseniks' are why the industry has finally acquiesced to "reform". They want to use it to prop up their failing paradigm, and squeeze a few more years of profit from their sinking ship, by forcing the outliers into their pens. We're only "stuck" with it if we let them get away with it.

 

[signelect]

I am almost 70 and have never use Medicare on only got part B last month. I am reconsiled to the idea that when, not if, i get a major illness as older people are pron to do they will tell me that I am too old to waste the money on me. Congress and the president of course will have their own plan. Maybe the only thing for me to do it committ some crime and go to jail where they will have to take care of me. Or a second option would be to give up my citizenship and live here illegally and they they will have to take care of me.

 

[Seawytch]

Insurance is the current reality. Until we stop treating health care as a commodity, this is what we are stuck with.

Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. In fact, it's proven to be a spectacularly bad way. Millions of Americans are finally starting to figure that out and moving toward having as little insurance as possible. These 'refuseniks' are why the industry has finally acquiesced to "reform". They want to use it to prop up their failing paradigm, and squeeze a few more years of profit from their sinking ship, by forcing the outliers into their pens. We're only "stuck" with it if we let them get away with it.

Yeah, that works until they get sick or end up in an emergency room. When that happens, we pay not them.

 

[dblack]

Insurance is the current reality. Until we stop treating health care as a commodity, this is what we are stuck with.

Insurance isn't the only way to pay for health care. In fact, it's proven to be a spectacularly bad way. Millions of Americans are finally starting to figure that out and moving toward having as little insurance as possible. These 'refuseniks' are why the industry has finally acquiesced to "reform". They want to use it to prop up their failing paradigm, and squeeze a few more years of profit from their sinking ship, by forcing the outliers into their pens. We're only "stuck" with it if we let them get away with it.

Yeah, that works until they get sick or end up in an emergency room. When that happens, we pay not them.

I'm not talking about insuring ourselves against unforeseen emergencies or catastrophic illness. That makes sense, but it's not the problem. The problem is our delusion that we can use insurance as a way to finance regular health care expenses. That's not what insurance is for. Trying to use it in that way isn't cost effective. It inserts unnecessary overhead in every health care transaction and distorts consumer demand.

When patients are spending their own money for most of their health care expenses, and relying on insurance only for extreme circumstances, they have strong incentive to spend their money wisely - to get the most bang for their buck and use only the health care services they actually need. But with the plans that we've been promoting for the last fifty years (low-deductible, high-premium), that incentive is turned upside down. Once the deductible is met, health care consumers have every incentive to spend as much as they can get away with, demanding the best quality, the most perks and the most expensive treatment at every turn. That can't NOT result in inflation.

 

[Seawytch]

I agree that we should have no Health Insurance. I disagree with your alternative. My ideal alternative is single payer. I believe it is the only way we will be able to compete in a global marketplace.