Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?

[g5000]

If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?

And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?

In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it for 8 years – till December 2011.

In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country for 18 years – till May 2000.

And so on.

"She was begging to be raped, your Honor!"

 

[Rigby5]

There were a lot of Ukrainian prison guards at camps that held Russian prisoners, which no doubt pleased Ukrainians. The Russians tortured Ukrainians for years, and now it was their turn.

Wrong.
Russian never harmed the Ukraine.
The starvation of the 1930s was the whole USSR and not imposed by Russia on the Ukraine alone.
That is propaganda.
And the main point of the death camps in the Ukraine was to murder Jews, not just Russians.

 

[Rigby5]

Really?

How did Ukrainians, the tiny smattering that had survived Stalin's genocide, get from Ukraine to German occupied territory?

There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.
All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.
All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.
You are not very up on history.

 

[Uncensored2008]

And isn't it true that Baghdad Bob was right that the US was lying about Iraqi WMD, the US was committing war crimes, the invasion was illegal, the US murdered half a million innocent Iraqi civilians, the US illegally tortured POWs in Bagrham, etc.?
Are you trying to imply that Baghdad Bob was wrong in some way?

The US has always been on the wrong side, deliberately starting wars to invade or install dictators, like with Chaig Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, Pinochet in Chile, Batista in Cuba, the Shah in Iran, etc.

Uh no.

Like you, he told utterly absurd lies that were contradicted by events in real time.

 

[Rigby5]

Thanks, I almost jumped on that one. A country that was devastated by Stalin and had 95% of their native population murdered might have been sympathetic to Hitler - IF they ever heard of him. But they were slaves under the Soviet masters and weren't going to do anything in regards to the war.

That is ridiculous.
The starvation of the 1930s was all of the USSR, not just the Ukraine, and the death toll was less than 3%.
And yes, there were Ukraine units in the German Wehrmacht.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There was no genocide of the Ukraine by Stalin.

I see you had your usual breakfast of paint chips in vodka this morning.

All of the USSR had the same starvation due to agricultural failures.

All of the Ukraine was German occupied territory during part of WWII.

BUT Stalin had murdered the Ukrainians so the people there were ethnic Russians.

You are not very up on history.

 

[Rigby5]

According to the definition of Nazi Laws' that you promote, every country in the world including the U.S. & Russia have Nazi Laws.

Nazi-ism is a whole lot more insidious than that.

Don't see your point?
The danger of fascism comes from inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else.
The US has it but only from abusive individuals, not from corrupt legislation.
The Ukraine and Nazi Germany had it written into its legislation, so is much worse.

Russia has the least fascist legislation of any country.
That is because they are more multi cultural than any other country.
There are still abuses, but not in their legislation.

 

[Rigby5]

Dude, I read it. You are claiming that ethnic minorities being taught the Ukrainian language IN UKRAINE makes Ukraine a Nazi state!

This is the most idiotic reasoning possible.

Wrong.
The Ukraine is about half ethnic Russian, and all are required to learn Ukrainian, and learning Russian discriminated against.
The Ukraine is one of the most fascist countries and cultures in the world.
They go back to the abuses of the "Taras Bulba" era.
They are an awful culture.

 

[Dissident]

Unlike you, I don't make up definitions on a whim:

Nazism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is obvious that the author of this article of Wikipedia sees no difference between a Nazi state and an undemocratic state since he writes about “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, etc.

The word Nazism is derived from German Nationalsozialismus and this phenomenon deals with ethnic origin of citizens – some ethnic groups are preferred and some others are discriminated.

But there can be undemocratic states which aren’t Nazi states.

For example, South Korea, one of the key allies of the USA during the Cold War – it even fought on the side of the USA in the Vietnam War - was an undemocratic state at that time and its rulers had “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but South Korea wasn’t a Nazi state.
Rulers of its neighbor, the Communist North Korea, still have “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but North Korea isn’t a Nazi state too.

 

[Rigby5]

Every year after the invasion, the pseuco-conservatives on this board insisted there were WMDs in Iraq. And whenever WMDs showed up elsewhere on the planet, they claimed the offender had gotten them from Iraq, with ZERO evidence.

Then along comes Trump, who has always insisted there were NOT any WMDs in Iraq, and who had insisted Bush should have been impeached for lying (how ironic), and suddenly all the pseudocons turned on a dime and not a word was said about WMDs in Iraq ever again.

Yes, I agree with you, but you are saying Baghdad Bob was right and the Pentagon was the liars.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?

And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?

In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it for 8 years – till December 2011.

In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country for 18 years – till May 2000.

And so on.

The thing is, Ukraine isn't an independent state, it is an independent, sovereign nation. It has armed itself out of fear of the Russians doing exactly what they are doing now. They don't make territorial claims, it IS their territory. Pro-Russian seperatists claim a section of territory of their own. The fact is, it isn't.


The Iraq war was wrong, the Israeli war against Lebanon was wrong. This Russian war against Ukraine is wrong.

 

[Confederate Soldier]

It is obvious that the author of this article of Wikipedia sees no difference between a Nazi state and an undemocratic state since he writes about “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, etc.

The word Nazism is derived from German Nationalsozialismus and this phenomenon deals with ethnic origin of citizens – some ethnic groups are preferred and some others are discriminated.

But there can be undemocratic states which aren’t Nazi states.

For example, South Korea, one of the key allies of the USA during the Cold War – it even fought on the side of the USA in the Vietnam War - was an undemocratic state at that time and its rulers had “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but South Korea wasn’t a Nazi state.
Rulers of its neighbor, the Communist North Korea, still have “disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system”, but North Korea isn’t a Nazi state too.

What planet are you from?



NAZI means Nationalist Socialist, a kind of socialism where industry is nationalized, and fanatic Nationalism is the norm. It's Socialism with racial and national pride are front and center. That's not Ukraine.

 

[Rigby5]

If Pennsylvania were an independent state and made territorial claims to a region which Germany considers its own; and if at the same time Pennsylvania intensively armed itself, constantly declared its plans to join a military alliance etc., couldn’t Germany consider Pennsylvania as a threat?

And if Germany could consider Pennsylvania as a threat, wouldn’t Germany have the right to start a military operation against Pennsylvania?

In 2003 the U.S. decided that Iraq was a threat to the U.S. and therefore the U.S. invaded Iraq and occupied it for 8 years – till December 2011.

In 1982 Israel decided that Lebanon was a threat to Israel and therefore Israel invaded Lebanon and occupied the Southern part of this country for 18 years – till May 2000.

And so on.

The US had no legal basis for claiming Iraq was a threat, and it was all deliberate lies, that makes the US criminal.
Same with Israel.
The Israeli invasion of Lebanon was not only completely criminal, but included attempted mass genocide at several Palestinian refugee camps.

If there really were a real UN with international laws, the US and Israel would no longer exist, due to their war crimes.

 

[Rigby5]

They either volunteered, or were former POW's themselves that "switched sides".


When the Germans invaded Ukraine, a lot of Ukrainians saw them as liberators from the Soviets. They were happy to help get back at the Russians. SS Galicia division, (14th SS "Freiwillgen" Division) was made up of Ukrainian volunteers. They were tasked in anti-partisan affairs, and some members volunteered to be camp guards. In Poland, a number of Ukrainians were close by enough to be either pressed into service, or were given the option to "volunteer" for service. Some Ukrainian POW's chose this option. There were always a number of radicals, and these men volunteered to be sent wherever they were needed.


The fact is, the majority of death camp guards were German. There were some other nationalities who volunteered, a number of them Ukrainian, but the majority were German. In POW camps, (different from death camps), the numbers of foreign volunteers were much higher. Any POW camp that held Russian prisoners was bound to have a set of Ukrainian guards in place.

Holocaust testimony disagrees with you as to how many Ukrainians death camp guards there were.

{...
Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazi SS men 10-to-one at the Sobibor death camp, but they fell strictly under the Germans' authority, a Jewish survivor testified Wednesday at the trial of John Demjanjuk.
...}

'Ukrainians guards took part in extermination'

At Demjanjuk trial, Holocaust survivor says Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazis 10-to-1 at Sobibor camp.

www.jpost.com

Every survivor who testifies says that about 80% of the death camp guards were Ukrainian volunteers.
And that the Ukrainians were the most brutal.

 

[Rigby5]

So like America where whites are inferior citizens that can be gunned down and arrested without charge for protesting?

No, individual abuses are not the point, but that the laws in the Ukraine specifically discriminate on a wholesale basis.

 

[Rigby5]

Another Republican White-winger in support of Putin the war criminal.

Putin is guilty of nothing.
The US bribed Kyiv since 2014 into committing a series of crimes against Russia that are acts of war that can not be ignored.
The war criminal is the US, for deliberately giving weapons to a state in violation of international law.

 

[22lcidw]

So all you have is the Ukrainian language is taught to all students, comrade? And that makes them Nazis? BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Be careful. There are a lot of Republicans who believe only English should be taught in our schools, too. They demand English be made the official language of the US. Are they Nazis, comrade?

Our history is one language used for all. Nothing wrong with neighborhoods of one ethnic or cultural backgrounds using another language or dialect in places of their business or in casual conversations and the such. Only idiots make more reasons for eventual destruction of a nation. People that came here up to the mid 1960's know this. Many who have come her since than know this. But more and more have made a second language become more mainstream.

 

[Richard-H]

Don't see your point?
The danger of fascism comes from inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else.
The US has it but only from abusive individuals, not from corrupt legislation.
The Ukraine and Nazi Germany had it written into its legislation, so is much worse.

Russia has the least fascist legislation of any country.
That is because they are more multi cultural than any other country.
There are still abuses, but not in their legislation.

Wow, you really should research some terms before you use them.

Historically, there have been thousands of cultures where there has been "inequality of the wealthy elite over everyone else".

Yet, 'Fascism' was only conceived of by Mussolini in the 1920s.

The U.S. had laws which clearly discriminated against non-white people for many years, yet the U.S. was not fascist or Nazi.

Please stop making up your own definitions.

 

[Rigby5]

Dude, I read it. You are claiming that ethnic minorities being taught the Ukrainian language IN UKRAINE makes Ukraine a Nazi state!

This is the most idiotic reasoning possible.

Wrong.
They are not just being taught Ukrainian language, but forced to and prevented from using their native Russian language.
Half of the Ukraine should not even be part of the Ukraine, but should be and was part of Russia until 1955, when Khrushchev the Ukrainian, illegally gave them to the Ukraine.

 

[Oddball]

Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?​

Because Zelenski is providing them with a first-rate money laundry.

10% for the Big Guy!