Why Can't The So-Called Pro-Life Crowd Be Honest?

[Vanquish]

The Catholic Church is a perfect example of how pro-lifers care for the baby and the mother after the birth. They counsel and protest to get girls to stop...then they give them support - housing, money, clothing, support...everything needed to support the decision.

And that's just one example. Again, I'm not pro-life for religious reasons, but you can't argue that pro-lifers dont support the baby after the birth. That's just not borne out by fact.

 

[Anguille]

Oh, that is right, I forgot you live in the sophisticated part of the world. Forgive me.

By the way, you call it peripheral in Australia. I gotta tell ya, it is pretty much the same here. It just doesn't seem like it because you post on sites like this one and we... well, we are just not normal around here.

Immie

it isn't peripheral here at all. the first thing the repubs did when they took over the house was ttry to pass a bill allowing hospitals to let women die rather then give them a life-saving abortion.'

and, frankly, i can't speak for you, obviously, but i can tell you that i'd never vote for anyone who was anti-choice under any set of circumstances.

that isn't very peripheral.

Most people in this country really don't give two shakes about it. Most would rather the issue went away in its entirety. They are sick of discussing it.

I'm sure it is no different in Europe or Australia. Everyone has an opinion on it, but most are not willing to fight over it.

Immie

I've never been to NZ or Australia but I've lived in Europe. They do not have the problems with extremists that we have here and it's pretty much a non issue during elections.

 

[Grace]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

Why should anyone even pay attention to YOU? Miss emotional meltdowns??

You are definately no one to talk.

Responding in a way you dont like is considered a meltdown? Gosh, the things I learn here.
You know the old saying...eyeball, plank, splinter.

 

[Grace]

The argument that unless you adopt children you have no right to argue against abortion is not valid. It's dishonest, and implies there's a connection between abortion and unwanted children.

Yeah? and the argument that unless you carry full term according to your rules is...what? Honest?
"Implies theres a connection between abortion and unwanted children". Well..just DUH. Ya think?

 

[Imma B Me]

My take on this is I can respect most any POV as long as it is consistent. However, when looking at the pro-life position I just don't see that consistency.

If someone is against abortion because they consider it murder and they believe they have a morale responsibility to protect life, than that should continue on after the birth. I haven't noticed the unified proposals from pro-lifers demonstrating the morale responsibility for that life after it has been "saved".

I don't know the abortion statistics but I doubt the majority of abortions are a result of women just not wanting to endure child birth. More than likely, abortions are largely attributed to some form of apprehension about what to do after the birth. So for someone to label themselves pro-life and have little to no concept for how to continue the moral responsibility of this life after birth, seems very inconsistent.

Well, I haven't been looking to prove anything, that's why I stated "I haven't NOTICED". Whenever I hear or read pro life positions being espoused, I can't recall them addressing what to do after birth aside from sometimes a casual mention of adoption. That is not a well thought out plan for the moral responsibility of a new born child. It is not as if adoption is some easy fix it for providing for "saved" babies.

Ahhh, I see. So in fact, you're not even in here telling us what evil, hypocritical bastards pro-lifers are based on what you've observed or think you've observed. You're in here making that claim while admitting that you haven't even bothered to find out one way or another. You're just basing your accusations on the fact that ::gasp!:: when they make a statement about abortion, they stick to the subject. Does that about cover it?

Here's a thought, Sparky. When you want to comment on how "well thought-out" someone's plan is, why don't you put a little effort into finding out what that plan actually IS before shooting off your mouth? If you can't be bothered, then I can't be bothered to listen to you.



Well, silly me, if I felt the need to expound on how "most abortions aren't due to this reason", it would actually bear some relation to whether or not people had actually SAID it was, or at the very least, to my belief that they'd said it. I had not realized that you were in the habit of lecturing on points no one had made or had any intention of making. Clearly, in crediting you with the basic conversational skills necessary to attempt to relate your remarks to what's going on around you, I overestimated you. My apologies for placing higher expectations upon you than you are capable of fulfilling. I'll try not to make the same mistake twice.



Well, you sure as shit didn't present a position based on the facts, because you just got done telling me how you didn't have any facts to back up what you said, and that at least some of what you said wasn't even based on any actual conversation taking place. Since you're not basing your remarks on facts, or statistics, or anything anyone else has said, that doesn't leave a whole hell of a lot else for you to be gassing away about EXCEPT your own personal "feelings" about what pro-lifers "probably" do.

You keep saying you "haven't noticed any proposals", and yet when you're asked, you refuse to tell me what sort of proposals you have in mind. If you have no freaking clue what sort of proof you're looking for, how in the hell do you expect to find it?

I'll be waiting on your proof that pro-lifers take no "moral responsibility" for children after birth, which is frankly a laughably hypocritical position of faux outrage, considering that the opposite side of the argument doesn't even want to take moral responsibility for the existence of the children AT ALL.

Now here, you really lost me and I will not provide proof for something I didn't state. You have no idea if I am pro life, pro choice or whatever, so you can't honestly declare my position "hypocritical". If I am pro life or pro choice but have a proposal for the continued moral responsibility of non-aborted babies, which I haven't noticed from the pro life proposals I have heard and read, that's not "hypocritical". Also I don't see how if someone is not pro life they don't, "even want to take moral responsibility for the existence of the children AT ALL." They just don't believe pregnant women should be legally mandated to give birth.

My main point was the consistency of the pro life position or the lack thereof, as I have noticed it presented. Not if it is right or wrong.

"If someone is against abortion because they consider it murder and they believe they have a morale responsibility to protect life, than that should continue on after the birth. I haven't noticed the unified proposals from pro-lifers demonstrating the morale responsibility for that life after it has been "saved"."

Your words, Mensa Boy. While I realize that there's absolutely no foundation whatsoever for your criticisms about pro-lifers, given that by your own admission you've made no effort to gather any facts and, in fact, have no idea what kind of proof you're looking for that you claim you haven't seen, that doesn't change the fact that you DID, in that paragraph, say that pro-lifers do not take moral responsibility for children after birth.

As to my point that abortionistas take no moral responsibility for children AT ALL, do you really need a picture drawn for you to explain that vigorously supporting the killing of unwanted children before they're even born constitutes denying any moral responsibility for them and their creation? Hello? Is anyone in there?

I literally LOLd when I read your reply. I am not trying to be rude but you seem to want to make my docile post some attack on self-proclaimed pro lifers when that's not what it is. Also the point you seem to be overlooking even after you quoted my "mensa boy" post is "unified proposals". Consistent proposals, widely held among pro lifers that account for the continued moral responsibility of those babies even after birth until they can take care of themselves.

I don't know what facts you want to support what I am saying about what I have noticed. To be a little more specific, I have seen Tony Perkins from Focus on the Family on a few different shows on tv, also various other self-described pro lifers at different times and haven't noticed them discuss a unified proposal for after the birth. However, I am always open to learning something new so if you know of any "unified proposals from pro-lifers demonstrating the morale responsibility for that life after it has been "saved"., please share them with me.

The whole notion of this possibly not being mentioned because "they stick to the subject" is really making my point. Pro lifers I have heard and read come across as if the continued moral responsibility after birth is off the subject or a different discussion from abortion when that is central to the subject of abortion. See, you do understand what I am saying and you even demonstrated it with that comment.

 

[Dr Grump]

I literally LOLd when I read your reply. I am not trying to be rude but you seem to want to make my docile post some attack on self-proclaimed pro lifers when that's not what it is. Also the point you seem to be overlooking even after you quoted my "mensa boy" post is "unified proposals". Consistent proposals, widely held among pro lifers that account for the continued moral responsibility of those babies even after birth until they can take care of themselves.

I don't know what facts you want to support what I am saying about what I have noticed. To be a little more specific, I have seen Tony Perkins from Focus on the Family on a few different shows on tv, also various other self-described pro lifers at different times and haven't noticed them discuss a unified proposal for after the birth. However, I am always open to learning something new so if you know of any "unified proposals from pro-lifers demonstrating the morale responsibility for that life after it has been "saved"., please share them with me.

The whole notion of this possibly not being mentioned because "they stick to the subject" is really making my point. Pro lifers I have heard and read come across as if the continued moral responsibility after birth is off the subject or a different discussion from abortion when that is central to the subject of abortion. See, you do understand what I am saying and you even demonstrated it with that comment.

You'll have to forgive the Cesspit. She is one of our more arrogant neocon whackjobs. She makes "hello" sound like an insult. Believes she is the be-all an end-all of all political/moral debates and the rest of us are here for her amusement

The fact she comes across as a dumb, ignorant arse most of the time doesn't seem to bother her one iota.

Shrug

 

[Cecilie1200]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

You're absolutely correct: no one SHOULD pay any attention to you . . . unless they happen to be getting $200 an hour or more to listen to your endless kvetching.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

Why should anyone even pay attention to YOU? Miss emotional meltdowns??

You are definately no one to talk.

Responding in a way you dont like is considered a meltdown? Gosh, the things I learn here.
You know the old saying...eyeball, plank, splinter.

No, spending multiple pages going on about "You're all calling me a baby killer! I was raped! If you don't think abortion should be legal, then you're attacking me! It's all about ME, ME, ME!" is a meltdown. Assuming that a thread discussing abortion in general is ACTUALLY about your own specific little life story is a meltdown. I'd cut and paste some of your endless, interminable maunderings, except that would make me just like you.

Hopefully, one thing you learned here is not to mentally violate total strangers by forcing your life story on them.

 

[Imma B Me]

The Catholic Church is a perfect example of how pro-lifers care for the baby and the mother after the birth. They counsel and protest to get girls to stop...then they give them support - housing, money, clothing, support...everything needed to support the decision.

And that's just one example. Again, I'm not pro-life for religious reasons, but you can't argue that pro-lifers dont support the baby after the birth. That's just not borne out by fact.

Now this I would like to find out more about. If this is indeed what the Catholic Church promotes, I can at least respect the consistency of that position. If there was some unified proposal along these lines that self-proclaimed pro lifers widely espoused, I could respect that.

I would definitely like to see how far this goes and how diverse this proposal is. Does it extend only to catholic females or does the church offer this for ALL females, with no discrimination?

Also, to anyone that keeps saying pro choice means people don't care what happens to babies period, think about something. We are ALL legally required to be pro choice since the law says a women has the right to have an abortion if she chooses. I don't personally know anyone who encourages women to get pregnant so they can have abortions or that likes abortions. The morale responsibility for us ALL is to offer as many alternatives to unwanted pregnancies as possible including prevention.

Like it or not a woman has been ABLE to choose what she wants to do with her body and ANY part of it, long before Roe v Wade made it legal. The law can't stop abortion no more than it can stop drug use, suicide or self mutilation. To ignore that FACT and continue to argue about criminalizing abortions instead of coming together for better alternatives to abortion, is very morale irresponsible.

 

[Grace]

Why should anyone even pay attention to YOU? Miss emotional meltdowns??

You are definately no one to talk.

Responding in a way you dont like is considered a meltdown? Gosh, the things I learn here.
You know the old saying...eyeball, plank, splinter.

No, spending multiple pages going on about "You're all calling me a baby killer! I was raped! If you don't think abortion should be legal, then you're attacking me! It's all about ME, ME, ME!" is a meltdown. Assuming that a thread discussing abortion in general is ACTUALLY about your own specific little life story is a meltdown. I'd cut and paste some of your endless, interminable maunderings, except that would make me just like you.

Hopefully, one thing you learned here is not to mentally violate total strangers by forcing your life story on them.

Youre funny.

Now put the mirror down very slowly so you dont hurt yourself.

 

[skookerasbil]

Because if they were they would admit that they are in favor of government control over American citizens private decisions. THEY are the real enemies of liberty and freedom.

Because unless you are the woman, her doctor or her God you need to stay the fuck out of her business.

.

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD..................I feel like I'm back in the 70's with this feminist bulldog ranting here.............


Dollar to a stale donut..................

Yoplait fAiL..........."Hey.........those chicken wings look a bit hairy!!! I'll have some of those!!!!!!!!!"

 

[skookerasbil]

"Stay the fcukk out of my business!!!!!!!!"








Bulldogs rock!!!!

 

[Shadow]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

Why should anyone even pay attention to YOU? Miss emotional meltdowns??

You are definately no one to talk.

Responding in a way you dont like is considered a meltdown? Gosh, the things I learn here.
You know the old saying...eyeball, plank, splinter.

No...the huge tantrums you throw when things don't go your way are considered meltdowns. You know...the ones you use to try and shut down discussions you don't like ( ie free speech..abortion etc). Those. I'm sure we will be seeing plenty more of them in the future from you too

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Catholic Church is a perfect example of how pro-lifers care for the baby and the mother after the birth. They counsel and protest to get girls to stop...then they give them support - housing, money, clothing, support...everything needed to support the decision.

And that's just one example. Again, I'm not pro-life for religious reasons, but you can't argue that pro-lifers dont support the baby after the birth. That's just not borne out by fact.

Now this I would like to find out more about. If this is indeed what the Catholic Church promotes, I can at least respect the consistency of that position. If there was some unified proposal along these lines that self-proclaimed pro lifers widely espoused, I could respect that.

I would definitely like to see how far this goes and how diverse this proposal is. Does it extend only to catholic females or does the church offer this for ALL females, with no discrimination?

Also, to anyone that keeps saying pro choice means people don't care what happens to babies period, think about something. We are ALL legally required to be pro choice since the law says a women has the right to have an abortion if she chooses. I don't personally know anyone who encourages women to get pregnant so they can have abortions or that likes abortions. The morale responsibility for us ALL is to offer as many alternatives to unwanted pregnancies as possible including prevention.

Like it or not a woman has been ABLE to choose what she wants to do with her body and ANY part of it, long before Roe v Wade made it legal. The law can't stop abortion no more than it can stop drug use, suicide or self mutilation. To ignore that FACT and continue to argue about criminalizing abortions instead of coming together for better alternatives to abortion, is very morale irresponsible.

The Catholic Church is the number one private provider of charitable services in any community you look at. The welfare system routinely refers its clients to the Catholic Church and its charities for services it cannot provide. It takes very little research to find this out.

 

[Dr Grump]

"Stay the fcukk out of my business!!!!!!!!"








Bulldogs rock!!!!

I didn't know The Kook and The Cesspit were an item. Hey, Kook, does Cess know you posted her pic on the internet? You might want to ask her first...

 

[AllieBaba]

The Catholic Church is a perfect example of how pro-lifers care for the baby and the mother after the birth. They counsel and protest to get girls to stop...then they give them support - housing, money, clothing, support...everything needed to support the decision.

And that's just one example. Again, I'm not pro-life for religious reasons, but you can't argue that pro-lifers dont support the baby after the birth. That's just not borne out by fact.

It doesn't matter. The one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. the pro-abortionists use this logical fallacy to change the subject when they realize they have no salient points.

 

[Grace]

Why should anyone even pay attention to YOU? Miss emotional meltdowns??

You are definately no one to talk.

Responding in a way you dont like is considered a meltdown? Gosh, the things I learn here.
You know the old saying...eyeball, plank, splinter.

No...the huge tantrums you throw when things don't go your way are considered meltdowns. You know...the ones you use to try and shut down discussions you don't like ( ie free speech..abortion etc). Those. I'm sure we will be seeing plenty more of them in the future from you too

As the posters here seems to favor....link please of where I tried to shut down any discussion I dont like, or it didnt happen and youre a big fat liar, neener neener nanny booboo.

 

[Grace]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

You're absolutely correct: no one SHOULD pay any attention to you . . . unless they happen to be getting $200 an hour or more to listen to your endless kvetching.

Wanna count how many responses are in this thread from you vs mine?
What were you saying again about my endless kvetching? Hello?

 

[AllieBaba]

it isn't peripheral here at all. the first thing the repubs did when they took over the house was ttry to pass a bill allowing hospitals to let women die rather then give them a life-saving abortion.'

and, frankly, i can't speak for you, obviously, but i can tell you that i'd never vote for anyone who was anti-choice under any set of circumstances.

that isn't very peripheral.

Most people in this country really don't give two shakes about it. Most would rather the issue went away in its entirety. They are sick of discussing it.

I'm sure it is no different in Europe or Australia. Everyone has an opinion on it, but most are not willing to fight over it.

Immie

I've never been to NZ or Australia but I've lived in Europe. They do not have the problems with extremists that we have here and it's pretty much a non issue during elections.

More abortions than births.

And they do have problems with extremists...just not anti-abortion extremists. Tho now that they've been taken over by Islam I imagine that will change.

Or maybe not. Islam has never concerned itself with women and children.

 

[AllieBaba]

Imma B Me, dont pay 'tention to the shrieking harpy.

You're absolutely correct: no one SHOULD pay any attention to you . . . unless they happen to be getting $200 an hour or more to listen to your endless kvetching.

Wanna count how many responses are in this thread from you vs mine?
What were you saying again about my endless kvetching? Hello?

Twit.