Why can't liberals find a way to create wealth without taking from successfull?

[occupied]

Of course they wield enormous political power. They have lots of money. Money that generates a huge portion of the federal tax bill. Now you explain to me how the massive tax contributions do not "contribute to the country they worked so hard to own.". Tell me, do you think a parasitic whiner like yourself "contributes" to this country more than, say, Tom Brady or lebron? I mean,they are super rich, and pay a huge amount in taxes. Apparently not enough for you to think they are contributing...... So, do you think the millions they pay out in taxes every year, in addition to the wealth they create for other people, is outweighed by your own lofty "contributions,which seem to be little more than efforts to raise awareness at your upset over some people having more than you. Answer, or stuff, change your tampon, and get a goddamn job.

I wish I could have a discussion on holding them economically and politically accountable that matches the scale of their control without being called a jobless loser but it seems the only counter that people such as yourself can muster. Unaccountable, unchecked political power is a threat to freedom, anyone should be able to grasp that concept, yet so many are ecstatic when they once again show that they are all but untouchable.

Maybe if you squared the blame properly, people wouldn't ride your ass for being an envious puke. Rich people didn't steal or power grab anything that big govt. didn't give them. It is the govt. that goes unchecked in making laws, regulations, subsidies, etc...that foster monopolies (or oligarchies if you prefer) that got us where we are in this corporatism.

The rich played the game as it was laid out for them. You've got your blame wrong and that's why those who can see whats going on dont blame the rich, they blame the govt.

You want more govt. to hold themselves accountable or tax the rich. if you can not see this log jammed in your eye, then, you'll have to keep getting rode for being an envious moron. Just being honest.

Just being diversionary is more like it. They own the government, what do you expect? They write their own rules and get to blame their failures on the government that they control, pretty neat racket. The last real political will to hold them accountable died with FDR.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

"They" do not "own" the government. "They" work with the govt. for the benefit of themselves and the govt. It's a cozy relationship. You're seeing this backwards.

 

[occupied]

The one percent is a small enough group that act in a similar enough fashion that certain "generalizations" are correct.

By all means, please make some generalizations about the 1 percent that justifies taking more of their money.

And for reference, the top one percent income is $380,000 a year and up.

I would like to know what evil rat bastard thing a business owner who makes $38,000 a year is doing that makes it okay to steal his money from him.

Taxation is only theft in the absence of representation and boy do they have plenty of that.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I think odd-dude framed the issue quite well. We should all go back to the 18th Century. Life was so easy then, no Central Government, slaves could cut our lawns (did lawns exist in Colonial America?) and each state could make laws without those damn bill of rights intruding. Women could not vote, doctors and lawyers were not licensed, no one inspected the food or made sure the neighbors didn't piss and shit in the source of our drinking waster. Roads were controlled by each landowner, some improved, most not, but the fees to travel were always collected. A real utopia.

I'm considering registering as a member of the Reactionary Party, joining with odd-dude and Eric Cantor to make America what it used to be.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I think odd-dude framed the issue quite well. We should all go back to the 18th Century. Life was so easy then, no Central Government, slaves could cut our lawns (did lawns exist in Colonial America?) and each state could make laws without those damn bill of rights intruding. Women could not vote, doctors and lawyers were not licensed, no one inspected the food or made sure the neighbors didn't piss and shit in the source of our drinking waster. Roads were controlled by each landowner, some improved, most not, but the fees to travel were always collected. A real utopia.

I'm considering registering as a member of the Reactionary Party, joining with odd-dude and Eric Cantor to make America what it used to be.

Nice stretch. Did you pull any muscles? Also, a few yoga masters are impressed.

 

[g5000]

They write their own rules and get to blame their failures on the government that they control

I would agree with this as it applied to the financial services sector. One hundred percent.


So if a guy was coming into your house and stealing your stuff, would taxing another guy across town who lives in a bigger house than you stop that?

No. It would not.

If a guy was caught by the police leaving your house with your stuff in his hands, and all he had to do was pay a small fine, and he got to keep your stuff (!), would taxing another guy across town who lives in a bigger house than you stop that?


No. It would not.


If a guy came into your house and stole your stuff, would throwing rocks at rich people stop that?

No. It would not.



The problem is that the field has been tilted in the favor of a few. A few who are even less than one percent, but who control 20 percent of our GDP.

And even within that less than one percent, there is an even smaller percent who are actually committing wrongdoing. But they are fucking things up for everyone else on the planet.

They are permitted to do this by a complete lack of oversight, and even when they do something so un-fucking-believably egregious that even the Keystone Kops can't miss, they don't go to prison for it.

Which only encourages the crooks to become more and more evil and commit greater and greater crimes until they are actually fucking with the LIBOR rate! The LIBOR rate. The very DNA of our financial system. Just to make a few extra bucks.

And still, the bad guys just paid a fine.

 

[bripat9643]

I know fellas like you have some weird garden of Eden complex about the period before 1900 that can only come from never actually having studied that period. But even our friends at the Cato Institute admit there was widespread poverty.

Your own source doesn't support your claim. It estimates a povety rate of between 30%-50%.

I said often, not constant. I sourced the 90 percent figure in another topic here a few months ago, but am unable to find it right now.

Regardless, even 50% is intolerable.

In comparison to what? In the first place, the poverty rate is a totally arbitrary number. Bureaucrats are changning the definition of "poverty" all the time. The fact is that people in the USA were better off than people in any other country in the world.

The mitigation of political corruption, women's suffrage, public education reforms which resulted in a massive growth in the number of schools, the Seventeenth Amendment for the direct election of Senators instead of them being chosen by cronies, food and drug safety legislation.

ROFL! Where's the evidence that any of those things reduced the poverty rate? I would say most of them increased the poverty rate because they gave more power to numskulls like you. How can anyone argue that the FDA reduced poverty? If anything, it increases poverty by making drugs more expensive.

America has been the greatest country in the world since Day One. However, life was no bowl of cherries for an immgrant once they landed here. .

Life was better here than in the countries they left.

Just as there are liberal extremes who want to steal all the money they can from some monolithic fantasy they call "the rich" to solve all our probelms, there are also extreme conservative fantasies which are equally delusional..

You haven't named any so far.

I am constantly pointing them out on this forum. On a daily basis, practically. Like the "we have no poor" argument being made by some nutjobs for the past few weeks. And the Voter ID "solution" looking for a problem.

We don't have any poor if you compare Americans to the rest of the world. We certainly don't have any people who are starving. How is Voter ID "extreme" when over 60% of the public supports it?

 

[Oddball]

I think odd-dude framed the issue quite well. We should all go back to the 18th Century. Life was so easy then, no Central Government, slaves could cut our lawns (did lawns exist in Colonial America?) and each state could make laws without those damn bill of rights intruding. Women could not vote, doctors and lawyers were not licensed, no one inspected the food or made sure the neighbors didn't piss and shit in the source of our drinking waster. Roads were controlled by each landowner, some improved, most not, but the fees to travel were always collected. A real utopia.

I'm considering registering as a member of the Reactionary Party, joining with odd-dude and Eric Cantor to make America what it used to be.

That's a lovely straw man you've built there, Danny Vermin.

 

[Oddball]

"They" do not "own" the government. "They" work with the govt. for the benefit of themselves and the govt. It's a cozy relationship. You're seeing this backwards.

See: Protection racket.

 

[Oddball]

The one percent is a small enough group that act in a similar enough fashion that certain "generalizations" are correct. One that has always been correct is the golden rule, "He who has the gold makes the rules." We as Americans used to have a strong distaste for such monarchist attitudes, now it is the unofficial motto of American politics.

Also you are the only one here engaging in anything that resembles a tirade.

I've heard every word of your shameless bigotry and poorly veiled avarice.

"The 1%" is yet another completely bigoted meme, that objectifies people so small-minded bitter little wretches like you can rationalize your irrational hatred...Like I said, exchange "the 1%" with "Jews" and give us a report as to what you see in the mirror.

Are you saying that the 1% are a persecuted minority? ROFLMFAO (not really).

What I'm saying is that your naked bigotry and unvarnished hatred is laid bare for all to see, when the object of you irrational scorn is changed.

You really aren't that bright, either, are ya?

 

[occupied]

I've heard every word of your shameless bigotry and poorly veiled avarice.

"The 1%" is yet another completely bigoted meme, that objectifies people so small-minded bitter little wretches like you can rationalize your irrational hatred...Like I said, exchange "the 1%" with "Jews" and give us a report as to what you see in the mirror.

Are you saying that the 1% are a persecuted minority? ROFLMFAO (not really).

What I'm saying is that your naked bigotry and unvarnished hatred is laid bare for all to see, when the object of you irrational scorn is changed.

You really aren't that bright, either, are ya?

My scorn is quite rational as opposed to having none for the biggest players in our most recent ruinous crash, I blame the government only for not doing their job in letting things go so far that it may end up ruining the world.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

IO think we've reached the point of pointless. You're blinded by irrational envy. If you ditch the blinders, you might see that the latest crash is the product of govt., not banks. Banks playes the hand dealt. Government dealt the cards. This is not complicated. it really is not.

 

[occupied]

IO think we've reached the point of pointless. You're blinded by irrational envy. If you ditch the blinders, you might see that the latest crash is the product of govt., not banks. Banks playes the hand dealt. Government dealt the cards. This is not complicated. it really is not.

It's not complicated at all when you pile all the blame on the puppets seemingly in charge. Just because there is not a law against a particular kind of risky destructive behavior does not mean it is right, banks knew they were risking consumer funds on worthless crap but they did it anyway, after all, it's not like they will ever be held responsible. They pushed and lobbied to get certain rules changed that would allow them to risk the money of everyday people on a casino bet, the act of getting the laws changed to favor too big to fail places a lion's share of the blame directly on the big banks and their massive attack on the regulatory structure.

 

[Pho_King]

IO think we've reached the point of pointless. You're blinded by irrational envy. If you ditch the blinders, you might see that the latest crash is the product of govt., not banks. Banks playes the hand dealt. Government dealt the cards. This is not complicated. it really is not.

She could at least be upset with the Feds for not giving her more freebies, rather than with the wealthy who have no interest in feeding her sloth.

 

[Pho_King]

Say how the super rich do not wield enormous political power and are instead a powerless persecuted minority or STFU also.

Of course they wield enormous political power. They have lots of money. Money that generates a huge portion of the federal tax bill. Now you explain to me how the massive tax contributions do not "contribute to the country they worked so hard to own.". Tell me, do you think a parasitic whiner like yourself "contributes" to this country more than, say, Tom Brady or lebron? I mean,they are super rich, and pay a huge amount in taxes. Apparently not enough for you to think they are contributing...... So, do you think the millions they pay out in taxes every year, in addition to the wealth they create for other people, is outweighed by your own lofty "contributions,which seem to be little more than efforts to raise awareness at your upset over some people having more than you. Answer, or stuff, change your tampon, and get a goddamn job.

I wish I could have a discussion on holding them economically and politically accountable that matches the scale of their control without being called a jobless loser but it seems the only counter that people such as yourself can muster. Unaccountable, unchecked political power is a threat to freedom, anyone should be able to grasp that concept, yet so many are ecstatic when they once again show that they are all but untouchable.

You also wield unaccountable unchecked political power, just not as much. And, nice dodge on explaining your belief that the wealthy do not "contribute to the country they have worked so hard to own". Actually, it wasn't a dodge. You simply avoided any explanation altogether. I am left to assume that you concede that if a man that pays a few million in taxes every year has done nothing to contribute to this country, then you have contributed even les than nothing, and will now change your tampon, get a job, and stuff.

 

[Bloodline]

I didn't ask you that....See if you can get past your completely irrational hatred of people who have more than you do, to read for 4th-grade comprehension.

What do the wealthy get -other than "more money"- from all this hoarding you accuse them of?....What is their outcome?....What is their end game?

I already answered your question, and the answer is power. You seem to see only a group of essentially honest private citizens, I see the true political power in this country who own one-and-a-half political parties that serve their needs at the expense of the rest of us, they have power over us and no one to hold them accountable. If we cannot even tax them into contributing to the country they worked so hard to own and control we have lost, welcome to feudalism American style.

Wow. Now the OWS gimme gimme crowd does not think that the tax contributions of the rich "contribute to the country they worked so hard to own". What a bunch of lazy, covetous assholes.

"Contributions" my ass!

Mitt Romney is a good example of the rich and their "contributions!"

A virtual "buffet" of tax loopholes, fancy accounting tricks, and fortunes sheltered in foreign accounts so on paper it looks like they SHOULD be contributing a lot but in reality they don't.

The poor and working poor in America simply don't have the luxury of hiding what little they own from the government.

This fallacy that the rich in America pay more the most in taxes is a myth. It works that way in theory but not on paper.

Mitt Romney is a perfect example!

 

[occupied]

Of course they wield enormous political power. They have lots of money. Money that generates a huge portion of the federal tax bill. Now you explain to me how the massive tax contributions do not "contribute to the country they worked so hard to own.". Tell me, do you think a parasitic whiner like yourself "contributes" to this country more than, say, Tom Brady or lebron? I mean,they are super rich, and pay a huge amount in taxes. Apparently not enough for you to think they are contributing...... So, do you think the millions they pay out in taxes every year, in addition to the wealth they create for other people, is outweighed by your own lofty "contributions,which seem to be little more than efforts to raise awareness at your upset over some people having more than you. Answer, or stuff, change your tampon, and get a goddamn job.

I wish I could have a discussion on holding them economically and politically accountable that matches the scale of their control without being called a jobless loser but it seems the only counter that people such as yourself can muster. Unaccountable, unchecked political power is a threat to freedom, anyone should be able to grasp that concept, yet so many are ecstatic when they once again show that they are all but untouchable.

You also wield unaccountable unchecked political power, just not as much. And, nice dodge on explaining your belief that the wealthy do not "contribute to the country they have worked so hard to own". Actually, it wasn't a dodge. You simply avoided any explanation altogether. I am left to assume that you concede that if a man that pays a few million in taxes every year has done nothing to contribute to this country, then you have contributed even les than nothing, and will now change your tampon, get a job, and stuff.

Not a dodge, if a guy buys an apartment block and jacks up the rent while refusing to fix any of the broken pipes or electrical shorts we would call him a scumbag, just a difference in scale, they bought a country and are letting it go to blight while whining like spoiled little bitches that it is too expensive to fix a damned thing.

 

[Pho_King]

I already answered your question, and the answer is power. You seem to see only a group of essentially honest private citizens, I see the true political power in this country who own one-and-a-half political parties that serve their needs at the expense of the rest of us, they have power over us and no one to hold them accountable. If we cannot even tax them into contributing to the country they worked so hard to own and control we have lost, welcome to feudalism American style.

Wow. Now the OWS gimme gimme crowd does not think that the tax contributions of the rich "contribute to the country they worked so hard to own". What a bunch of lazy, covetous assholes.

"Contributions" my ass!

Mitt Romney is a good example of the rich and their "contributions!"

A virtual "buffet" of tax loopholes, fancy accounting tricks, and fortunes sheltered in foreign accounts so on paper it looks like they SHOULD be contributing a lot but in reality they don't.

The poor and working poor in America simply don't have the luxury of hiding what little they own from the government.

This fallacy that the rich in America pay more the most in taxes is a myth. It works that way in theory but not on paper.

Mitt Romney is a perfect example![/

Why don't you provide a simple breakdown of from what economic brackets our taxes are coming from so we can test this liberal theory that the rich contribute nothing.

 

[Pho_King]

I wish I could have a discussion on holding them economically and politically accountable that matches the scale of their control without being called a jobless loser but it seems the only counter that people such as yourself can muster. Unaccountable, unchecked political power is a threat to freedom, anyone should be able to grasp that concept, yet so many are ecstatic when they once again show that they are all but untouchable.

You also wield unaccountable unchecked political power, just not as much. And, nice dodge on explaining your belief that the wealthy do not "contribute to the country they have worked so hard to own". Actually, it wasn't a dodge. You simply avoided any explanation altogether. I am left to assume that you concede that if a man that pays a few million in taxes every year has done nothing to contribute to this country, then you have contributed even les than nothing, and will now change your tampon, get a job, and stuff.

Not a dodge, if a guy buys an apartment block and jacks up the rent while refusing to fix any of the broken pipes or electrical shorts we would call him a scumbag, just a difference in scale, they bought a country and are letting it go to blight while whining like spoiled little bitches that it is too expensive to fix a damned thing.

What percent of federal tax revenue is generated by the 1%? The ones that, according to you, contribute nothing. And how do the non-existent contributions from this class compare to your own? From a tax perspective, are we better off with you or with some rich dude?

 

[occupied]

You also wield unaccountable unchecked political power, just not as much. And, nice dodge on explaining your belief that the wealthy do not "contribute to the country they have worked so hard to own". Actually, it wasn't a dodge. You simply avoided any explanation altogether. I am left to assume that you concede that if a man that pays a few million in taxes every year has done nothing to contribute to this country, then you have contributed even les than nothing, and will now change your tampon, get a job, and stuff.

Not a dodge, if a guy buys an apartment block and jacks up the rent while refusing to fix any of the broken pipes or electrical shorts we would call him a scumbag, just a difference in scale, they bought a country and are letting it go to blight while whining like spoiled little bitches that it is too expensive to fix a damned thing.

What percent of federal tax revenue is generated by the 1%? The ones that, according to you, contribute nothing. And how do the non-existent contributions from this class compare to your own? From a tax perspective, are we better off with you or with some rich dude?

I do alright, the economy would be much better served by several thousand more of me and my modest success than by a billionaire stashing away another chunk in the Caymans. I never said they contribute nothing, I have been making the case that simple wealth accumulation in the hands of the super rich sucks money from the economy and that taxation is the only way to insure that at least some of it makes it back into circulation, being a billionaire means you accumulate wealth but it also means you occasionally destroy large chunks of wealth with your loses, if they had not stacked the deck to make sure that others cover those loses it would not be so bad. Show me a billionaire who was not a billionaire anymore after this mess. As long as we are expected to cover their asses when the shit hits the fan they should pay big for that kind of wealth insurance.