Why Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT

[candycorn]

I couldn’t envision a HS Baseball team of today beating Major League teams of the 40s and early 50s with Williams, DiMaggio and Musial but a good HS Basketball team of today would beat NBA teams of that era

Athleticism doesn't always mean victory but yeah...you make a good point.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

You are in the vast minority in that thinking.

Out of what group of people?

who only considers the 3 you mentioned? Probably almost none

 

[Couchpotato]

Out of what group of people?

who only considers the 3 you mentioned? Probably almost none

Very few people think the conversation about the NBA GOAT is outside those three if it’s a serious conversation. And typically its just MJ vs Lebron

Bottom line Bill and his Celtics would be lucky to win 30 games in today’s NBA. I can guarantee you they don’t win 1 championship let alone 11.

Now by contrast take Lebron MJ or Kobe and put them back in the 60s and 70s and they run roughshod over the league. They would be men playing against boys.

 

[rightwinger]

Very few people think the conversation about the NBA GOAT is outside those three if it’s a serious conversation. And typically its just MJ vs Lebron

Bottom line Bill and his Celtics would be lucky to win 30 games in today’s NBA. I can guarantee you they don’t win 1 championship let alone 11.

Now by contrast take Lebron MJ or Kobe and put them back in the 60s and 70s and they run roughshod over the league. They would be men playing against boys.

I don’t think the Celtics of the 50s and early 60s win a single game against todays NBA teams

 

[Couchpotato]

I don’t think the Celtics of the 50s and early 60s win a single game against todays NBA teams

I was being generous.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I couldn’t envision a HS Baseball team of today beating Major League teams of the 40s and early 50s with Williams, DiMaggio and Musial but a good HS Basketball team of today would beat NBA teams of that era

That's quite foolish to compare sports so wildly different such as baseball and basketball.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I don’t think the Celtics of the 50s and early 60s win a single game against todays NBA teams

If you ripped the 50's 60's Celts out of their time and implanted them into today? You're correct.

However, that's just an uncompelling argument. The eras were different. If you wanted the 50's and 60's NBA, then you'd have to train like the 50's, 60's NBA, and take away all the knowledge that has been built since that time. Then it's fair.

It's like saying Roman warriors were horrible warriors compared to American soldiers with AK-47's... well, if you gave roman warriors AK-47's and trained them with it... it might not be so different then.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Very few people think the conversation about the NBA GOAT is outside those three if it’s a serious conversation. And typically its just MJ vs Lebron

Who are these people you're speaking of? People under the age of 40? The bubble you belong to? Who?

Bottom line Bill and his Celtics would be lucky to win 30 games in today’s NBA. I can guarantee you they don’t win 1 championship let alone 11.

No shit. But that proves nothing, given the era difference.

Now by contrast take Lebron MJ or Kobe and put them back in the 60s and 70s and they run roughshod over the league. They would be men playing against boys.

Again, the era difference. If you took away Lebron, MJ, or Kobe's training, AAU play, learning of the game at a young age, etc... and then put them back.. they'd fit right in, and probably get dominated by Wilt.

 

[rightwinger]

If you ripped the 50's 60's Celts out of their time and implanted them into today? You're correct.

However, that's just an uncompelling argument. The eras were different. If you wanted the 50's and 60's NBA, then you'd have to train like the 50's, 60's NBA, and take away all the knowledge that has been built since that time. Then it's fair.

It's like saying Roman warriors were horrible warriors compared to American soldiers with AK-47's... well, if you gave roman warriors AK-47's and trained them with it... it might not be so different then.

My point stands

It was a different game and could not compete against today’s game. If you try to turn those teams into today’s teams, you are no longer compare the eras

Could players of the 50s and 60s compete in the NBA after 50 years?
Some could be competitive. But as a whole, they would fail.

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

My point stands

It was a different game and could not compete against today’s game. If you try to turn those teams into today’s teams, you are no longer compare the eras

No it doesn't, it skips the whole debate.. again, it's like saying roman soldiers were bitches because they couldn't defeat a modern soldier with an AK-47. Why would you be so obtuse?

 

[rightwinger]

That's quite foolish to compare sports so wildly different such as baseball and basketball.

I am making the point that Basketball suffers more than other Sports of the 40s and 50s

Baseball attracted the best athletes and had the marquee reputation. Basketball of that era was a traveling sideshow and was not remotely as popular. The quality of play reflects that

 

[rightwinger]

No it doesn't, it skips the whole debate.. again, it's like saying roman soldiers were bitches because they couldn't defeat a modern soldier with an AK-47. Why would you be so obtuse?

They had the same Basketball and the same rim set at 10 feet

The quality of the players was just not as good

 

[Couchpotato]

Who are these people you're speaking of? People under the age of 40? The bubble you belong to? Who?


No shit. But that proves nothing, given the era difference.

Again, the era difference. If you took away Lebron, MJ, or Kobe's training, AAU play, learning of the game at a young age, etc... and then put them back.. they'd fit right in, and probably get dominated by Wilt.

Who? It’s quite literally everyone. A quick google search makes that abundantly clear.

And tell me again about all that AAU basketball MJ played. LOL.

Is your argument really that Russell isn’t as good as MJ Kobe and Lebron but that doesn’t matter because he was born earlier?

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

I am making the point that Basketball suffers more than other Sports of the 40s and 50s

Baseball attracted the best athletes and had the marquee reputation. Basketball of that era was a traveling sideshow and was not remotely as popular. The quality of play reflects that

Again, which 6'9" athletes were stuck up on baseball? Basketball certainly evolved, as did all sports. The best basketball players in the world played basketball.

Are you going to say that today's NBA players are fraudulant becuase the NFL took away athletes like Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, Terell Owens, etc? No, you can only measure a sport by who played it at the time and who was the best at the time.

You're grasping at straws to discredit those who you didn't see play for your own ego-stroke. I didn't see them play at their time either, but I don't have some weird, age-ist slander campaign against them like you do. You're like the grunge rocker saying that the beatles weren't sh*t because you listened to them and their sound wasn't crisp. It's the exact same thing.

 

[rightwinger]

Again, which 6'9" athletes were stuck up on baseball? Basketball certainly evolved, as did all sports. The best basketball players in the world played basketball.

Are you going to say that today's NBA players are fraudulant becuase the NFL took away athletes like Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, Terell Owens, etc? No, you can only measure a sport by who played it at the time and who was the best at the time.

You're grasping at straws to discredit those who you didn't see play for your own ego-stroke. I didn't see them play at their time either, but I don't have some weird, age-ist slander campaign against them like you do. You're like the grunge rocker saying that the beatles weren't sh*t because you listened to them and their sound wasn't crisp. It's the exact same thing.

You are missing the point

The NBA of the 40s and 50s was not a major sport
Major sports are not based in Syracuse, Rochester or Ft Wayne

Basketball today is a global phenomena in Europe, Japan, China and most the rest of the world.

Winning Championships in the 40s and 50s in an inferior league does not compare to winning today

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

You are missing the point

The NBA of the 40s and 50s was not a major sport
Major sports are not based in Syracuse, Rochester or Ft Wayne

Basketball today is a global phenomena in Europe, Japan, China and most the rest of the world.

Winning Championships in the 40s and 50s in an inferior league does not compare to winning today

So then you discount quite a bit of overall sports history? I understand the issue with exposure, but the truth of beating the best in front of you who know and practice the game is real. It was a smaller pool of occupants, but those who were best shine through. I'm sure you could theorize some person from another country could have done better, that's fine.. I'm dealing with reality.

Again, if you stuck MJ or Lebron back into 1962, and took away all of their time priviledges like back to the future such as their cross-training, early youth training, and intellectual strategies that were developed over time.. you'd have similar clunky, athletic oafs who existed in the 1960's.

You don't seem capable of comprehending the era-discrimination that you're violently giving off. You're avoiding my examples.

 

[Couchpotato]

So then you discount quite a bit of overall sports history? I understand the issue with exposure, but the truth of beating the best in front of you who know and practice the game is real. It was a smaller pool of occupants, but those who were best shine through. I'm sure you could theorize some person from another country could have done better, that's fine.. I'm dealing with reality.

Again, if you stuck MJ or Lebron back into 1962, and took away all of their time priviledges like back to the future such as their cross-training, early youth training, and intellectual strategies that were developed over time.. you'd have similar clunky, athletic oafs who existed in the 1960's.

You don't seem capable of comprehending the era-discrimination that you're violently giving off. You're avoiding my examples.

So if MJ and Kobe weren’t as good as they were they wouldn’t be better than Russel? That’s the argument?

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

So if MJ and Kobe weren’t as good as they were they wouldn’t be better than Russel? That’s the argument?

... I have no idea what you just said.

Are you incapable of not understanding that Bill Russell did not play AAU ball, didn not have modern training, strategy, and supplements?

 

[Couchpotato]

... I have no idea what you just said.

Are you incapable of not understanding that Bill Russell did not play AAU ball, didn not have modern training, strategy, and supplements?

Yes I agree he didn’t. That may well be why he’s an inferior player to MJ Lebron and Kobe. ( though MJ didn’t play AAU ball either). But we aren’t talking about the best basketball player to play the game if only he had had the right training and experience. Hell that might have been me. If only I had trained correctly, been 4-5 inches taller and more athletic I could have been better than Russell. Am I the NBA GOAT?

 

[The_Lyrical_Miracle]

Yes I agree he didn’t. That may well be why he’s an inferior player to MJ Lebron and Kobe. ( though MJ didn’t play AAU ball either). But we aren’t talking about the best basketball player to play the game if only he had had the right training and experience. Hell that might have been me. If only I had trained correctly, been 4-5 inches taller and more athletic I could have been better than Russell. Am I the NBA GOAT?

I'm interested in the best talent, you're interested in the best manifestation.

You think that a modern soldier with an AK-47 who pulls a trigger is a greater warrior than that of a roman legion who only has a sword. You're dumb, I'm not.