Why are soldiers automatically considered heroes?

You still don't get it, so let me try to spell it out for you. Get off this argument about who is or is not a hero.It's bullshit.[...]
Rather than quarrel about who is or isn't a hero I believe the intent of this discussion is to properly define what heroism is and is not. At this stage in the argument it occurs to me that a component missing from the definition is the reason for such heated disagreement and I believe that component is an emotional connection to the word.

When Pearl Harbor was bombed I was too young to comprehend the nature of war but I do have some fragmented recollection of the effect it had on the atmosphere of my own environment. That effect was fearful excitement and dark anticipation.

My father and uncle left and my mother, my aunt and my grandmother cried a lot. Men from all the families around us left. As time went on the fear became more pronounced and I recall the evening ritual of listening to Gabriel Heatter's War News on the big wooden radio in our parlor. I don't think I intelligently understood what he talked about but I was in tune with the emotions his words evoked in the adults who listened intently. There was fear and apprehension. And in the early stages of the war the news was almost always bad.

The war brought about many changes in everyone's daily lives. There was rationing of food and gasoline (for those who had cars). Ladies could not get stockings, any kind of metal things were hard to come by and there were daily scrap drives. Kids like my brother and me were given buckets at school with which we went around to stores and knocked on doors to collect metal and rubber which was picked up next day by men in trucks.

There were blackouts and searchlights in the night sky during the frequent air-raid drills. My aunt took a job working nights at the Brooklyn Navy Yard where she installed cots in troop compartments of warships. We were given booklets at school and every day the teachers collected dimes and issued "defense stamps" to be pasted in them. When the books were filled they were exchanged for $25 "War Bonds" (now U.S. Savings Bonds).

Every home that had family serving overseas had a little flag in their front window with a blue star for every member serving and a gold star for every member killed or missing. The number of gold stars increased as time went on and I remember the fear people had of the Western Union lady who brought the black-bordered telegrams. They hated to see her coming.

Every minute of every day held some level of conscious awareness that there were powerful armies which were capable of invading and occupying our country. We missed our fathers, uncles, brothers and cousins every day but much moreso on days like Thanksgiving and Christmas. Those were the worst days. Lots of sadness and crying. The most compelling awareness was that the only thing protecting us from the Nazis and the Japs were our soldiers and sailors who were being killed every day and every night to keep us safe at home.

I could say much more about what I'm able to recall of the War years but the point I'm trying to make is that we all were touched by it in very real, tangible and meaningful ways. It affected all of our lives in some way, every day. The fighting was always in our thoughts and we all experienced apprehension.

All of that and much more comprised a powerful emotional component that imparted a clear and unequivocal meaning to the word hero. Our warriors were heroes who protected us from very real and very menacing enemies who had planes, ships and vast, well-trained armies.

That was war. And there was no question about what heroes are, and why.
 
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Politicians (both parties), are the ones who hide behind the military by calling them heroes. The soldiers don't act in this way. If somebody think they do, they obviously don't know many people who've served before.

But there are obviously other ways to be a hero than just the military. Volunteer for something you care about-you'll be amazed at how rewarding it is. It's much more rewarding than normal work.
 
It's pathetic how in our nation which fought for her Independence and bled the battlefields of many wars crimson, we cannot set aside ONE FUCKING DAY, JUST ONE, to honor our fallen without some leftist douchebag bitching about it. I'm so damn tired of you Anti-American, Anti-military liberals.. No wonder you worship DingleBarry.. all of you think like he does.
 
It's pathetic how in our nation which fought for her Independence and bled the battlefields of many wars crimson, we cannot set aside ONE FUCKING DAY, JUST ONE, to honor our fallen without some leftist douchebag bitching about it. I'm so damn tired of you Anti-American, Anti-military liberals.. No wonder you worship DingleBarry.. all of you think like he does.

Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
 
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It's pathetic how in our nation which fought for her Independence and bled the battlefields of many wars crimson, we cannot set aside ONE FUCKING DAY, JUST ONE, to honor our fallen without some leftist douchebag bitching about it. I'm so damn tired of you Anti-American, Anti-military liberals.. No wonder you worship DingleBarry.. all of you think like he does.

Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
Note where I said ALL LIBERALS... the jerkwad OP is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.. The one who HATES Memorial Day and thinks 9-11 was no big deal so taking that fucking chip on your shoulder and shove it straight up your ass. ANYONE regardless of party affiliation who thinks like that is an ASSHOLE and anti-American IMO.. Don't like it?? TOUGH SHIT.. Don't read my posts.
 
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It's pathetic how in our nation which fought for her Independence and bled the battlefields of many wars crimson, we cannot set aside ONE FUCKING DAY, JUST ONE, to honor our fallen without some leftist douchebag bitching about it. I'm so damn tired of you Anti-American, Anti-military liberals.. No wonder you worship DingleBarry.. all of you think like he does.

Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
Note where I said ALL LIBERALS... the jerkwad OP is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.. The one who HATES Memorial Day and thinks 9-11 was no big deal so taking that fucking chip on your shoulder and shove it straight up your ass. ANYONE regardless of party affiliation who thinks like that is an ASSHOLE and anti-American IMO.. Don't like it?? TOUGH SHIT.. Don't read my posts.

She's right.
 
It's pathetic how in our nation which fought for her Independence and bled the battlefields of many wars crimson, we cannot set aside ONE FUCKING DAY, JUST ONE, to honor our fallen without some leftist douchebag bitching about it. I'm so damn tired of you Anti-American, Anti-military liberals.. No wonder you worship DingleBarry.. all of you think like he does.

Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
Note where I said ALL LIBERALS... the jerkwad OP is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.. The one who HATES Memorial Day and thinks 9-11 was no big deal so taking that fucking chip on your shoulder and shove it straight up your ass. ANYONE regardless of party affiliation who thinks like that is an ASSHOLE and anti-American IMO.. Don't like it?? TOUGH SHIT.. Don't read my posts.

I agree that anybody who thinks that memorial day is pointless, or that 9/11 wasn't a big deal is an asshole (which btw 9/11, obviously was an attack on a very liberal city).

With that said, you just had to throw in "leftist" douche-couldn't control yourself just to refer to him as an asshole, or douche, and leave it at that? You just had to label him-because of your own political agenda.
 
Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
Note where I said ALL LIBERALS... the jerkwad OP is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.. The one who HATES Memorial Day and thinks 9-11 was no big deal so taking that fucking chip on your shoulder and shove it straight up your ass. ANYONE regardless of party affiliation who thinks like that is an ASSHOLE and anti-American IMO.. Don't like it?? TOUGH SHIT.. Don't read my posts.

She's right.

I agree with what she says in this post-but she had to go out of her way as to calling referring to the OP as a "leftist", and a liberal several times. What she says in the 2nd post (that regardless of someone's polticial affiliation), is true. But then why does she go overboard in labeling in the post directly before that?
 
Here are all the people who've served that I know in my family:

grandfather (ww2, korea, vietnam, and for the record voted for Obama)-buried in Arlington, along with my grandmother
other grandfather (ww2)
uncle (vietnam)
father (vietnam)
cousin (Afghanistan)

So based on the fact that I have two close family members of mine buried there-I can't speak on behalf of all families with those buried in Arlington, but I can speak for myself-what Obama did, didn't offend me in the slightest.

Not to mention the countless family friends, and friends who've served before.

I know many people who've served in Afghanistan and Iraq-including a friend of mine who never came home, and left a broken family, including a new wife of just under a year. They're a Democratic family. I would love to see you post right here for everybody to see that they're "anti-American". I'd love to see you say it to their faces-but I bet you don't have the courage.

So answer the simple question: was he anti-American? Yes or no?

ANYBODY who disrespects the service of a soldier because of their personal ideas/beliefs is the real anti-American.
Note where I said ALL LIBERALS... the jerkwad OP is the kind of liberal I'm referring to.. The one who HATES Memorial Day and thinks 9-11 was no big deal so taking that fucking chip on your shoulder and shove it straight up your ass. ANYONE regardless of party affiliation who thinks like that is an ASSHOLE and anti-American IMO.. Don't like it?? TOUGH SHIT.. Don't read my posts.

I agree that anybody who thinks that memorial day is pointless, or that 9/11 wasn't a big deal is an asshole (which btw 9/11, obviously was an attack on a very liberal city).

With that said, you just had to throw in "leftist" douche-couldn't control yourself just to refer to him as an asshole, or douche, and leave it at that? You just had to label him-because of your own political agenda.

He is a leftist douchebag.. GO TO HIS PAGE. He came to mine and left remarks on my wall so I returned the favor. HE'S A PROUD PROGRESSIVE. Now run and crawl back under the rock you slimed beneath from.
 
You still don't get it, so let me try to spell it out for you. Get off this argument about who is or is not a hero.It's bullshit.[...]
Rather than quarrel about who is or isn't a hero I believe the intent of this discussion is to properly define what heroism is and is not. At this stage in the argument it occurs to me that a component missing from the definition is the reason for such heated disagreement and I believe that component is an emotional connection to the word.

When Pearl Harbor was bombed I was too young to comprehend the nature of war but I do have some fragmented recollection of the effect it had on the atmosphere of my own environment. That effect was fearful excitement and dark anticipation.

My father and uncle left and my mother, my aunt and my grandmother cried a lot. Men from all the families around us left. As time went on the fear became more pronounced and I recall the evening ritual of listening to Gabriel Heatter's War News on the big wooden radio in our parlor. I don't think I intelligently understood what he talked about but I was in tune with the emotions his words evoked in the adults who listened intently. There was fear and apprehension. And in the early stages of the war the news was almost always bad.

The war brought about many changes in everyone's daily lives. There was rationing of food and gasoline (for those who had cars). Ladies could not get stockings, any kind of metal things were hard to come by and there were daily scrap drives. Kids like my brother and me were given buckets at school with which we went around to stores and knocked on doors to collect metal and rubber which was picked up next day by men in trucks.

There were blackouts and searchlights in the night sky during the frequent air-raid drills. My aunt took a job working nights at the Brooklyn Navy Yard where she installed cots in troop compartments of warships. We were given booklets at school and every day the teachers collected dimes and issued "defense stamps" to be pasted in them. When the books were filled they were exchanged for $25 "War Bonds" (now U.S. Savings Bonds).

Every home that had family serving overseas had a little flag in their front window with a blue star for every member serving and a gold star for every member killed or missing. The number of gold stars increased as time went on and I remember the fear people had of the Western Union lady who brought the black-bordered telegrams. They hated to see her coming.

Every minute of every day held some level of conscious awareness that there were powerful armies which were capable of invading and occupying our country. We missed our fathers, uncles, brothers and cousins every day but much moreso on days like Thanksgiving and Christmas. Those were the worst days. Lots of sadness and crying. The most compelling awareness was that the only thing protecting us from the Nazis and the Japs were our soldiers and sailors who were being killed every day and every night to keep us safe at home.

I could say much more about what I'm able to recall of the War years but the point I'm trying to make is that we all were touched by it in very real, tangible and meaningful ways. It affected all of our lives in some way, every day. The fighting was always in our thoughts and we all experienced apprehension.

All of that and much more comprised a powerful emotional component that imparted a clear and unequivocal meaning to the word hero. Our warriors were heroes who protected us from very real and very menacing enemies who had planes, ships and vast, well-trained armies.

That was war. And there was no question about what heroes are, and why.
That was also a very different time, Mike; not necessarily better or worse, just simpler.A lot has happened since then, not least the change in our popular culture that has popularized the anti-hero, or at the least, the hero badly flawed. I suspect those who fully fit the romanticized "hero image" of earlier times have always been few to begin with; now, I don't know that many Americans would embrace the concept.

A culture that tries (sometimes to extremes) to be "totally egalitarian", a culture of "I'm as good as you", has little room for heroes, romanticized or otherwise. Our current age seems to me, to scorn greatness, and embrace mediocrity. The destructive fury of the sixties, has, I fear, not totally spent itself yet. An awful lot of Americans now don't want to "look up to" anything or anyone. It's the same with states men; we haven't any, because we tear them down before they get that far.FDR or JFK could not exist today; this society would tear them apart for their personal flaws. Now, a hero had better be god-like perfect, or be gone.

The problem of course, is that is not what heroes are. I'd define a hero (based on those whose actions I have personally seen), as mostly otherwise ordinary individuals who managed to do something very extraordinary in an extraordinary situation. That has probably always been so, but in a time you and I can recall, we used to overlook the ordinary human foibles (at least of the greatest of them), and make them larger than life. We don't do that now; hell, we even go back in history and try to debunk and demystify the heroes of the past. We call this "honesty" but is it? and If it is, is it a good thing? On the one hand, we as a society act as if we're desperate for inspiration; on the other, we cynically cut anything or anyone who might actually give us some off at the knees, the better to bring them down to our own level.

We've done the same with our country; national pride is now called "jingoism", and Patriotism (even the real kind) is often scorned. Some say this makes us a wiser and better, "more mature" nation. I'm not so sure.That isn't what made us great; what made us great, is that our national spirit was one of youthful exuberance, and if it was at times brash, loud, immodest and even rude, it was also daring and bold, and unafraid to act big, and dream big and do big. Now, we're more careful, less rambunctious, and while that may endear us to (or placate) the nations that both envy and hate what we have accomplished (and envy and hate they do), we've gone from a nation of can do, to one of afraid to try in just a few short decades. What's this new America? Is this attitude national maturity, or national senility?

So you may call me a jingo, or mean, or insensitive, but I look at where we're going, and I'm not happy, because I'll be damned if I want America to go quietly into that good night, like every great empire before us. A lot of Americans won't like this, but I think it's about time we remember who we are, and what we are, and act like it; I think it's about time, for us to walk tall and proud again, and carry a big stick again, and be willing to use it. I think it's time to stop apologizing for our country to every two-bit nation, and show an honest and unabashed pride in ourselves and our country again! I'm tired of the feminization of America. I'm tired of the whining of what Spiro Agnew called "an impudent corps of effete snobs who characterize themselves as intellectuals" (I didn't like the SOB, but he nailed that description perfectly) Yeah, I know what being like that costs....and I also know what sitting on our collective arse, while the world takes potshots at us with impunity costs too.
 
Explain building 7
Quite simple, MORON.

Two megaton buildings right next too it had fully loaded planes rammed into 'em....They collapsed, right next to it.

Not hard to figure out at all, MORON!

Yep, I told the conspiracy nuts what happened. I even made it easy to understand.

A 110 story building fell on it!

Simple, end of story.
 
Explain building 7
Quite simple, MORON.

Two megaton buildings right next too it had fully loaded planes rammed into 'em....They collapsed, right next to it.

Not hard to figure out at all, MORON!
1)The surrounding buildings, which were closer to the towers, took much more damage and did not collapse

This is Building 7
june2004wtc7page16cropp.jpg

june2004wtc7page15cropp.jpg


WTC7.net the hidden story of Building 7: Claims of Severe Damage to Building 7

Let me guess, it was the fire?

050307notaraginginferno.jpg

fig519s.jpg


:eusa_eh:

Here's a picture of a real fire and what really happens when fire weakens a building's structure

madrid02.gif


madrid_remains.jpg


Now... which burned longer and hotter?

Guess what doesn't happen.... a perfect implosion into its own footprint at near-freefall speed.
 
Our men and women who fought and died for America died not just for conservatives and republicans but for democrats, liberals, and those independents. Though some citizens do not like the military and speak out against them and some even burn the flag these soldiers died to protect that right, the right to say whatever they want,to voice whatever their opinion is. This is one thing that makes the USA special, the right to voice that opinion without worrying about being locked up or executed. So whether some people are against Memorial day or for it these men and women died so that you AMERICA can have that freedom.
 
The United States has not fought a Constitutionally approved war since WWII

Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc.

Were imperialistic wars fought to maintain colonialism in Asia and the middle east.

And had nothing to do with protecting our freedom and liberty in America.

They were just wars to prop up dictators and protect our access to other countries natural resources.

I am sure that our soldiers are doing the best they can under the circumstances and serving their country.

But saying that they are protecting our freedoms is the height of hubris and hypocrisy.
 
The United States has not fought a Constitutionally approved war since WWII

Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc.

Were imperialistic wars fought to maintain colonialism in Asia and the middle east.

And had nothing to do with protecting our freedom and liberty in America.

They were just wars to prop up dictators and protect our access to other countries natural resources.

I am sure that our soldiers are doing the best they can under the circumstances and serving their country.

But saying that they are protecting our freedoms is the height of hubris and hypocrisy.

I served honorably for 22 years, every single day of that time I was protecting your rights. Every push-up, every morning run, every exercise. It was all part of being ready for when we were needed. And yes, even the conflicts that the haters love to hate had their part in keeping America free. Deny it all you like, we know what we did.
 
SFC Ollie

I agree that we need a strong military.

And believe in national defense to protect our nation.

Which is exactly what our Constitution calls for.

But no conflict or war that we have been involved in since 1945 has done anything to protect our country our freedoms or our liberty.

As I have posted on the board before I am a Vietnam Vet

I have had several times where I had to fill out paperwork and check the box that said vet or provide my DD214

And the person who read my paperwork thanked me for my service.

Usually I just lightly nod my head and quickly change the subject.

Because I know what we did was basically immoral and had nothing to do with defending America or our freedoms.
 
:eusa_hand:

I didn't know soldiers were considered heroes unless they died in battle?

"How" or "Why" a man who was 18, 19, 20 years old is dead seems immaterial.
 
:eusa_hand:

I didn't know soldiers were considered heroes unless they died in battle?

"How" or "Why" a man who was 18, 19, 20 years old is dead seems immaterial.

I believe after a few years people realized how despicable the returning Vietnam vets were treated and want to make amends.

Now the pendulum has swung the other way.

And every soldier is viewed as a hero.
 
:eusa_hand:

I didn't know soldiers were considered heroes unless they died in battle?

"How" or "Why" a man who was 18, 19, 20 years old is dead seems immaterial.

I believe after a few years people realized how despicable the returning Vietnam vets were treated and want to make amends.

Now the pendulum has swung the other way.

And every soldier is viewed as a hero.

Why do you say that? Was there a poll?

I mean, what is your evidence (yeah, sorry if you already posted it, but I'm to fucking lazy to comb through the whole thread to find it).
 

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