why are emotional appeals to BP stock/pension holders being used?

[Big Fitz]

Boy you sure are trying to pull a fast one Crocks.

These are residential systems for single homes with tax rebates built into the costs.

Now if you expand it to industrial scale and compare it to other forms of electrical generation, it sucks mightilly. 1000 kilowatts in a megawatt, right? On an industrial scale it looks more like this when you compare energy production. And this is off highly suspect Wikipedia for being biased towards green energy.

Advanced Nuclear $67/MWh
Coal $74-88/MWh
Natural Gas $313-346/MWh
Geothermal $67/MWh
Hydro power $48-86/MWh
Wind power $60/MWh
Solar $116-312/MWh

See that? At BEST solar energy is slightly less than DOUBLE the cost of Nuclear, Coal and Geothermal. It is almost TRIPLE the cost for Hydro power at it's most efficient. And I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for the most efficient solar. The only surprising energy source is wind, but that obviously doesn't take into account many other bigger problems it has.

Pop goes your panacea. Because if we take your numbers, nuclear power still costs 6.7 cents per kwh. I think that's the better deal right there.

 

[blu]

Listen, you total fucking moron.... Most UK pension plans don't provide an option as to what shares plan members buy... you pay into the plan and the fund managers invest in the most profitable shares.

In the UK, there are thousands of ordinary retirees who rely on those payments to LIVE. They don't own massive houses, they don't drive expensive cars, they don't take expensive holidays.... they struggle to pay their bills and heat their homes in winter.

So fuck you... Don't you ever take the moral highground again, because I will remind you of your shitty attitude towards these innocent victims of American greed.... You should be ashamed of yourself - but you're probably too fucking stupid to know that.

those people could have not joined a pension plan, could have had other investments besides a pension, and could have lived frugally enough to not rely on the pension. they also could ahve diverisifed any investments they had control over. personal responsibility goes a long way. and the main greed here is from BP not america. people in america were fine with BP until they shit over hundreds of thousnda of peoples jobs and livelihood for decades to come

You are such a judgmental ass. "These people" did the right thing - the responsible thing (ohhh, maybe that's your issue with them... perhaps you think they should have relied on state handouts, like the good socialists do).... Every month, year in and year out, they put money into a pension plan to give themselves a better life once they retire. And ignorant fuckers like you think you know better than they do.

You arrogant fucking asshole. I hope one day it happens to you. I'd really enjoy you getting crapped on by something you had no control over - despite having done the right thing.

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

 

[blu]

As a millwright, there are procedures that I have to practice when working on any machinery. The least bad thing that can happen, should I not follow these procedures, is that I get fired. Should I be negligent, and someone, or several someones, get killed or hurt, I would face criminal charges. And be blackballed.

No one would be crying about those that were dependent on my paycheck. They would be crying for those who were hurt by my negligence. And justly so. So why should it be any differant for BP? Does the magnitude of the accident excuse the negligence that caused it?

More and more we are seeing evidence of criminal negligence on BP's part, and the damage estimates just keep expanding.

 

[Big Fitz]

Because you're gonna ask...

Relative cost of electricity generated by different sources - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Care4all]

The oil industry has been heavily subsidized by our government for nearly a century...

any guess to how much of our taxes has gone to them during this time?

 

[Care4all]

I don't want to imply it was wrong for the federal government to subsidize the oil and gas industry...especially when first hitting the road, they needed the subsidies to take off...

There is no reason why this should not be done for alternative fossil fuel energy to jump start it....since it was done already for this country's fossil fuels....is there?

 

[Old Rocks]

Fitz;

Advanced Nuclear $67/MWh
Coal $74-88/MWh
Natural Gas $313-346/MWh
Geothermal $67/MWh
Hydro power $48-86/MWh
Wind power $60/MWh
Solar $116-312/MWh

Now a dirty coal plant costs $2 to $3 a watt to build. Solar has for long been between $4 to $6 a watt. First Solar is manufacturing thin film solar right now for less than $1. The Solexent process will be far cheaper than that.

First Solar - News Release

First Solar Passes $1 Per Watt Industry Milestone
Company Cuts Manufacturing Cost to 98 Cents Per Watt in Fourth Quarter
TEMPE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 24, 2009-- First Solar, Inc. (Nasdaq: FSLR) today announced it reduced its manufacturing cost for solar modules in the fourth quarter to 98 cents per watt, breaking the $1 per watt price barrier.

“This achievement marks a milestone in the solar industry’s evolution toward providing truly sustainable energy solutions,” said Mike Ahearn, First Solar chief executive officer. “First Solar is proud to be leading the way toward clean, affordable solar electricity as a viable alternative to fossil fuels.”

First Solar began full commercial operation of its initial manufacturing line in late 2004. From 2004 through today, manufacturing capacity has grown 2,500 percent to more than 500 megawatts in 2008. First Solar’s annual production capacity will double in 2009 to more than 1 gigawatt, the equivalent of an average-sized nuclear power plant. These escalating volumes have been accompanied by a rapid reduction in manufacturing costs. From 2004 through today, First Solar’s manufacturing costs have declined two-thirds from over $3 per watt to less than $1 per watt. First Solar is confident that further significant cost reductions are possible based on the yet untapped potential of its technology and manufacturing process.

First Solar is not only committed to making solar power affordable but also to making it environmentally sustainable. The Company takes responsibility for its products throughout their life cycle, ensuring that First Solar modules have the smallest carbon footprint of any current photovoltaic (PV) technology. First Solar is proud to have the industry’s first and only comprehensive pre-funded, end-of-life module collection and recycling program, recycling more than 90 percent of each collected module into new products.

 

[Barb]

Blu, I don't always agree with you, but your arguments are, at least, intellectually consistent. That's a respectable characteristic.

 

[Barb]

those people could have not joined a pension plan, could have had other investments besides a pension, and could have lived frugally enough to not rely on the pension. they also could ahve diverisifed any investments they had control over. personal responsibility goes a long way. and the main greed here is from BP not america. people in america were fine with BP until they shit over hundreds of thousnda of peoples jobs and livelihood for decades to come

You are such a judgmental ass. "These people" did the right thing - the responsible thing (ohhh, maybe that's your issue with them... perhaps you think they should have relied on state handouts, like the good socialists do).... Every month, year in and year out, they put money into a pension plan to give themselves a better life once they retire. And ignorant fuckers like you think you know better than they do.

You arrogant fucking asshole. I hope one day it happens to you. I'd really enjoy you getting crapped on by something you had no control over - despite having done the right thing.

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

Ok, Blu, be fair. Not everyone has your level of financial expertise, just like not everyone can be their own doctor, or lawyer. We humans do depend upon experts and authorities to handle what we do not have enough knowledge to. We were raised to respect and trust authority, and on some subjects defer to such authority. Maybe that's not always wise, but few know enough about everything to handle every aspect of their own affairs efficiently.

 

[blu]

You are such a judgmental ass. "These people" did the right thing - the responsible thing (ohhh, maybe that's your issue with them... perhaps you think they should have relied on state handouts, like the good socialists do).... Every month, year in and year out, they put money into a pension plan to give themselves a better life once they retire. And ignorant fuckers like you think you know better than they do.

You arrogant fucking asshole. I hope one day it happens to you. I'd really enjoy you getting crapped on by something you had no control over - despite having done the right thing.

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

Ok, Blu, be fair. Not everyone has your level of financial expertise, just like not everyone can be their own doctor, or lawyer. We humans do depend upon experts and authorities to handle what we do not have enough knowledge to. We were raised to respect and trust authority, and on some subjects defer to such authority. Maybe that's not always wise, but few know enough about everything to handle every aspect of their own affairs efficiently.

I have a strong distrust of everyone and everything. I would rather go without than have someone else do something for me. I have worked on it some though. It used to be so bad I would buy dentist tools and such so that I didn't have to have the dentist clean/fix things for me, and the same for doctors tools.

 

[Barb]

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

Ok, Blu, be fair. Not everyone has your level of financial expertise, just like not everyone can be their own doctor, or lawyer. We humans do depend upon experts and authorities to handle what we do not have enough knowledge to. We were raised to respect and trust authority, and on some subjects defer to such authority. Maybe that's not always wise, but few know enough about everything to handle every aspect of their own affairs efficiently.

I have a strong distrust of everyone and everything. I would rather go without than have someone else do something for me. I have worked on it some though. It used to be so bad I would buy dentist tools and such so that I didn't have to have the dentist clean/fix things for me, and the same for doctors tools.

I can appreciate that, have a few control issues myself (don't want anyone controlling me, don't want to control anyone else), and trust is hard to come by. Usually a disappointment follows that confirms the suspicion. Still, you can't blame everyone who trusted a financial expert for the fact that the trust was misplaced and consequently abused. It simply isn't fair.

 

[Colin]

these people either invested in a bad company by themselves or allow their retirement to. in a free market you are not guaranteed success and the government should not bail you out when you fail. I really don't understand why I should feel sorry for people who invested in BP since they knew they were taking a risk when doing so and in this case they lost. They should have invested smarted by diversifying investments or having a plan if their one hope (BP) were to fall

Listen, you total fucking moron.... Most UK pension plans don't provide an option as to what shares plan members buy... you pay into the plan and the fund managers invest in the most profitable shares.

In the UK, there are thousands of ordinary retirees who rely on those payments to LIVE. They don't own massive houses, they don't drive expensive cars, they don't take expensive holidays.... they struggle to pay their bills and heat their homes in winter.

So fuck you... Don't you ever take the moral highground again, because I will remind you of your shitty attitude towards these innocent victims of American greed.... You should be ashamed of yourself - but you're probably too fucking stupid to know that.

those people could have not joined a pension plan, could have had other investments besides a pension, and could have lived frugally enough to not rely on the pension. they also could ahve diverisifed any investments they had control over. personal responsibility goes a long way. and the main greed here is from BP not america. people in america were fine with BP until they shit over hundreds of thousnda of peoples jobs and livelihood for decades to come

What fucking planet are you living on! Pensions are the bedrock of one's retirement! Oh how wonderful it must be to exist as an ignoramus!

 

[Colin]

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

Ok, Blu, be fair. Not everyone has your level of financial expertise, just like not everyone can be their own doctor, or lawyer. We humans do depend upon experts and authorities to handle what we do not have enough knowledge to. We were raised to respect and trust authority, and on some subjects defer to such authority. Maybe that's not always wise, but few know enough about everything to handle every aspect of their own affairs efficiently.

I have a strong distrust of everyone and everything. I would rather go without than have someone else do something for me. I have worked on it some though. It used to be so bad I would buy dentist tools and such so that I didn't have to have the dentist clean/fix things for me, and the same for doctors tools.

Ah. Suddenly everything falls into place.

 

[California Girl]

those people could have not joined a pension plan, could have had other investments besides a pension, and could have lived frugally enough to not rely on the pension. they also could ahve diverisifed any investments they had control over. personal responsibility goes a long way. and the main greed here is from BP not america. people in america were fine with BP until they shit over hundreds of thousnda of peoples jobs and livelihood for decades to come

You are such a judgmental ass. "These people" did the right thing - the responsible thing (ohhh, maybe that's your issue with them... perhaps you think they should have relied on state handouts, like the good socialists do).... Every month, year in and year out, they put money into a pension plan to give themselves a better life once they retire. And ignorant fuckers like you think you know better than they do.

You arrogant fucking asshole. I hope one day it happens to you. I'd really enjoy you getting crapped on by something you had no control over - despite having done the right thing.

I rely on no one but myself to handle my money and that isn't going to change. I would never allow my livelyhood and retirement into the hands of someone I never met or a process I have no control. Pensions are for lazy people who can't handle investments and want other people to handle their financial stability

That's how it works in American, you stupid fucker. Do you ever consider that other countries have different arrangements? Nope, it's our way or the high way for idiots like you. Millions of Britons pay into pension plans - because those plans combine the money and can buy better shares and produce better results for their members. Those pensioners are ordinary people, living ordinary lives, who rely on fund managers to build the assets of their plan.

I despise people who sit in judgement of other people without having a fucking clue about how things are done elsewhere. All you do is demonstrate your own fucking idiocy.

 

[California Girl]

Ok, Blu, be fair. Not everyone has your level of financial expertise, just like not everyone can be their own doctor, or lawyer. We humans do depend upon experts and authorities to handle what we do not have enough knowledge to. We were raised to respect and trust authority, and on some subjects defer to such authority. Maybe that's not always wise, but few know enough about everything to handle every aspect of their own affairs efficiently.

I have a strong distrust of everyone and everything. I would rather go without than have someone else do something for me. I have worked on it some though. It used to be so bad I would buy dentist tools and such so that I didn't have to have the dentist clean/fix things for me, and the same for doctors tools.

Ah. Suddenly everything falls into place.

Yep.

 

[California Girl]

IF THE SHAREHOLDERS are crying a river about the stock dropping then ALL THEY HAVE TO DO is NOT sell it off and buy more...the stock will rise.

the Stock dropping MEANS the shareholders are JUMPING SHIP and causing problems for other shareholders.

Most of the shares are not owned by individuals. They are owned by Funds - pensions, investments and insurance. Most of those funds are managed by experts - its the experts who are selling, not individual shareholders. Those experts act in the best interests of their clients.... not anyone else.

 

[Ravi]

these people either invested in a bad company by themselves or allow their retirement to. in a free market you are not guaranteed success and the government should not bail you out when you fail. I really don't understand why I should feel sorry for people who invested in BP since they knew they were taking a risk when doing so and in this case they lost. They should have invested smarted by diversifying investments or having a plan if their one hope (BP) were to fall

Listen, you total fucking moron.... Most UK pension plans don't provide an option as to what shares plan members buy... you pay into the plan and the fund managers invest in the most profitable shares.

In the UK, there are thousands of ordinary retirees who rely on those payments to LIVE. They don't own massive houses, they don't drive expensive cars, they don't take expensive holidays.... they struggle to pay their bills and heat their homes in winter.

So fuck you... Don't you ever take the moral highground again, because I will remind you of your shitty attitude towards these innocent victims of American greed.... You should be ashamed of yourself - but you're probably too fucking stupid to know that.

American greed, English greed...greed, greed, greed. Quit excusing one but not the other.

 

[Ravi]

The oil industry has been heavily subsidized by our government for nearly a century...

any guess to how much of our taxes has gone to them during this time?

Yep. IMO, the other technology is as un-perfect as drilling for oil and yet it isn't as risky and will serve to lessen our dependence on oil.

Then there's always that conservation thing.

 

[California Girl]

these people either invested in a bad company by themselves or allow their retirement to. in a free market you are not guaranteed success and the government should not bail you out when you fail. I really don't understand why I should feel sorry for people who invested in BP since they knew they were taking a risk when doing so and in this case they lost. They should have invested smarted by diversifying investments or having a plan if their one hope (BP) were to fall

Listen, you total fucking moron.... Most UK pension plans don't provide an option as to what shares plan members buy... you pay into the plan and the fund managers invest in the most profitable shares.

In the UK, there are thousands of ordinary retirees who rely on those payments to LIVE. They don't own massive houses, they don't drive expensive cars, they don't take expensive holidays.... they struggle to pay their bills and heat their homes in winter.

So fuck you... Don't you ever take the moral highground again, because I will remind you of your shitty attitude towards these innocent victims of American greed.... You should be ashamed of yourself - but you're probably too fucking stupid to know that.

American greed, English greed...greed, greed, greed. Quit excusing one but not the other.

The shareholders of BP stocks are not greedy. They are old people trying to make ends meet.

And, if you weren't such a partisan hack, you'd realize that. People who own stocks and shares, or have a pension plan, are not necessarily rich or greedy.

 

[Ravi]

Listen, you total fucking moron.... Most UK pension plans don't provide an option as to what shares plan members buy... you pay into the plan and the fund managers invest in the most profitable shares.

In the UK, there are thousands of ordinary retirees who rely on those payments to LIVE. They don't own massive houses, they don't drive expensive cars, they don't take expensive holidays.... they struggle to pay their bills and heat their homes in winter.

So fuck you... Don't you ever take the moral highground again, because I will remind you of your shitty attitude towards these innocent victims of American greed.... You should be ashamed of yourself - but you're probably too fucking stupid to know that.

American greed, English greed...greed, greed, greed. Quit excusing one but not the other.

The shareholders of BP stocks are not greedy. They are old people trying to make ends meet.

And, if you weren't such a partisan hack, you'd realize that. People who own stocks and shares, or have a pension plan, are not necessarily rich or greedy.

People that invest in one company are stupid. People that have diversified investments will not really have a problem with their pension plan if BP shares fall.

Shareholders must expect to lose money when things like this happen. It would be greedy of them to expect to be paid before the victims of this spill.

But keep pretending otherwise, I know it gets you through the day.