Who is Bill Ayers?

[Annie]

Impossible. The spin version of McCain accepting Hagee's endorsement is the standard response to ANY question on Obama. They're so afraid to look at him and find something questionable or wrong they can't tolerate the topic at all and immediately go on the sideways attack.

Well Jillian keeps saying we should post articles on McCain and these 'leaders' that he courted. If the articles are there and she wishes to post them, I'll read them. I wonder if McCain's praise and relationships with these folks have the depth that it appears Obama's does with Wright, Ayers, Dohrn, and for goodness sake, Michelle, who sounds a bit like all of these associates.

 

[jillian]

Well Jillian keeps saying we should post articles on McCain and these 'leaders' that he courted. If the articles are there and she wishes to post them, I'll read them. I wonder if McCain's praise and relationships with these folks have the depth that it appears Obama's does with Wright, Ayers, Dohrn, and for goodness sake, Michelle, who sounds a bit like all of these associates.

We do post them...we're told it's spin.

See, I figure whether the candidates "associates" (and, mind you, I couldn't give a flying about Ayers) are going to affect US is relevant to me. Show me where Obama is going to screw up our Constitution and our Courts to pay these people back and we'll talk.

Until then, what I'm seeing from you guys is "obama...blah blah blah blah blah..."

because none of it has a thing to do with POLICY. McCain's buddy Hagee is a nutcase for whom McCain is trading my right to self-determnation.

And, Gunny...that isn't spin. That's what McCain is SAYING he's going to do. Now THAT is relevant.... unlike Ayers.

 

[Gunny]

Your saying Hagee has nothing to do with this topic is to no avail because it's disingenuous.

It doesn't work that way. Tough if you only want to talk about Obama's "associates". McCain's competing against him for the presidency. If the "associates" of the one are relevant, certainly the associates of the other are relevant..... particularly when McCain is going to give the Courts to the loony toons.

I figure that's a fair inquiry. You don't like it or think McCain suffers by the comparison, I'm afraid that's too bad.

WRONG. What is disingenuous is your constant, repeated attempts to respond to questions about Obama and his associated by attacking completely irrelevant people. THAT is disingenuous because it does not address the topic itself in any way, shape nor form.

It isn't that I only want to talk about Obama's associates. It's that I'd like for your leftwingers to address the topic at least ONE-FREAKIN-TIME out of the myriad threads on Obama instead of deflecting.

WTF are you so afraid of? I'll tell you what. That concerns about Obama and his associates are REAL. This deflective bullshit is just an attempt to stifle the truth by changing the subject. A 5-years-old knows how to do THAT.

And "tough" nothing. I'm going to call it each and every time I see it because it shows you lefties for the scared little rabbits you are. hiding from the facts.

 

[Gunny]

Totally wrong... McCain is going to pay Hagee back by giving him a theocratic Court.

If you can't tolerate that attack, the repubs should toss the rabid religious right under the bus.

Horseshit. Pure speculation on your part and irrelevant to the topic.

There's no attack to handle. You see, I present facts, you deflect. You present fearmonger, baseless accusations, I call them what they are and move on.

Doesn't get any easier than THAT.

 

[Gunny]

Well Jillian keeps saying we should post articles on McCain and these 'leaders' that he courted. If the articles are there and she wishes to post them, I'll read them. I wonder if McCain's praise and relationships with these folks have the depth that it appears Obama's does with Wright, Ayers, Dohrn, and for goodness sake, Michelle, who sounds a bit like all of these associates.

The laugher to all this is I could care less about McCain. Post article on him. I'll question his BS too. I'm however NOT going to question fearmongering, speculative accusations that have no basis without a twist from Hell.

Same with Bush. I've criticized the Hell out of him on this board. But because I don't agree with the made up bullshit accusations, I automatically support Bush and eveything he does according to the leftwingbot so-called "logic."

 

[ReillyT]

It's that I'd like for your leftwingers to address the topic at least ONE-FREAKIN-TIME out of the myriad threads on Obama instead of deflecting.

It has been discussed ad naseum, and the issues have been addressed. Forgive us if we get bored rehashing the same arguments over and over and over. The primary arguments from supporters of Barack are as follows.

1. Relationship to Bill Ayers is limited. They are not tight. In any event, it is clear (for me at least) that BO doesn't share Ayers views.

2. J. Wright has been consistently understood without context. He preached 20 years, and there has been a focus on a few of his more extremist views. In any event, BO has said he disagrees with these views. There is no reason to believe he does agree with these views. BO has since thrown JW under the bus.

3. Rezko seems like a slimeball. No evidence has ever been produced that BO has done anything wrong. Every politician knows a couple of slimeballs.

4. BO does not wash Farrakhan's hair on Saturday nights. He didn't sign Osama bin Laden's yearbook.

In short, I (won't speak for everyone) don't think any of these people reflect BO's beliefs or who he is. If you disagree, don't vote for him, but don't get upset when we tire of rehashing this crap.

 

[Dogger]

Sure thing MORON. This from a guy that does not grasp satire.

Case in point. If you understood what Dean meant when he said right-wing traits included "mean-spirited, narrow-minded, intolerant, bullying, zealous, dogmatic", you wouldn't respond in a manner that confirms his diagnosis.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Case in point. If you understood what Dean meant when he said right-wing traits included "mean-spirited, narrow-minded, intolerant, bullying, zealous, dogmatic", you wouldn't respond in a manner that confirms his diagnosis.

LOL, you are a retard. But then we already knew that. Remind us again how you can not grasp humor or satire and assume literal word when your just to stupid to know the difference.

 

[Ravi]

I think their associates are a reflection on them (the politicians). Some bother me more than others. I don't like to see politicians pandering to religious leaders. IMO, both Obama and McCain have done this. So they are both hypocrites and cancel each other out.

Time to move on from the subject.

 

[Annie]

The laugher to all this is I could care less about McCain. Post article on him. I'll question his BS too. I'm however NOT going to question fearmongering, speculative accusations that have no basis without a twist from He*l.

Same with Bush. I've criticized the Hell out of him on this board. But because I don't agree with the made up bullshi* accusations, I automatically support Bush and eveything he does according to the leftwingbot so-called "logic."

You and I both. As I said, I haven't ran across what she seems to think is 'out there,' but if I did, I'm contrary enough to post it.

 

[Dogger]

2. J. Wright has been consistently understood without context. He preached 20 years, and there has been a focus on a few of his more extremist views. In any event, BO has said he disagrees with these views. There is no reason to believe he does agree with these views. BO has since thrown JW under the bus.

Conservatives can't understand this point; they are intellectually childlike. They can't understand the simple concept of listening to someone with whom they disagree, especially authority figures, so they assume Obama has the same immature quality, and therefore must agree with Rev. Wright.

Intellectual adults know otherwise. We can listen to opposing viewpoints without blowing a gasket. Obama has intellectual maturity, so he could listen to an authority figure like his pastor without agreeing in lockstep with everything he says. He can make up his own mind.

 

[jillian]

In short, I (won't speak for everyone) don't think any of these people reflect BO's beliefs or who he is. If you disagree, don't vote for him, but don't get upset when we tire of rehashing this crap.

Exactly right! Particularly when it's McCain who's associations are far more relevant to any presidency he might have.

 

[jillian]

Conservatives can't understand this point; they are intellectually childlike. They can't understand the simple concept of listening to someone with whom they disagree, especially authority figures, so they assume Obama has the same immature quality, and therefore must agree with Rev. Wright.

Intellectual adults know otherwise. We can listen to opposing viewpoints without blowing a gasket. Obama has intellectual maturity, so he could listen to an authority figure like his pastor without agreeing in lockstep with everything he says. He can make up his own mind.

I always use my father as an example when these things come up. I can't think of a single issue on which we agree. He has political views that I think are cringeworthy. It doesn't change our relationship. It doesn't mean I love, adore and worship him one iota less. It just means we can't talk politics... (though I did give him House of Bush House of Saud... he still hasn't read it. lol). I kinda figure that's how Obama saw Wright until Wright violated their relationship by trying to end Obama's political career.

 

[Dogger]

I always use my father as an example when these things come up. I can't think of a single issue on which we agree. He has political views that I think are cringeworthy. It doesn't change our relationship. It doesn't mean I love, adore and worship him one iota less. It just means we can't talk politics... (though I did give him House of Bush House of Saud... he still hasn't read it. lol). I kinda figure that's how Obama saw Wright until Wright violated their relationship by trying to end Obama's political career.

My dad was like that for the longest time but he eventually came around.

Al Franken said conservatives love their country like children love their mommy: with no tolerance for any criticism. Liberals have an adult relationship - we see the normal human flaws, and the room for improvement, but we love them all the same.

 

[jillian]

My dad was like that for the longest time but he eventually came around.

Al Franken said conservatives love their country like children love their mommy: with no tolerance for any criticism. Liberals have an adult relationship - we see the normal human flaws, and the room for improvement, but we love them all the same.

My dad's gotten worse as he got older and watched more Faux News. lol...

I always loved that Franken quote. It's so sad.... but so true.

 

[GHook93]

Sure, why worry who he is? Just "another" one of Obama's "normal" acquaintances. This one just bombs the Pentagon, Capitol, etc.

But let's forget all THAT ....

What a load of crap!

The guy made a speech not less then a year ago spewing out anti-government propaganda and a call to arms at a weather underground reunion meeting. He even said the use of violence should always been an option. The Michael Medvine (Sp?) played the entire speech. It was eye opening it made the Wright speech look tame.

The wife also made an amazing speech in which she stated that Americans need to watch their children.

Maybe the author should rephrase the article to what is wrong with American colleges that some anti-american ultra-liberal wackos infiltrate the college and indoctrinate kids with their crazy logic.

I wouldn't expect less from the suntimes. They give the hate-mongering anti-semite owner of the "Electronic Intifada" a voice on their paper.

 

[GHook93]

why do we care? seriously. is he running around telling people to blow up stuff now?

Seems he's pretty much beyond reproach now.

YES he is! I wish I could find a taping of the Weather Underground's Union conference. He did exactly that. It was some of the worst anti-american and anti-government propaganda I have heard in a long time.

 

[jillian]

YES he is! I wish I could find a taping of the Weather Underground's Union conference. He did exactly that. It was some of the worst anti-american and anti-government propaganda I have heard in a long time.

And, assuming that's correct, and I haven't seen it, so I don't know, but I'll take your word for it, will those comments in any way influence Obama's policies the way Hagee will influence (has influenced) McCain's?

 

[GHook93]

Again, why do we care? And why aren't we posting articles about the good rev hagee the nutcase? (you know the guy who McCain INTENTIONALLY SOUGHT OUT and who McCain will now owe!) See, to me, THAT is relevant, especially when the candidate does THIS as payback...

From the man who called the rabid religious right "agents of intolerance":

Try comparing apples to apples here a little bit. The big problem witht he left is they don't really care if they get a comparison right.

Hagee endorsed McCain. Hagee is not McCain pastor, political advisor, business associate or even friend.

Wright, and the New evenly controversail Pastor Moss are Obama's Pastors and spiritual advisors. Ayers is Obama's friend.

If you want to go with all the people that endorse Obama look no further than the racist New Black Panther Party, Hamas and Farahkan! I would rather have Hagee's endorsement than any one of them!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0507mccainmay07,0,3516143.story

I think someone who wants to be president should know what Marbury v Madison says about juditial review and should admit it's his OWN radical judges who are striking down legislation:

from the same article:

Where does it address McCain's understanding of Marbury v Madison? Any the suntimes weak leftist attack is a poor understanding of conservative judges! As a lawyer you should know that a Judge takes a job to uphold the constitution of the United States. Produce a better article where Scalia or any of the other conservative judges want to over-turn M v. M. That is such a ridiculous attack.

Maybe McCain needs to take one of Obama's classes on the constitution.... because he's certainly not familiar with the document.

Maybe you need to do more research on conservative judges!

So where are the articles, Kathianne, about McCain selling out to Hagee and the boys? Where are the articles about HIS associations?

Selling out. LOL, he accepted an endorsement. McCain never called an anti-american terrorist a friend or sat in a church for 20+ years where the pastor states that the US government put AIDS in the American community and repeatedly says "God Damn America!"

 

[doeton]

man it is incredible.

apparently this campaign is more about what someone associated with a candidate may have said than what the candidate themselves said. heaven forbid anyone actually listen to the Man (cue up bitter comment).


and 'associated' is a loose word here.

the ayers 'relationship' is a crook.

they were on a board together. big fricking whoop. are repubs who serve on committees with dims tainted?

it's is a fricking asinine connection...it's practically as asinine as it would be to say McCain should be questioned because of his association with with the terrorists at the Hanoi Hilton.

find an Obama quote saying he respects Ayers. and there'd actually be something here.