Who Here Supports a Draft?

[Tech_Esq]

No need for a draft, unless we are planning to go to war with China. A profession army is 10 times better than a conscripted one.

I agree.

We were able to have a much larger all volunteer army in the past. (17+ Army divisions compared to 10 now.) There is no reason to institute a draft to get a larger army unless we are going to do what we ought to do and put 36 million men under arms and take out the Islamo-fascists once and for all. I see NO will to do that. That being the case, I definitely think we should expand our capacity so that we can meet our present needs, but that need is not so great as to require a draft.

 

[BrianH]

I agree.

We were able to have a much larger all volunteer army in the past. (17+ Army divisions compared to 10 now.) There is no reason to institute a draft to get a larger army unless we are going to do what we ought to do and put 36 million men under arms and take out the Islamo-fascists once and for all. I see NO will to do that. That being the case, I definitely think we should expand our capacity so that we can meet our present needs, but that need is not so great as to require a draft.

Exactly....

The argument brought forth by the original poster, was that a drafted army would be cheaper and more efficient. He based his theory on BS that didn't even remotely relate to the military. He would rather replace an army of professionals who volunteered and wanted to be there, with millions of people who don't want to be there. I'm all for a large military...it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Many nations go the majority of their existence without catastrophic warfare that threaten their survival...however, the few times it did arise....a large or small military made the difference. History shows this.

 

[Gunny]

I think he's a politically paranoid scitzo.

Or a close facsimilie thereof.

Welcome aboard, Marine.

 

[CSM]

YOUR Military? You fucking waste of space. Its politically paranoid scitzos like you, who think the military is YOURS, that give us war in perpetuity against a verb like the current iteration of the war in Vietnam currently in the middle east. The only thing killing the draft did is make these half-witted excursions a reality for people who view the world like Stalin did.

Your fucking military....

Talk about a waste of space! Not only am I glad you are not in MY military (yes MINE....ALL MINE) but you are wasting MY air by even breathing it and keeping those two working brain cells of yours alive.

 

[CSM]

Id imagine that "my" military was in reference to their service IN the military.


what a silly strawman to tangent the topic of the thread..

You are correct.

 

[editec]

I think the all volunteer military is a grand system.

The ONLY time we should have a draft is in time of extreme national emergency.

 

[Ravi]

I think the all volunteer military is a grand system.

The ONLY time we should have a draft is in time of extreme national emergency.

We probably wouldn't need one then.

 

[editec]

We probably wouldn't need one then.

Probably not.

And we don't ned one now, either.

Let us consider the adage:

"When all you got in your tool chest is a hammer, eventually every problem looks like a nail"

 

[Gunny]

I think the all volunteer military is a grand system.

The ONLY time we should have a draft is in time of extreme national emergency.

A draft would probably never work in this country now. The common bond that once held this nation together is tenuous at best. Add to that a subculture that believes they as individuals are more important than the Nation itself, and it would probably lead to nothing but chaos.

 

[mightypeon]

I do not agree with Drafted Armies sucking in General.
The Red Army, the Wehrmacht and even the Imperial Japanese army (imho the worlds most overrated military but thats another topic) where fairly powerfull military entities. However, Draft is likely not the way to go for the US, since relative liberalism, interventionism and a Draft army would not work well together.

 

[BrianH]

I do not agree with Drafted Armies sucking in General.
The Red Army, the Wehrmacht and even the Imperial Japanese army (imho the worlds most overrated military but thats another topic) where fairly powerfull military entities. However, Draft is likely not the way to go for the US, since relative liberalism, interventionism and a Draft army would not work well together.

The crap would have to hit our symbolic fan before I would consider a draft...

 

[Orange_Juice]

There will never be another draft. The people will never consent to it

 

[Charles_Main]

So wait this guy thinks a conscripted army is more efficient? What planet does he live on?

 

[DiamondDave]

In case of a major conflict with a major sized enemy, the people WILL support a draft

I am not in favor of a draft unless there is absolute need. Our volunteer military is more than sufficient in this time.

However... I would be in favor of.. .instead of handing out free college grants etc... that any person receiving college funds or similar entitlements be required to give government service in return, for repayment of the favor... if those looking for the grant or handout are not in favor of such service, they do not have to take it. They could then work for themselves to pay for their college

 

[jillian]

I've always thought public service in exchange for college money is a fair deal. But I also don't have a problem with giving college funds to needy people.

 

[DiamondDave]

I've always thought public service in exchange for college money is a fair deal. But I also don't have a problem with giving college funds to needy people.

Well... by definition, anyone can be 'needy' depending on the situation at hand...

I am not in favor of entitlements with nothing in return. Hell, I may actually support more of a 'workfare' system if it would come up...

The government should never be giving something out for nothing. Personal responsibility should take care of any able bodied and able minded person's needs. If it does not, that is on the individual, not the government. Charities that are voluntarily donated to should be the source of aid to individuals.

 

[Charles_Main]

I've always thought public service in exchange for college money is a fair deal. But I also don't have a problem with giving college funds to needy people.

I agree. The Military is one way for many who could not afford to otherwise, to go to college.

 

[mightypeon]

I have the opinion (based on examples like the Wehrmacht, the German Army of World War 1, the red Army, the Imperial Japanese Army the North Vietnamese Army, Napoleons Army and a bunch of others) that a Drafted army can, depending on the circumstances, be a very effective fighting force.
However, these circumstance would be things like:

1. Beeing in a major war against a fairly conventional opponent not that far from home.
2. Having sufficient political/public opinion support to continue this war for a long time.
3. Beeing a fairly repressive system helps, there seem to be ample synergys between repressive systems and drafting.

However, the US is fighting interventionistic anti insurgency wars against nonconventional opponents, these wars are fought far away from the US borders. Both the domestic and the foreign politcal support for this wars leave a lot to be desired.
Last but not least, while the US became more repressive in the years following 9/11, it is by no means as repressive as most of the states that were succesfull with "offensive" drafting.

Bottomline: Drafting can be a great option for a number of countries, but the US is not among them. Neither right now nor in the foreseeable future. I kinda doubt that Canada or Mexiko will become opponents in a conventional war soon.

P.S. Germany also has an "enlist as a future officer and go to College while receiving an NCO salary" system, however, due to German colleges beeing much less expensive (at most 500 bucks per semester) the incentive of joining the army on this grounds is much lower.

 

[editec]

I'd have never made it through college without the GI bill.

This is the current system for educational bennies

How many months of assistance can I receive? ​

[FONT=Arial,Arial]Generally, you may receive up to 36 months of entitlement under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. [/FONT]
How much will I receive? ​

[FONT=Arial,Arial]You are entitled to a percentage, as determined by your length of active duty service, of the following: [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

1. -

[/FONT]

1. [FONT=Arial,Arial]Amount of tuition and fees charged, not to exceed the most expensive in-State undergraduate tuition at a public institution of higher education (paid to school);[/FONT]
   [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
   [*]- [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial]Monthly housing allowance equal to the basic allowance for housing (BAH) amount payable to a military E-5 with dependents, in same zip code as school * (paid to you);[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial]

and ​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Arial]Yearly books and supplies stipend of up to $1000* per year (paid to you); and [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Arial]A one time payment of $500 may be payable to certain individuals relocating from highly rural areas. (paid to you) [/FONT]​

[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you served for three years on active duty and separated, and you are going to school full-time, in the above example you would be eligible for $6700 for tuition and fees, the monthly housing allowance, and $1000 for books and supplies. [/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Arial,Arial]If you aggregated 12 months of active duty service in the guard or reserves, and were going to school full-time, you would be eligible for $4020 (60% of $6700) for tuition and fees, $600 (60% of $1000) for books and supplies [/FONT]​

[/FONT]

I'm not exacly sure, because the system is so different that what I got, but these actually look slightly better than Viet Nam era vets got. I think I got about $300 a month while I was in school full time and that was it.​

Compared to WWII and Korean Era vets, (full tuition to any school, plus housing and transportation aid, plus books and materials aid, paid in full) they're not nearly as good, of course.​

The GI bill is one of the best investments in the future that America can make, in my opinion.​

I DO think there should be a civilian equivalent for those willing to perform other valuable civil services, like fighting fires, working in government hospitals and so forth.​

My proposal would be to give those people the same benefits the WWII vets got -- one year's bennies for one year's service.​

 

[BrianH]

There will never be another draft. The people will never consent to it

What proof do you have that there will never be another draft? NONE. You say it as if it's fact.

I garauntee you if we faced a World War on a large scale...there would most certainly be a draft. If our existence as a nation was threatened, people would consent to a draft. Then again, if that were the case, you may have an even large volunteer army. People will not consent to a draft for Iraq and or Iran. The circumstances of war most certainly will dictate whether or not people will support a draft. Never say Never