Who are your top major league baseball pitchers, all-time?

[bluzman61]

I'm REALLY starting to miss baseball. So I've decided to keep it alive, at least by talking about it. My top 5 pitchers all-time are - 1) Walter Johnson - possibly THE most overpowering pitcher ever. He won over 400 games and finished his career with over 4,000 strikeouts. And I believe he holds the all-time record for shutouts with 110. Just a fantastic pitcher. 2) Sandy Koufax, my pick for the best left handed pitcher ever. His last several seasons were phenomenal, it's a shame he retired so young because of arm problems. 3) Cy Young, great pitcher, the award for pitcher of the year was quite aptly named after him. His 511 career wins will NEVER be broken. 4) Roger Clemens, I've included him despite his alleged steroid use. IF he wasn't guilty of this, he's definitely my #4 pick. From what I've read, it's hard to tell if he WAS guilty of using banned substances. He was nearly as overpowering a pitcher as Walter Johnson and he put up some eye-popping numbers throughout his career. 5) Randy Johnson, THE most overpowering and menacing left handed pitcher all-time. He had just a fantastic career, highlighted by his 2001 season, where he helped the Arizona Diamondbacks win it all, including their exciting 7 game World Series crown over the New York Yankees. And I believe he's the tallest major league baseball player ever, at 6 feet, 10 inches. So here's MY top picks, who are some of yours?

Good list. In fairness I would have to consider Cy Young and Christy Mathewson and maybe Nolan Ryan.

Hard to assess old time pitchers. It was a dead ball era

The pitcher I would have liked to see in his prime.....Satchel Paige

View attachment 322994

If we can assess presidents back to 1782, we can assess pitchers in 1882.

For the most part, compared to a modern pitcher....
You can assess they suck

i agree the ball was like a soft ball.....in 1909 Ty Cobb had 9 homers and led the league....all of a sudden when they tightened up the ball Ruth hit 29 and then 54 homers.....in 1922 other guys were figuring out how to hit the long ball....

There was a guy called Frank homerun Baker who I think led the league with 14 homers

the most home runs hit in the dead ball era 1900-1918 was 24 by Gavvy Cravath in 1915.....only 2 men reached 20 in that era....

And, of course, Babe Ruth changed all of that.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm REALLY starting to miss baseball. So I've decided to keep it alive, at least by talking about it. My top 5 pitchers all-time are - 1) Walter Johnson - possibly THE most overpowering pitcher ever. He won over 400 games and finished his career with over 4,000 strikeouts. And I believe he holds the all-time record for shutouts with 110. Just a fantastic pitcher. 2) Sandy Koufax, my pick for the best left handed pitcher ever. His last several seasons were phenomenal, it's a shame he retired so young because of arm problems. 3) Cy Young, great pitcher, the award for pitcher of the year was quite aptly named after him. His 511 career wins will NEVER be broken. 4) Roger Clemens, I've included him despite his alleged steroid use. IF he wasn't guilty of this, he's definitely my #4 pick. From what I've read, it's hard to tell if he WAS guilty of using banned substances. He was nearly as overpowering a pitcher as Walter Johnson and he put up some eye-popping numbers throughout his career. 5) Randy Johnson, THE most overpowering and menacing left handed pitcher all-time. He had just a fantastic career, highlighted by his 2001 season, where he helped the Arizona Diamondbacks win it all, including their exciting 7 game World Series crown over the New York Yankees. And I believe he's the tallest major league baseball player ever, at 6 feet, 10 inches. So here's MY top picks, who are some of yours?

Good list. In fairness I would have to consider Cy Young and Christy Mathewson and maybe Nolan Ryan.

There was a guy called Frank homerun Baker who I think led the league with 14 homers

i saw a thing called the history of the home run years ago......they said the ball was tightened up around 1919 and the game changed.....Ruth led the league in 1918 with 11 HR's....1919 he hits 29.....1920 54...1921 59....thats a big jump.... 1922 was when other guys started hitting 30.....

 

[bluzman61]

I'm REALLY starting to miss baseball. So I've decided to keep it alive, at least by talking about it. My top 5 pitchers all-time are - 1) Walter Johnson - possibly THE most overpowering pitcher ever. He won over 400 games and finished his career with over 4,000 strikeouts. And I believe he holds the all-time record for shutouts with 110. Just a fantastic pitcher. 2) Sandy Koufax, my pick for the best left handed pitcher ever. His last several seasons were phenomenal, it's a shame he retired so young because of arm problems. 3) Cy Young, great pitcher, the award for pitcher of the year was quite aptly named after him. His 511 career wins will NEVER be broken. 4) Roger Clemens, I've included him despite his alleged steroid use. IF he wasn't guilty of this, he's definitely my #4 pick. From what I've read, it's hard to tell if he WAS guilty of using banned substances. He was nearly as overpowering a pitcher as Walter Johnson and he put up some eye-popping numbers throughout his career. 5) Randy Johnson, THE most overpowering and menacing left handed pitcher all-time. He had just a fantastic career, highlighted by his 2001 season, where he helped the Arizona Diamondbacks win it all, including their exciting 7 game World Series crown over the New York Yankees. And I believe he's the tallest major league baseball player ever, at 6 feet, 10 inches. So here's MY top picks, who are some of yours?

Good list. In fairness I would have to consider Cy Young and Christy Mathewson and maybe Nolan Ryan.

There was a guy called Frank homerun Baker who I think led the league with 14 homers

i saw a thing called the history of the home run years ago......they said the ball was tightened up around 1919 and the game changed.....Ruth led the league in 1918 with 11 HR's....1919 he hits 29.....1920 54...1921 59....thats a big jump.... 1922 was when other guys started hitting 30.....

The baseballs themselves MUST have changed somehow for THAT drastic a rise in home runs. Thanks for the info.

 

[eddiew]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

 

[WelfareQueen]

This has been a cool thread. And all the pitchers named were great. You can't really argue against a Koufax, Martinez, etc. They are all in the HOF for a reason.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Oh.....and some have mentioned not understanding the WAR stat. It stands for wins above replacement. So Pedro Martinez career WAR of 83.9 means versus a typical Major League pitcher Pedro would have won 83.9 more games. That sounds about right to me and indicates Pedro was a really, really good Major League player.

The minimum WAR for a HOF is usually in the 40's. Maddux WAR 106.1. Randy Johnson 101.1 and Pedro Martinez 83.9. All were first ballot HOF'ers. The WAR stat among many others confirms how dominate they were.


Career ERA


Pedro 2.93

Maddux 3.16

Johnson 3.29


This tells me all three were really, really good. Pedro's career was much shorter than Johnson and Maddux which is why he is not anywhere near their career wins. But while he pitched he was dominate.


rightwinger

 

[Harry Dresden]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

 

[IM2]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

 

[IM2]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

Player toughness has not changed. Better equipment is the difference.

 

[eddiew]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

Player toughness has not changed. Better equipment is the difference.

Ty Cobb was one mean sob ,,with sharp spikes

 

[IM2]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

Player toughness has not changed. Better equipment is the difference.

Ty Cobb was one mean sob ,,with sharp spikes

Ty Cobb cheated. But he could hit.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh.....and some have mentioned not understanding the WAR stat. It stands for wins above replacement. So Pedro Martinez career WAR of 83.9 means versus a typical Major League pitcher Pedro would have won 83.9 more games. That sounds about right to me and indicates Pedro was a really, really good Major League player.

The minimum WAR for a HOF is usually in the 40's. Maddux WAR 106.1. Randy Johnson 101.1 and Pedro Martinez 83.9. All were first ballot HOF'ers. The WAR stat among many others confirms how dominate they were.


Career ERA


Pedro 2.93

Maddux 3.16

Johnson 3.29


This tells me all three were really, really good. Pedro's career was much shorter than Johnson and Maddux which is why he is not anywhere near their career wins. But while he pitched he was dominate.


rightwinger

I know what WAR stands for but how do I calculate it in my head?

Answer is.....you don’t.

I can’t tie it to a specific skill or result. Does WAR include defensive ability? If your “replacements” at a position suck, is your WAR inflated? How do you set a WAR for a catcher where defensive skills and handling pitchers is so vital?

Give me straight numbers and let me figure out how good you are.

 

[22lcidw]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

Pitchers pitched a lot longer back then. In years and innings. Today, a starting pitcher goes 6 innings and then is removed much more casually. Back then it seems a pitcher had to go 8 innings at least. Money has a lot to do with this. And there are players who have abilities but can not last as long due to minor and major injuries.

 

[rightwinger]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

Pitchers pitched a lot longer back then. In years and innings. Today, a starting pitcher goes 6 innings and then is removed much more casually. Back then it seems a pitcher had to go 8 innings at least. Money has a lot to do with this. And there are players who have abilities but can not last as long due to minor and major injuries.

It’s a different game today.
Pitchers back then paced themselves to go nine innings. They pitched on four days rest. They were not tougher or stronger than today’s pitchers. They just had a different role.
Bullpens were a last resort back then. Today, the bullpen is full of studs. Pitchers today throw harder but only go seven innings and then turn the ball over

 

[eddiew]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

Player toughness has not changed. Better equipment is the difference.

Ty Cobb was one mean sob ,,with sharp spikes

Ty Cobb cheated. But he could hit.

And steal bases with spikes high

 

[IM2]

Remember they didn't have helmets back then Get hit in the head and goodbye

the guys were tough back then Eddie....

Player toughness has not changed. Better equipment is the difference.

Ty Cobb was one mean sob ,,with sharp spikes

Ty Cobb cheated. But he could hit.

And steal bases with spikes high

Yes he did. Cobb had serious issues.

 

[IM2]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

Pitchers pitched a lot longer back then. In years and innings. Today, a starting pitcher goes 6 innings and then is removed much more casually. Back then it seems a pitcher had to go 8 innings at least. Money has a lot to do with this. And there are players who have abilities but can not last as long due to minor and major injuries.

It’s a different game today.
Pitchers back then paced themselves to go nine innings. They pitched on four days rest. They were not tougher or stronger than today’s pitchers. They just had a different role.
Bullpens were a last resort back then. Today, the bullpen is full of studs. Pitchers today throw harder but only go seven innings and then turn the ball over

Very true. That's why I think hitters are better now, because they face fresh pitchers for the whole game.

 

[eddiew]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

Pitchers pitched a lot longer back then. In years and innings. Today, a starting pitcher goes 6 innings and then is removed much more casually. Back then it seems a pitcher had to go 8 innings at least. Money has a lot to do with this. And there are players who have abilities but can not last as long due to minor and major injuries.

It’s a different game today.
Pitchers back then paced themselves to go nine innings. They pitched on four days rest. They were not tougher or stronger than today’s pitchers. They just had a different role.
Bullpens were a last resort back then. Today, the bullpen is full of studs. Pitchers today throw harder but only go seven innings and then turn the ball over

Very true. That's why I think hitters are better now, because they face fresh pitchers for the whole game.

Don't you think facing a tiring pitcher is better for the hitter ? Also goosing up the ball helps a lot

 

[eddiew]

Also a hitter sees the same pitcher a few times he has an idea of what he's throwing New guy not so much

 

[rightwinger]

I will start with Satchel Page. He was striking out major league batters at 50. Nolan Ryan must be respected. Bob Gibson. Juan Marichal. Don Drysdale. Sandy Koufax. Randy Johnson. The Orioles had quite a staff in the 70's and 80's, But Jim Palmer was probably the best one. Clemons was dominant. Dwight Gooden. CY Young, Walter Johnson. Bob Feller. Maddox. Glavine. Vida Blue. Ferguson Jenkins. The Niekro Brothers. Catfish Hunter. Louis Tiant. Kershaw. Verlander and Scherzer. There are so many and I've forgotten some. And if you add relief pitchers then you got Quizenberry, Rivera. Hoffman. Schmoltz. Eckersley, Gossage.

Pitchers pitched a lot longer back then. In years and innings. Today, a starting pitcher goes 6 innings and then is removed much more casually. Back then it seems a pitcher had to go 8 innings at least. Money has a lot to do with this. And there are players who have abilities but can not last as long due to minor and major injuries.

It’s a different game today.
Pitchers back then paced themselves to go nine innings. They pitched on four days rest. They were not tougher or stronger than today’s pitchers. They just had a different role.
Bullpens were a last resort back then. Today, the bullpen is full of studs. Pitchers today throw harder but only go seven innings and then turn the ball over

Very true. That's why I think hitters are better now, because they face fresh pitchers for the whole game.

My only gripe with today’s hitters is they are not as versatile. Can’t hit to the opposite field, can’t hit and run, can’t bunt to save their lives.......swing for the fences on every pitch