Who are the real bigots?

[thereisnospoon]

By and large, the prejudice that exists is a matter of a lack of understanding.

It has long been common knowledge that much discrimination is based on ignorance.

True. What you fear most is that which you know the least about.

I wonder how many homophobes actually know a gay couple?

Enough to know that they do not wish to know. And that's the way it is.
It's called minding one's own business.
I do not want to know these people. I don't wish to interact with them. I absolutely oppose being forced to accept their lifestyle. It is their personal affair. It should be kept that way.
On a personal note, I think gay people should do whatever makes them happy so as long as I am not involved or forced to be relieved of my core beliefs on the matter.
5 billion people on this planet love the sport of soccer. I cannot watch the game for 30 seconds without requiring a pot of coffee to stay awake.
I understand the culture of the fandom of soccer. I choose not to get involved.
No I am not "comparing soccer fanatacism to gay marriage. I simply am making an analogy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I came across this blog earlier today, and it got me to thinking about bigotry. I suggest that everyone who thinks that the bigots are the people that vote against same sex marriage are small minded read the whole thing.

After last night’s vote, I heard a disturbingly large number of my friends, national commentators, and others suggesting that this vote just proves that North Carolinians (or at least a giant percentage of us) are bigoted, homophobic, backwards people who are so filled with hate that we oppose equality for certain groups just because we can. And see, that’s just not the case. Yes, I voted against the amendment, as did many of my friends and hundreds of thousands of other NC residents. But I also know people who voted for it, and I know that they are not simply bigoted, homophobic, backwards people. It’s way more complicated than that.
Is there a lot of prejudice in North Carolina against LGBT people? Absolutely there is. But it’s not, as some have imagined, just a matter of “bigoted homophobes.” By and large, the prejudice that exists is a matter of a lack of understanding. Many of the folks I’ve talked to honestly believe that people choose to be gay and could choose not to be. They think that giving legal recognition to same-sex partnerships would increase the number of people choosing to be gay, and would therefore encourage more people to turn away from God’s plan for their lives. When they talk about homosexuality as a “perversion,” they’re not trying to be bigoted or mean; they’re being quite literal about it.
Those folks aren’t the only ones who supported the amendment, but in my experience, they make up the lion’s share of those who were most vocally in support. My Christian friends who understand what my life has been like as a gay Christian may not support same-sex marriage, but they tend to be way more thoughtful and careful about these questions, and they are the ones who felt most torn about this amendment and all the legal and moral issues it raised.
That’s why I posted to Facebook: “Yes, my state’s vote tonight saddens me. But it is not, as some have imagined, about intentional bigotry. It is about a lack of understanding, pure and simple—of who we are, what we want, and why it matters. Education is needed, and that is what I will keep dedicating myself to, every single day of my life.”

Crumbs from the Communion Table • A challenge to both sides of the Amendment One debate.


Next time somebody wants to dismiss everyone who disagrees with their views about same sex marriage as a bigot they should remember what the word actually means and take a step to end the intolerance.


Bigot [big-uht] (noun) a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

What I find humorous is that in 2008 there enough liberals in the state of NC to give Obama their 13 electoral votes. Based on that fact, where were they last Tuesday? All those liberal, seemingly favorable to gay marriage voters?
Turnout was very high in NC. Over 60% of eligible voters. Could it be NC has far fewer libs than many election analysts thought? Or is that even moderate libs and middle of the road democrat voters actually do not favor gay marriage?
This is what kills me about the left. They expect all democrats to march in 100% lockstep with the "cause".

 

[JakeStarkey]

I gather dems no more march in lock step than pubs. Unless it is refusing to govern: that McConnell and Boehner got bent over by the TP caucuses and taught a lesson. What will be fun will be the assignments that don't go to the rump remainder of the TP still in Congress in January, which will be at least 50% less than now.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"I am not dismissing everyone who disagrees with me, all I am doing is pointing out that the people who dismiss everyone who disagrees with them as a bigot is showing a high degree of intolerance and bigotry."

Live the words, or metaphorically die by them.

Is that too complicated for you to understand? Should I say it again using one syllable words?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Is bigotry always a bad thing?

I am rather bigoted against sexual predators.

My bigotry against those folks doesn't keep me awake at night from guilt.

Are you equating gays with sexual predators?

.

Holy shit.....Really dude? Are you that much of a reactionary non-thinker?

 

[drsmith1072]

In that phrase alone you are declaring that the "bigots" are nopt the people against same sex marriage and that those who think so are "small minded." Maybe you meant to say something else but the content of your post is quite clear.

Then you go on to try to argue that those who believe bigots are against same sex marriage are bigots themselves based on your chosen defintion of "bigot."

Apparently your understanding of English is about as solid as your understanding of politics.


Ah, insulting me instead of commenting on your own words how typical.

Since you are obviously so much smarter than me, and everyone else, why don't you explain how dismissing an entire state as bigots because they voted against same sex marriage isn't small minded.

I don't know of anyone who dismissed the entire state as bigots. Especially when you consider that only 61% voted in favor of the amendment then how can the other 39% be considered bigots?? YOur logic seems flawed again.

Before you try go back and actually read the blog I linked to where an outspoken gay man who lives in North Carlina is offended by the idiots, like you, who do this because he is actually friends with some of those people, and knows that they are not making that decision based on bigotry. Or would doing so actually expose your belief system to facts that conflicting information that would cause you to short circuit if you tried to consider it?

I have no qualms with what he said. My argument is concerned with YOUR statements and how your framed your OP. Why is that so hard for your to understand?

there in lies the flaw in your argument. Pointing out bigotry does not make one a bigot. Engaging in acts that show how you are intolerant of others is bigotry. A person asking to be treated equally in the face of bigotry is not a bigot.

How is that a flaw in my argument? Did I say that people who want equal treatment are bigots?

I explained it quite clearly. Maybe you should focus on your own lack of understanding of the english language and less time worrying about mine?

No, what I said is that people who refuse to change their beliefs when presented with factual evidence that contradicts it are bigots.

that is NOT what you said in the excerpt that I was commenting on so what are you playing at now?

I can point to people on the right in this thread who are being bigots without a bit of a problem.

you and your seven personalities don't count as 8. Instead of claimng that you can do why not just do it?

I can also point to people on the left who are being bigots, one of them is you because you refuse to admit that it is actually possible to vote against something you like unless the person doing it is a bigot even when gay man steps up to point out they aren't.

I never said anything of the kind but then you know that already don't you? So why LIE about my position like that?

Why does that offend you?

WHy does your dishonest attempt to redefine my arguments to suit your needs offend me?? Hmm? i can think of a frew reasons.

Didn't say it was. If I actually believed the claptrap you keep trying to say I do I wouldn't have admitted I am a bigot, would I?

a halfassed admission you would be "QUITE WILLING" to admit your bigotry in an attempt to give validity to your argument means very little. However, thanks anyway.

Ok we will just stop right here where you omitted part of the previous post in an attempt to avoid answering a question you knew that you could not answer even though you repeated the false allegation here in this one. here is the omission on your part

You are the one that is trying to insist that the only definition of a bigot that applies is one that excludes you.

and i asked

I am?? Really? Where?

So if you are going to be that blatantly dishoenst then what is the point of debating?

 

[JakeStarkey]

"I am not dismissing everyone who disagrees with me, all I am doing is pointing out that the people who dismiss everyone who disagrees with them as a bigot is showing a high degree of intolerance and bigotry."

Live the words, or metaphorically die by them.

Is that too complicated for you to understand? Should I say it again using one syllable words?

You understand, so for you from now on, it is put up or get shut up.

Just saying. Oh, don't act the e-thug. You are too much of a hunnee for that.

 

[koshergrl]

Pffft, lololol. You're such a bozo, js.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are such a loony goony, kg.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In that phrase alone you are declaring that the "bigots" are nopt the people against same sex marriage and that those who think so are "small minded." Maybe you meant to say something else but the content of your post is quite clear.

Then you go on to try to argue that those who believe bigots are against same sex marriage are bigots themselves based on your chosen defintion of "bigot."

Apparently your understanding of English is about as solid as your understanding of politics.


Ah, insulting me instead of commenting on your own words how typical.

Since you are obviously so much smarter than me, and everyone else, why don't you explain how dismissing an entire state as bigots because they voted against same sex marriage isn't small minded.

I don't know of anyone who dismissed the entire state as bigots. Especially when you consider that only 61% voted in favor of the amendment then how can the other 39% be considered bigots?? YOur logic seems flawed again.

Before you try go back and actually read the blog I linked to where an outspoken gay man who lives in North Carlina is offended by the idiots, like you, who do this because he is actually friends with some of those people, and knows that they are not making that decision based on bigotry. Or would doing so actually expose your belief system to facts that conflicting information that would cause you to short circuit if you tried to consider it?

I have no qualms with what he said. My argument is concerned with YOUR statements and how your framed your OP. Why is that so hard for your to understand?



I explained it quite clearly. Maybe you should focus on your own lack of understanding of the english language and less time worrying about mine?




that is NOT what you said in the excerpt that I was commenting on so what are you playing at now?



you and your seven personalities don't count as 8. Instead of claimng that you can do why not just do it?




I never said anything of the kind but then you know that already don't you? So why LIE about my position like that?



WHy does your dishonest attempt to redefine my arguments to suit your needs offend me?? Hmm? i can think of a frew reasons.

Didn't say it was. If I actually believed the claptrap you keep trying to say I do I wouldn't have admitted I am a bigot, would I?

a halfassed admission you would be "QUITE WILLING" to admit your bigotry in an attempt to give validity to your argument means very little. However, thanks anyway.

Ok we will just stop right here where you omitted part of the previous post in an attempt to avoid answering a question you knew that you could not answer even though you repeated the false allegation here in this one. here is the omission on your part

You are the one that is trying to insist that the only definition of a bigot that applies is one that excludes you.

and i asked

I am?? Really? Where?

So if you are going to be that blatantly dishoenst then what is the point of debating?

My "famed" OP consisted of two sentences. I went to the trouble of repeating them and specifically asking what it was you found offensive about them, you couldn't actually find an answer, so I guess you chose to ignore the question.

Yet, somehow, I am the close minded bigot because I do not agree with you.

Just as an aside, I never said you said the portion you emphasized in your attempt to make me look stupid, I said you refuse to admit it. You still have not done so, have you?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"I am not dismissing everyone who disagrees with me, all I am doing is pointing out that the people who dismiss everyone who disagrees with them as a bigot is showing a high degree of intolerance and bigotry."

Live the words, or metaphorically die by them.

Is that too complicated for you to understand? Should I say it again using one syllable words?

You understand, so for you from now on, it is put up or get shut up.

Just saying. Oh, don't act the e-thug. You are too much of a hunnee for that.

I am a hunnee? Thank you.

Just an FYI, I am spoken for, and I actually prefer people who can think.

 

[drsmith1072]

Thank you for answering the question. I must tell you that I did not expect that.

You are wrong though, I do know you. I know you from your posts and you are in line with the other leftwing wackos on here who have never made a single post where they said a decent thing about a conservative.

This was my question:



This was your answer:



You didn't answer the question. Have your positions ever "evolved"?

The next question you answered. Thank you.

The next question, I should have put "If not," in front.

Your next answer proves you are not very intelligent. I have already discussed the OP. No reason for me to do so again. Here was your answer:



I was responding to your post because you have a history of bigotry on this site that is almost beyond compare.

Next question:



Next answer:



Since you didn't give any examples, can I ask did you evolve into being an asshole when you joined the site and are you hoping on changing back?

Next in regards to my example you came up with this, what I am certain you consider intelligent response. It makes no sense:



Do you see me defending the right wing? Do you see me defending Republicans. Do you see me attempting to force my religious viewpoints on anyone?

And further nonsense from you:



You do realize don't you, that I was describing how I have evolved into what I believe to be a better human being. What do "many conservatives" have to do with this discussion?

Next response:



Once again, do you see me praising big government? Why are you not intelligent enough to call out the left for doing the exact same thing?

You should call people out for legitimizing discrimination. Might be a damned good idea if you started with yourself.



Hehe, that is hilarious. I have a lot of friends on this site that are liberal. I'm not intolerant of their viewpoints at all. I am intolerant of the bigotry displayed by people such as yourself and Chris, rdean, TDM, William Joyce, bripat#### and a few others.



It doesn't? Really? Have you ever made a post on this site that complemented or supported anything said by a conservative? Even one post?

You can simply answer yes or no and maybe you can name the conservative, but I don't believe you have.

So, I think I am right, you are a bigot.

Your friend,

Immie

well based on how you are obviously not interested in my responses and seem more interested in insulting me based solely on your preconceived notions about me there is no point is wasting my time responding to a hack who refuses to offer me the same courtesy.

Thanks for nothing hack.

I asked you perfectly honest questions and gave you a perfectly easy way to state that you are not the bigot you come across as. I was kind of hoping you would take the opportunity. But, you replied with bullshit bigotry. I should have known you would.

You didn't even read my reply.

It is obvious who is the bigot and that would be you. And quite frankly, I would prefer to be a hack than a discriminating bigot.

Sianora, bigot.

Immie

you did no such thing but then you have alredy been shown to be dishonest so making false claims now really isn't that much of a stretch for you is it?

Oh and i read your "reply" however, since your "replies" never really addressed the actual content of my post nor answered the questions that I asked I decided to treat you with the same avoidance that you are treating me with.

In the previous exchange I spent a lot of time responded to every aspect of your post and you couldn't do the same so there is no point in wasting my time responding to it all again when you refuse to offer me the same courtesy.

Run along little hack. LOL Thanks again for nothing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Is that too complicated for you to understand? Should I say it again using one syllable words?

You understand, so for you from now on, it is put up or get shut up.

Just saying. Oh, don't act the e-thug. You are too much of a hunnee for that.

I am a hunnee? Thank you. Just an FYI, I am spoken for, and I actually prefer people who can think.

That is good you will have someone who can think for you, because it will be needed in the marriage.

 

[Joshuatree]

I believe...that it's possible, for a gay man or a gay woman, to become heterossexual. I know for personal experience that God CAN do things that for us are impossible.

Have you ever heard about a man called Michal Glatze? He used to be one of the most well known gay activists in the USA and now he's... heterossexual!

Confessions of a former ‘gay rights’ leader

 

[Mac1958]

Is bigotry always a bad thing?

I am rather bigoted against sexual predators.

My bigotry against those folks doesn't keep me awake at night from guilt.

Are you equating gays with sexual predators?

.

Holy shit.....Really dude? Are you that much of a reactionary non-thinker?

Evidently you didn't read his response, which was in the affirmative.

But don't let that stop your little insults.

Too funny.


.

 

[Immanuel]

well based on how you are obviously not interested in my responses and seem more interested in insulting me based solely on your preconceived notions about me there is no point is wasting my time responding to a hack who refuses to offer me the same courtesy.

Thanks for nothing hack.

I asked you perfectly honest questions and gave you a perfectly easy way to state that you are not the bigot you come across as. I was kind of hoping you would take the opportunity. But, you replied with bullshit bigotry. I should have known you would.

You didn't even read my reply.

It is obvious who is the bigot and that would be you. And quite frankly, I would prefer to be a hack than a discriminating bigot.

Sianora, bigot.

Immie

you did no such thing but then you have alredy been shown to be dishonest so making false claims now really isn't that much of a stretch for you is it?

Oh and i read your "reply" however, since your "replies" never really addressed the actual content of my post nor answered the questions that I asked I decided to treat you with the same avoidance that you are treating me with.

In the previous exchange I spent a lot of time responded to every aspect of your post and you couldn't do the same so there is no point in wasting my time responding to it all again when you refuse to offer me the same courtesy.

Run along little hack. LOL Thanks again for nothing.

Didn't address the content of your posts?

You are so dishonest in this post. I responded to everyone of your deflections and responses. It is quite noticeable that you are refusing to answer the question as to whether or not you have ever made a polite response to a conservative. Your avoidance of the question which would be as simple as a yes or no answer is noteworthy.

You are an idiot. My initial post to you and every post after word did in fact address the content of your posts.

Your initial post defined bigotry with two similar definitions.

I very clearly addressed your definitions and then preceeded to further the discussion.

The only questions you have asked me in this discussion are:

Funny but you don't even know me so how can you make such a judgement without it being based on your own bias and intolerance of those who dare disagree with you?

I answered that. I said I do know you by your posts.

HUH?

Sorry, I don't have an answer to that. In English, what were you trying to ask me there?

Those are the only two questions you have asked me in this thread. One was asked and answered, the other wasn't even asked in English. I can't reply to it.

You are obviously a bigot. When you call QW a bigot you are pointing out your hypocrisy.

Be well, bigot.

Immie

 

[Darkwind]

Anyone know what a "Hero" is?

Its just a sandwich.

Anyone know what a Bigot is?

Its just an overused word with no meaning.

Anyone care to guess why bigot no longer has any value or meaning?

I won't wait up.

 

[Joshuatree]

How a ‘gay rights’ leader became straight

 

[drsmith1072]

Apparently your understanding of English is about as solid as your understanding of politics.


Ah, insulting me instead of commenting on your own words how typical.

Since you are obviously so much smarter than me, and everyone else, why don't you explain how dismissing an entire state as bigots because they voted against same sex marriage isn't small minded.

I don't know of anyone who dismissed the entire state as bigots. Especially when you consider that only 61% voted in favor of the amendment then how can the other 39% be considered bigots?? YOur logic seems flawed again.

Before you try go back and actually read the blog I linked to where an outspoken gay man who lives in North Carlina is offended by the idiots, like you, who do this because he is actually friends with some of those people, and knows that they are not making that decision based on bigotry. Or would doing so actually expose your belief system to facts that conflicting information that would cause you to short circuit if you tried to consider it?

I have no qualms with what he said. My argument is concerned with YOUR statements and how your framed your OP. Why is that so hard for your to understand?



I explained it quite clearly. Maybe you should focus on your own lack of understanding of the english language and less time worrying about mine?




that is NOT what you said in the excerpt that I was commenting on so what are you playing at now?



you and your seven personalities don't count as 8. Instead of claimng that you can do why not just do it?




I never said anything of the kind but then you know that already don't you? So why LIE about my position like that?



WHy does your dishonest attempt to redefine my arguments to suit your needs offend me?? Hmm? i can think of a frew reasons.




a halfassed admission you would be "QUITE WILLING" to admit your bigotry in an attempt to give validity to your argument means very little. However, thanks anyway.

Ok we will just stop right here where you omitted part of the previous post in an attempt to avoid answering a question you knew that you could not answer even though you repeated the false allegation here in this one. here is the omission on your part

You are the one that is trying to insist that the only definition of a bigot that applies is one that excludes you.

and i asked

I am?? Really? Where?

So if you are going to be that blatantly dishoenst then what is the point of debating?

My "famed" OP consisted of two sentences. I went to the trouble of repeating them and specifically asking what it was you found offensive about them, you couldn't actually find an answer, so I guess you chose to ignore the question.

Nope I answered it and you discarded my answer. Not my problem. Go find it if you want i am through wasting my time reposting things for you.

Yet, somehow, I am the close minded bigot because I do not agree with you.

Did I say that exactly?? Really? Care to show me when and where I said that? Not that you will based on how you have failed to back up your other attempts to redefine my posiions by putting words into my mouth.

Just as an aside, I never said you said the portion you emphasized in your attempt to make me look stupid, I said you refuse to admit it. You still have not done so, have you?

Which portion was that? specifics please. Do you really not remember what you said?

BTW how would the whole state of NC is bigoted based on how only 61% voted in favor of the amendment?

Still waiting on that list of rightwing and left bigots in this thread.

Still on you to show when and where I stated that I refuse to admit that it's possible to vote against something without being a bigot.

I can also point to people on the left who are being bigots, one of them is you because you refuse to admit that it is actually possible to vote against something you like unless the person doing it is a bigot

Still waiting on you to show where i insisted the following.

You are the one that is trying to insist that the only definition of a bigot that applies is one that excludes you

However, my guess is that you avoided them to begin with there is no point in waiting on integrity that will never come from you.

 

[drsmith1072]

Bigotry comes in all shapes and sizes. It comes from all political and sociological aspects.

Look in the mirror. You will probably see a bigot, because quite frankly, bigotry is human nature. Some can and do control it within them, but we all have our prejudices.

When I was reading this post by drsmith:



I could not but help to think that the second definition he presented fits him to a "T". There are others on the board who are "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices", but he most definitely fits the definition IMHO.

drsmith, when was the last time your position "evolved"? Have you ever met a conservative you liked? Do you think there is any possibility that you might some day in your life? Are you going to dismiss everyone who disagrees with your views as you seem to have done in the past? I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong about you. Are you willing to "evolve"?

Before you ask, I can tell you without any hesitation that my views have "evolved" in many areas. Abortion... I used to think that everyone who was pro-choice were thrilled to death at the thought of 4,000 babies dying every day. Now, I realize, the vast majority of them are just as sickened by that idea as I am, but don't want government to interfere in our lives. Gay Marriage... used to believe that marriage was a union between one man and one woman (still do that) and that the homosexuals could go screw themselves if they thought they were going to destroy the sanctity of marriage. Now, I realize that homosexuals are discriminated in many ways, that they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as citizens of the United States as I am and that the government has no right being involved in the rites of the church. Therefore, the government needs to establish civil union laws and all "marriages" need to be established under civil union contracts. Churches should be free to marry whomever they want, but a "marriage" should not be given any special priviliges by the state. Those are two areas. There are others, but I am still not willing to claim that I am not a bigot. I have my prejudices just like everyone else.

So, how, many of you are willing to be open minded and change your long held beliefs or are you willing to look yourself in the mirror and admit that you are a bigot?

Immie

You make some good points. Not sure if DrS should be the target of your wrath, but then again, he hasn't posted enough that I've read to decide.

I actually know two people that I consider conservatives that changed their minds on the gay rights issue from discussions on messagesboards. It is very gratifying to see someone have an epiphany.

And in case you don't think I've ever changed my mind, I did. About the 2nd amendment. And I even learned to not blame Dubya for all the woes in the world.

drsmith and I don't get along. I offended him once by thanking people in a thread. He claimed I thanked them for being nasty to others and I don't recall it having been that way.

I don't believe that I have ever seen him post a polite comment to a conservative. I'd simply like to see him and others on this board admit that we are all guilty of those very offenses.

Immie

Oh and just saw this post and had to laugh. you chime in attack me personally and call me names as you redefine me based on your bias and assumptions and you think I am upset because of some past disagreement that you claim exists but I honestly don't remember? LOL

Hate to burst your self absorption bubble but I couldn't have cared less about you until you chimed in to attack me personally. lol