White fans, black players

[MaryL]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

 

[Asclepias]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

Their protesting has nothing to do with their job. They aren't working when the racist anthem is being played.

 

[Correll]

My point about the fact that the white fans having no problem seeing majority black teams as "them", as strong evidence against the claim that White America is racist,

is pretty much the opposite of trolling.


Try to be less dishonest.

The only time they want to see blacks win is when hes, running jumping or has a ball. And youre trolling. Period

YOu have done nothing to support either of your claims.


My point about the fact that the white fans having no problem seeing majority black teams as "them", as strong evidence against the claim that White America is racist,

is pretty much the opposite of trolling.


Try to be less dishonest.

I don't have to back up a fact. You can find them yourself. Hell you aren't even questioning it's validity. So as far as I can tell you just want me to post links as an exercise in linking.

Michael Vick cheered for pitbulls. Does that mean he loves dogs? Romans cheered Gladiators does that mean all of them loved or saw themselves as indentured servants?

Stop trolling

I doubt that Vick identified with his dogs the way I see Football Fans identify with their teams.


And yes, you do have to back up a fact, if it is challenged.


Or stop standing by it.


My point about the fact that the white fans having no problem seeing majority black teams as "them", as strong evidence against the claim that White America is racist,

You arent challenging any facts of mine, youre just begging for links to information you arent questioning. Also, if you want something done right do it yourself. Because I wont do it for you doesnt take away from a fact being a fact.

You dont know how Vick saw his dogs. Or how Romans saw their Galdiators...or how fans see NFL players.

I do know how NFL fans see the players. They talk about it all the time.

The do not look at them like dogs to be wasted and tortured but like heroes to be celebrated and revered.


I'm done with asking you to support your claims. You've made it clear that you don't roll that way.


Most lefties will pretend to support their claims, or at least claim that they did, generally by making strong assertions and insulting people.


YOu are more honest than that, and I give you credit for that.


You just won't engage in real debate.


Good for you.


relatively speaking.


So,


My point about the fact that the white fans having no problem seeing majority black teams as "them", as strong evidence against the claim that White America is racist,

 

[Correll]

Or whites just don't care.

Evidence pretty much kills that option. If they didnt care they wouldnt call players racist names and demand them to be politically vanilla.

No, evidence supports that the fans don't like their players being unpatriotic anti-American shit heads.

Then those "fans" are not patriotic themselves if they begrudge "their players" their right to peacefully protest. If they perform on gameday that should be all that matters. They are not the ones putting in the work to develop the talent required to enfage in a professional sport, so an athletes personal views should be off limits.

There is nothing about being a fan, that requires a fan to ignore the fact that the player(s) are insulting them.


Nor does being patriotic require that one support all "peaceful protests".


Supporting the Right to protest, does not mean that one has to embrace all peaceful protesters.


NOt if the peaceful protester is an anti-American ass.

Or whites just don't care.

Evidence pretty much kills that option. If they didnt care they wouldnt call players racist names and demand them to be politically vanilla.

No, evidence supports that the fans don't like their players being unpatriotic anti-American shit heads.

Then those "fans" are not patriotic themselves if they begrudge "their players" their right to peacefully protest. If they perform on gameday that should be all that matters. They are not the ones putting in the work to develop the talent required to enfage in a professional sport, so an athletes personal views should be off limits.

There is nothing about being a fan, that requires a fan to ignore the fact that the player(s) are insulting them.


Nor does being patriotic require that one support all "peaceful protests".


Supporting the Right to protest, does not mean that one has to embrace all peaceful protesters.


NOt if the peaceful protester is an anti-American ass.

Protesting by not standing for the anthem does not translate to someone being "Anti American".

They are Americans that refuse to show respect to America or loyalty to their fellow Americans, because they consider their nation and their fellow citizens "oppressors".

That's being against America. So, anti-American is certainly supported.


Try to be less dishonest.


/QUOTE]
There have been former armed forces personnel who have gone on record and stated that one of the freedoms of being an American is having the right to stand or to choose not to.[/QUOTE]


Sure they have the right, since their piece of shit employers have sided with them. No one is saying otherwise. THis point was never raised and not contention.


So, stop wasting my time acting like it is.

Furthermore, the players are American citizens, therefore they are free to peacefully protest and still perform their assigned job duties as players.

Agreed. Again. And of course.


I understand why you spend so much time trying make this issue about something it is not.


Because it is hard to sell Anti-Americanism to Americans.

If a so called fan feels "insulted", too bad, they also have the freedom to not attend or watch NFL games.....but they ARE NOT free to dictate to the players how they should conduct their protest.

Any and all real Americans ARE insulted by the players insulting the Nation and Americans.


And those Americans should treat the players and the league that supports their anti-Americanism with the same contempt that the players feel for them.


And if the Fans do walk away, they will in effect be dictating to the league and the players to stop being fucking dicks, because once the league loses enough money, they will learn fast that the fans are their bosses.

 

[Correll]

I live in a city with a high level of sports fans.


I've not seen anything like what you describe.


Veteran players who stick around in the city, are still seen and respected of both races, to the point that even I pick up on it.


I recall seeing a famous defensive player in the hallway at a hospital, years after he retired. I told my friends, they were interested to hear about it.


I recall another friend of mine when looking for an address at one point. He was looking at a nice house and some guy on the street told him that that was the house of a famous retired black football player.


Former players still enjoy high status.

Not sure what city you speak of. But I live on the west coast and have some personal friends who I played on the same high school and college and several of the went on to play professionally as well as coach. Two of my old coaches played professionally as well. They tell an entirely different story than yours.

I'm sure that they are not treated like they WERE when they were actively playing, but that is not racism.


I live in a Rust Belt city.

No. Much of what they experienced that shaped their perceptions regarding the dynamic between white fams and black athletes happened during their playing days.

Sure, when they were treated like gods.

Coming down from THAT, is not being a second class citizen.

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

 

[Correll]

Never been a big sports fan, Why do we pay athletes so much? They can do something,like that makes them worth over a million dollars? I have some mad skills too.

Me either.


But they entertain millions, so more power to them.


I just hope they save and invest while they are still playing.

 

[katsteve2012]

Not sure what city you speak of. But I live on the west coast and have some personal friends who I played on the same high school and college and several of the went on to play professionally as well as coach. Two of my old coaches played professionally as well. They tell an entirely different story than yours.

I'm sure that they are not treated like they WERE when they were actively playing, but that is not racism.


I live in a Rust Belt city.

No. Much of what they experienced that shaped their perceptions regarding the dynamic between white fams and black athletes happened during their playing days.

Sure, when they were treated like gods.

Coming down from THAT, is not being a second class citizen.

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that you have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

 

[jillian]

So, a common claim is that America is a terribly racist society.


Yet, for my entire life, white footballs fans have happily identified and celebrated majority black football teams.


Question: WHy is this not seen as evidence of the LACK of racism in White America?


Black players in professional American football - Wikipedia



"At the start of the 2014 season, NFL surveys revealed that the league was approximately 68% African-American[35] and about 28% white, with the remaining 4% comprising Asian/Pacific Islander, non-white Hispanics, and those preferring a Mixed Race category.[36]"

These statistics are in contrast to the general population of the United States, which is about 28% non-white (white including Hispanic whites) although among the demographic that plays in the NFL (men approximately 21 to 35 years of age), the proportion of the American population that is non-white is somewhat greater.

bigoted white people always liked minstrel shows.

 

[Correll]

I'm sure that they are not treated like they WERE when they were actively playing, but that is not racism.


I live in a Rust Belt city.

No. Much of what they experienced that shaped their perceptions regarding the dynamic between white fams and black athletes happened during their playing days.

Sure, when they were treated like gods.

Coming down from THAT, is not being a second class citizen.

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that ypu have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

If they don't realize how special their treatment is, yes, spoiled.

 

[katsteve2012]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

 

[Correll]

So, a common claim is that America is a terribly racist society.


Yet, for my entire life, white footballs fans have happily identified and celebrated majority black football teams.


Question: WHy is this not seen as evidence of the LACK of racism in White America?


Black players in professional American football - Wikipedia



"At the start of the 2014 season, NFL surveys revealed that the league was approximately 68% African-American[35] and about 28% white, with the remaining 4% comprising Asian/Pacific Islander, non-white Hispanics, and those preferring a Mixed Race category.[36]"

These statistics are in contrast to the general population of the United States, which is about 28% non-white (white including Hispanic whites) although among the demographic that plays in the NFL (men approximately 21 to 35 years of age), the proportion of the American population that is non-white is somewhat greater.

bigoted white people always liked minstrel shows.

People don't identify with "minstrels". THey do with spectator sports teams.


How many times have you heard a professional sports team referred to, not by their name, but AS the city they represent?

 

[Correll]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

And if their form of protest is to show disrespect and disloyalty to America and Americans, then Americans should show that same disrespect BACK.

 

[MaryL]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

Yep and we have evey right to protest by not watching NFL games, too. Bye bye.

 

[katsteve2012]

No. Much of what they experienced that shaped their perceptions regarding the dynamic between white fams and black athletes happened during their playing days.

Sure, when they were treated like gods.

Coming down from THAT, is not being a second class citizen.

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that ypu have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

If they don't realize how special their treatment is, yes, spoiled.

If you live in a rust belt area isolated from urban life and where there is not much to do and nowhere to go then maybe the inahabitants of your area do idolize the teams that athletes represent.

I can tell you that on the west coast, that they are people who just happen to be athletes.

 

[Correll]

Sure, when they were treated like gods.

Coming down from THAT, is not being a second class citizen.

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that ypu have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

If they don't realize how special their treatment is, yes, spoiled.

If you live in a rust belt area isolated from urban life and where there is not much to do and nowhere to go then maybe the inahabitants of your area do idolize the teams that athletes represent.

I can tell you that on the west coast, that they are people who just happen to be athletes.

I live IN a rust belt city and there is plenty to do.


The Rust Belt is a very large area, but I've never seen anything to indicate that sports fandom is limited just to US, or very much greater here than else where.

 

[katsteve2012]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

Yep and we have evey right to protest by not watching NFL games, too. Bye bye.

Indeed you do. And Im certain that no players will lose any sleep over the people who choose to stay away.

Every NFL game that I have watched this season has stadiums that are packed.

 

[MaryL]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

Yep and we have evey right to protest by not watching NFL games, too. Bye bye.

Indeed you do. And Im certain that no players will lose any sleep over the people who choose to stay away.

Every NFL game that I have watched this season has stadiums that are packed.

Packed with what? The rest of us yawn, we aren't watching. We say bye bye.

 

[katsteve2012]

I dont know one current or former black professional athlete who has felt he was treated like a god. Do you know any black professional athletes?

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that ypu have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

If they don't realize how special their treatment is, yes, spoiled.

If you live in a rust belt area isolated from urban life and where there is not much to do and nowhere to go then maybe the inahabitants of your area do idolize the teams that athletes represent.

I can tell you that on the west coast, that they are people who just happen to be athletes.

I live IN a rust belt city and there is plenty to do.


The Rust Belt is a very large area, but I've never seen anything to indicate that sports fandom is limited just to US, or very much greater here than else where.

We are saying two different things. I am speaking about the perceptions of athletes that I know personally, and you are saying that because there are so many white fans that it is a testament to a decline in racism. All that means is that someone can be a racist and still like a certain sport.

 

[katsteve2012]

Athletes are paid to play, not protest. If you or they have a problem with that, you misunderstand and they have the wrong job. Plain purely and simply.

They have the right and freedom to protest as long as they perform their job responsibilities.

The are not trained animals....even though more than just a few in this forum likely have that sentiment.

Yep and we have evey right to protest by not watching NFL games, too. Bye bye.

Indeed you do. And Im certain that no players will lose any sleep over the people who choose to stay away.

Every NFL game that I have watched this season has stadiums that are packed.

Packed with what? The rest of us yawn, we aren't watching. We say bye bye.

You've said it already.....happy trails.

 

[Correll]

I know how the city I live in and the people in it, feel about their sports teams.


If the players are too spoiled to know how sweet they have it, that's their loss.

Spoiled? I am getting the impression that ypu have no idea what kind of work and conditioning required to excel in a sport at a professional level

If they don't realize how special their treatment is, yes, spoiled.

If you live in a rust belt area isolated from urban life and where there is not much to do and nowhere to go then maybe the inahabitants of your area do idolize the teams that athletes represent.

I can tell you that on the west coast, that they are people who just happen to be athletes.

I live IN a rust belt city and there is plenty to do.


The Rust Belt is a very large area, but I've never seen anything to indicate that sports fandom is limited just to US, or very much greater here than else where.

We are saying two different things. I am speaking about the perceptions of athletes that I know personally, and you are saying that because there are so many white fans that it is a testament to a decline in racism. All that means is that someone can be a racist and still like a certain sport.

Just seems a little odd.


People who are looking for it, find "evidence" of racism in the way a republican parts his hair,


but scores of millions of working class whites idolizing majority black sports teams...


Nothing.



There ARE options. Hockey is vastly majority white. for one.



If all the black faces in football was disturbing any significant portion of the fans, you would expect to see such alternatives coming on strong.


Instead, nothing.