Which religious belief system will lower my tax bill the most?

[sealybobo]

This is why it is a strange pairing Christians and Capitalism because capitalism doesn't want to feed the hungry or cure the sick. Comes with a cost.

Actually the capitalism religionists believe if capitalism is left entirely unregulated, magically all of the disabled and sick will be taken care of by charity - and anyone who it doesn't take care, by definition - deserves what they get.

Aren't you overdue for a barn raising in Pennsylvania?


I believe in a happy medium. Unlike Democrats, I don't believe in making everyone a government dependent. I believe only those who are truly in need through no fault of their own should be a government dependent, and should not live in fear of their survival, ever.

Unlike Republicans, I don't believe all poor people are blood sucking leeches, or (schizophrenically) that there are no poor people in America.

A hardcore Libertarian believes private charities would carry the full load of the truly needy. But as one who has actually created and operated two faith-based charities, and who is familiar with American history, I know that would simply never happen.

I do believe, however, private charity can and should be the main provider for the truly needy.

How do you discuss with a liar or fool? You are a moderate yet you think democrats believe in making every dependent on government? I'd hate to see what you think an extreme right winger sounds like. In other words you don't sound fair or balanced at all if that is what you think.

And your libertarian ways have never worked anywhere before ever in the history of the world. When Bush pushed your theories and it failed you guys said he didn't go far enough. That makes you libertarians radical and irrational and quite honestly anarchists. We would have to let the whole system crash and it'd be survival of the fittest and many of you middle class libertards would come crawling back to Uncle Sam and we'd have to take care of you, which is why we have things like SS and medicare.

And no one wants to give your experiment a try. Ron Paul and Paul Ryan will never be POTUS. Plus you must realize that the Libertarian party is for discouraged conservatives who have been let down by the GOP. In other words they are only there so you don't vote for the party that you should be voting for in the first place. I would love to know your background and why you are so angry at government. Either you are a greedy rich or an ignorant poor/middle class person who doesn't understand the value of government that works for we the people instead of being corrupted by the very corporation you trust more than government. Companies like GM who put a bad product out knowing it could kill and it did. And no one goes to jail in your fairy tale world. Let the market decide. You guys are worse than Republicans.

Give you a great example and you show me where your way has worked better. The entire population of metro Detroit thrived for 70 years here in the union state of Michigan. Shareholders made profits, ceo's, vp's, even the labor made $17.50 wages (in today's dollars). Their insurance was dirty cheap and great. They got profit sharing. Other companies popped up to supply the big 3. Those employees were paid good otherwise they might unionize. Unions brought everyones wages up and the middle class boomed for 70 years. Between pensions, ss and medicare, an entire state boomed for 70 years.

Show me a Libertarian society that doesn't produce a small upper class, small merchantile class and a huge working poor class please!!!

Unions/Democrats/Liberals/Progressives made this country great. And then Reagan and Bush and the GOP sent our jobs overseas and started hiring illegals to do jobs Americans would do and they gave the rich huge tax breaks while also fighting 2 wars. They rigged the system so companies that owed pensions could go bankrupt and renig on pensions and start all over again.

And now you guys say "are we better off now under Obama"? Hell no because the GOP are obstructing him from undoing everything the GOP did under Bush's watch.

And I didn't even bring up how they deregulated the banks, wallstreet and mortgage industries ON PURPOSE and probably purposely caused the crash of 2007. They sure did clean up huh?

 

[sealybobo]

Based on available evidence, it looks like being a Black Democrat will get rid of your tax bill the quickest of anything...and will get you a load of free stuff from people who do pay taxes, to boot.

Now, play the Race Card, but, the fact is...after 50 years of the Great Society and the War on Poverty...its still true.

Isn't it funny poor southerners vote GOP over god, gays, guns and racism and the fact is they take in more federal aid than they pay in federal taxes. More so than blue states.

Delaware residents, who voted overwhelmingly for President Barack Obama in 2012, get 50 cents in federal funding for every $1 in federal income taxes they pay.

Mississippi — 55.5% for Mitt Romney — cashes in with $3.07 in federal funding for every dollar paid in income taxes.

Red Red Red Necks

---------------------------------------------------------------

Mississippi has the largest percentage of Black population in the nation, and that is where most of the Federal money goes. But, Blacks in the South are making progress. A Black middle class has formed and is thriving. Plenty of Blacks in the South have escaped poverty.

It is in the rotting cities of the North that they are forever trapped---by various Democratic Keep-Them-Dependent strategies---starting with Teachers Unions (all Democrats) which keep them illiterate.

Do they vote? Because it says 56% voted for Romney. I thought 100% of blacks voted for Obama?

Probably like here in Michigan they make blacks wait 4 hours to vote and whites only 20 minutes.

 

[sealybobo]

sealybobo, one of the selling points in my pitch to donors was that when you donate money to a large national organization, you have no idea where you money goes. Our charity, on the other hand, was local and we reported down to the last penny where our donors' money went. Medical bills, rent, food, utility bills, cancer treatments, wheelchairs, etc. This was a huge selling point, and our donors were never displeased with our operation.

We also made it a point of pride that anyone was welcome to come and open our books and examine them. And we meant anyone in the local area, whether they were a donor or not.

We were immensely successful beyond my wildest dreams because we guarded our integrity to the extremes, and we did very thorough due diligence to ensure those we were helping were in dire straits through no fault of their own.

You are badly jaundiced, dude.

Sure I'm pessimist but I'm also right. A lot of foundations are bullshit and you know it. Nice to hear yours is good. I wish more were like it.

Here is another thing. The GOP cut how much they give to people on foodstamps just as the cost of food went up. Even if your charities were able to help now that things are getting back to normal but in 2008 charity didn't do a very good job. Food Banks were empty.

Maybe charities/churches need to broadcast where they are. If I was hungry, I wouldn't even know where to go honestly. I don't know of a church in my area that feeds the poor or a charity where I could go get a free meal. I'm sure there are places in Detroit but I don't live in Detroit. And Detroit's a big place. I should be seeing signs saying "free meal if you are hungry or free clothes if you need something".

I do see Thift Shops but you have to pay for those clothes.

Anyways, government picks up where your charities fail. If you want less government intervention, start solving the homeless/hunger problem we have right here in America.

I say we need more government intervention not less if this is true. What is your charity doing for all these people? U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that 57,849 veterans are homeless on any given night.

 

[g5000]

How do you discuss with a liar or fool? You are a moderate yet you think democrats believe in making every dependent on government?

Do you claim any credits, exemptions, or deductions on your income taxes? Then you are a government dependent.

Do you support ObamaCare? Then you are dependent on government.

The list of government dependencies, and the number of people who use them, is ever growing.

Have you ever heard of a government dependency program that got smaller over time? How about one that ended?

Nope. We just keep adding more and more and more and more.

Give you a great example and you show me where your way has worked better. The entire population of metro Detroit thrived for 70 years here in the union state of Michigan. Shareholders made profits, ceo's, vp's, even the labor made $17.50 wages (in today's dollars). Their insurance was dirty cheap and great. They got profit sharing. Other companies popped up to supply the big 3. Those employees were paid good otherwise they might unionize. Unions brought everyones wages up and the middle class boomed for 70 years. Between pensions, ss and medicare, an entire state boomed for 70 years.

How is Detroit doing these days? How much more dependent on government has Detroit become over the years?


Detroit boomed because it had an industry at the cutting edge of innovation and technology. Now that industry is old and low tech in relative terms. They did not maintain their edge, and it would not surprise me if no cars are made in America in ten years.

Other countries' infrastructure have developed to the point they can make cars now. We need to maintain our edge and stay ahead of the curve or suffer the consequences on a national scale that Detroit is now suffering.

 

[g5000]

sealybobo, one of the selling points in my pitch to donors was that when you donate money to a large national organization, you have no idea where you money goes. Our charity, on the other hand, was local and we reported down to the last penny where our donors' money went. Medical bills, rent, food, utility bills, cancer treatments, wheelchairs, etc. This was a huge selling point, and our donors were never displeased with our operation.

We also made it a point of pride that anyone was welcome to come and open our books and examine them. And we meant anyone in the local area, whether they were a donor or not.

We were immensely successful beyond my wildest dreams because we guarded our integrity to the extremes, and we did very thorough due diligence to ensure those we were helping were in dire straits through no fault of their own.

You are badly jaundiced, dude.

Sure I'm pessimist but I'm also right. A lot of foundations are bullshit and you know it. Nice to hear yours is good. I wish more were like it.

Here is another thing. The GOP cut how much they give to people on foodstamps just as the cost of food went up. Even if your charities were able to help now that things are getting back to normal but in 2008 charity didn't do a very good job. Food Banks were empty.

Maybe charities/churches need to broadcast where they are. If I was hungry, I wouldn't even know where to go honestly. I don't know of a church in my area that feeds the poor or a charity where I could go get a free meal. I'm sure there are places in Detroit but I don't live in Detroit. And Detroit's a big place. I should be seeing signs saying "free meal if you are hungry or free clothes if you need something".

I do see Thift Shops but you have to pay for those clothes.

Anyways, government picks up where your charities fail. If you want less government intervention, start solving the homeless/hunger problem we have right here in America.

I say we need more government intervention not less if this is true. What is your charity doing for all these people? U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that 57,849 veterans are homeless on any given night.

You should go back and re-read some of my posts. I said I believe in a happy medium. I plainly said I do not subscribe to the hardcore Libertarian belief that private charity could support all of the truly needy.

As for churches in your area, I absolutely guarantee you every one of them is feeding the poor.

Just ask them.

 

[sealybobo]

How do you discuss with a liar or fool? You are a moderate yet you think democrats believe in making every dependent on government?

Do you claim any credits, exemptions, or deductions on your income taxes? Then you are a government dependent.

Do you support ObamaCare? Then you are dependent on government.

The list of government dependencies, and the number of people who use them, is ever growing.

Have you ever heard of a government dependency program that got smaller over time? How about one that ended?

Nope. We just keep adding more and more and more and more.

Give you a great example and you show me where your way has worked better. The entire population of metro Detroit thrived for 70 years here in the union state of Michigan. Shareholders made profits, ceo's, vp's, even the labor made $17.50 wages (in today's dollars). Their insurance was dirty cheap and great. They got profit sharing. Other companies popped up to supply the big 3. Those employees were paid good otherwise they might unionize. Unions brought everyones wages up and the middle class boomed for 70 years. Between pensions, ss and medicare, an entire state boomed for 70 years.

How is Detroit doing these days? How much more dependent on government has Detroit become over the years?

Detroit boomed because it had an industry at the cutting edge of innovation and technology. Now that industry is old and low tech in relative terms. They did not maintain their edge, and it would not surprise me if no cars are made in America in ten years.

Other countries' infrastructure have developed to the point they can make cars now. We need to maintain our edge and stay ahead of the curve or suffer the consequences on a national scale that Detroit is now suffering.

People in other countries laugh at American's like you. They pay high taxes but get a lot from their taxes and they also make a lot, even the middle class workers. The rich pay their fair share. You are either rich or a fool because you are arguing for them to pay less which means you pay more.

I will never agree with your libertarian less government ways. Sure we can cut a lot of government waste but the corrupt government we have now isn't going to cut anything that matters. They are just going to cut services that they provide the masses and then cut taxes for the rich. If you are not rich, you're a god damn fool.

Oh, and those jobs back 50 years ago weren't high tech then either. Just starting out at a steal mill shoveling coal Carl made $17.50 an hour. Why did they pay so much? Because Carl was in a union.

You libertarians forget why FDR did the New Deal. You forget your policies caused the great depression and recession.

I have had this go back and forth with plenty of libertarians for plenty of years. We are never going to agree. I agree/understand half the shit you say is right but that doesn't make me forget half of what you think/say/believe is wrong.

Quite honestly, in your world exactly what is going on after Bush is what would continue to occur. The rich would get richer, take over our government, and the middle class becomes the working poor. And you all say we need to go a little bit harder to the right next time. Anarchists! Forget it. Have Texas secede and show us how it works. Or go take over Afganistan or Iraq and show up how the Corporations do it. Or will the masses you pay poverty wages to blow you up when you sleep? That's why they will live in gated communities.

 

[peach174]

Which religious belief system will lower my tax bill the most?

I intend to convert to whichever is economically the most profitable.

I would think most business owners would do the same.

Getting the Feds to adhere to the Constitution written by the Christians.
That means voting out everyone who violates it.
Be it Left, Right or in the middle.