Zone1 Which land did GOD promise to Abraham?

[Zebra]

was it the present Israel?

 

[Zebra]

and does the idea of a promised land has a bearing on the present conflict?

 

[Clyde 154]

was it the present Israel?

No. God fulfilled all the land promises before the birth of Jesus Christ. The land promise was fulfilled when God brought the peoples (Israel) out of bondage and gave them the land of Canaan in the days of Joshua.

God "remembered" His promise to father Abraham. "I (God) established my covenant with them (Israel...descendants of Abraham) to give them the land of Canaan.....I (God) heard the people of Israel and their moaning, whom the Egyptians held them captive..........I HAVE REMEMBERED MY COVENANT (with Abraham)." -- Exodus 6:4-8

God told the people to enter Canaan and take possession of the land (Deut. 1:6-8). They enter and fulfill the promise of land. "So Joshua took the whole land, according to all the Lord had spoken to Moses (Joshua: 11:23). God declared All HIS PROMISES to the ancestors were fulfilled. "Thus, the Lord gave to Israel ALL THE LAND HE SWORE TO THEIR FATHER (the lineage of Abraham).............Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed......ALL CAME TO PASS." -- Joshua 21:43-45

God made other promises to the lineage of Abraham and Israel. And these promises were to the effect of what would happen if Israel ever failed to walk in total agreement the covenants made between God and Israel.

Negative promise #1: God promised to destroy Israel when it disobeyed. (Lev. 26:27-39. Negative promise #2: The peoples would be driven from the land of promise when any future generations disobeyed the covenant (Deut. 4:25-28) Negative promise #3: Israel would cease being a nation (sound familiar when Israel vanished from the global map in 70AD? (Deut. 8:19-20). Negative promise......the last: Like a broken potters vessel, Israel would be broken and NEVER MADE WHOLE AGAIN (Jer. 19:7-13).

What about the promise of owning the land for "eternity"? The Hebrew word used for this promise is the same word, when translated.......in dealing with the legal affairs of men, simply means as long as that person lives......that is the eternity of the contract. Israel died and stopped being a nation when God allowed Rome to destroy the nation of Biblical Israel.

Just look at the nation calling itself Israel. No king appointed by God. No Royal Priesthood to act as law God's law givers on earth........modern Israel is controlled today by elected politicians. The land was not given to Israel by God.........the land was granted by a UN Resolution #181. There is no Temple.....and no promise of a temple, as Israel will never own the land it lost in 70AD. There are no tribal IDs today. No burnt sacrifices as per the Royal Priesthoods instructions. Modern Israel is the result of attempting to piece Israel back together again without authorization from God......just like a puzzle with missing pieces.......the picture will never be complete again.

Is there HOPE for the peoples Israel......that call themselves JEWS? Of course......the same conditions apply to the Jews as to all the other people on earth. All they need do is open their blinded eyes. Today: There is neither Jew nor Gentile........both are descendants of father Abraham and heirs to the remaining promise.......to make God's people grow like the number of stars in the heavens........a number that is to vast to accurately count. (Gal. 3:27-29) All any person on earth need do is "PUT ON CHRIST"......because there is only one way to eternal fellowship with the God of Creation. "I am the way, the truth, the life.........no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." -- John 14:6

 

[my2¢]

It's my recall the promise was for the land between the Euphrates River and Mediterranean Sea.

 

[Zebra]

No. God fulfilled all the land promises before the birth of Jesus Christ. The land promise was fulfilled when God brought the peoples (Israel) out of bondage and gave them the land of Canaan in the days of Joshua.

God "remembered" His promise to father Abraham. "I (God) established my covenant with them (Israel...descendants of Abraham) to give them the land of Canaan.....I (God) heard the people of Israel and their moaning, whom the Egyptians held them captive..........I HAVE REMEMBERED MY COVENANT (with Abraham)." -- Exodus 6:4-8

God told the people to enter Canaan and take possession of the land (Deut. 1:6-8). They enter and fulfill the promise of land. "So Joshua took the whole land, according to all the Lord had spoken to Moses (Joshua: 11:23). God declared All HIS PROMISES to the ancestors were fulfilled. "Thus, the Lord gave to Israel ALL THE LAND HE SWORE TO THEIR FATHER (the lineage of Abraham).............Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed......ALL CAME TO PASS." -- Joshua 21:43-45

God made other promises to the lineage of Abraham and Israel. And these promises were to the effect of what would happen if Israel ever failed to walk in total agreement the covenants made between God and Israel.

Negative promise #1: God promised to destroy Israel when it disobeyed. (Lev. 26:27-39. Negative promise #2: The peoples would be driven from the land of promise when any future generations disobeyed the covenant (Deut. 4:25-28) Negative promise #3: Israel would cease being a nation (sound familiar when Israel vanished from the global map in 70AD? (Deut. 8:19-20). Negative promise......the last: Like a broken potters vessel, Israel would be broken and NEVER MADE WHOLE AGAIN (Jer. 19:7-13).

What about the promise of owning the land for "eternity"? The Hebrew word used for this promise is the same word, when translated.......in dealing with the legal affairs of men, simply means as long as that person lives......that is the eternity of the contract. Israel died and stopped being a nation when God allowed Rome to destroy the nation of Biblical Israel.

Just look at the nation calling itself Israel. No king appointed by God. No Royal Priesthood to act as law God's law givers on earth........modern Israel is controlled today by elected politicians. The land was not given to Israel by God.........the land was granted by a UN Resolution #181. There is no Temple.....and no promise of a temple, as Israel will never own the land it lost in 70AD. There are no tribal IDs today. No burnt sacrifices as per the Royal Priesthoods instructions. Modern Israel is the result of attempting to piece Israel back together again without authorization from God......just like a puzzle with missing pieces.......the picture will never be complete again.

Is there HOPE for the peoples Israel......that call themselves JEWS? Of course......the same conditions apply to the Jews as to all the other people on earth. All they need do is open their blinded eyes. Today: There is neither Jew nor Gentile........both are descendants of father Abraham and heirs to the remaining promise.......to make God's people grow like the number of stars in the heavens........a number that is to vast to accurately count. (Gal. 3:27-29) All any person on earth need do is "PUT ON CHRIST"......because there is only one way to eternal fellowship with the God of Creation. "I am the way, the truth, the life.........no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." -- John 14:6

thanks for all this info

 

[Zebra]

It's my recall the promise was for the land between the Euphrates River and Mediterranean Sea.

where does it say so?

 

[Clyde 154]

It's my recall the promise was for the land between the Euphrates River and Mediterranean Sea.

So you are declaring that God did not give the entire land of promise to Israel? (Genesis 15:18-21)

Answer from the Bible. When Moses outlined the promised land......it directly corresponded with the GREATER LAND PROMISE. (Numbers 34:5-12) You must realize one historical fact, the river of Egypt is not THE NILE RIVER, its a wadi (Joshua 15:4)....a channel that identifies Biblical Israel's northern border. The entrance to Hamath is by the Euphrates River (1 Chron. 18:3).

Do you assume that Joshua lied when he declared, "God gave them ALL THE LAND PROMISED to the fathers (Abraham's lineage)"? -- Joshua 21:43-45

 

[Clyde 154]

Discussion was great.........I must run, I have work to look after before it gets to late. Later

 

[BreezeWood]

was it the present Israel?

that is judaism's impersonation of the heavens that claim land would be given to anyone ... and anyone who would believe such a thought are no better than the jews.

are sparrows given the sky, whales the ocean - religious corruption is so simple as those that believe anything and those are a dime a dozen.

 

[Zebra]

Zebra

and does the idea of a promised land has a bearing on the present conflict?

well ….. has it?

 

[my2¢]

So you are declaring that God did not give the entire land of promise to Israel? (Genesis 15:18-21)

Do you assume that Joshua lied when he declared, "God gave them ALL THE LAND PROMISED to the fathers (Abraham's lineage)"? -- Joshua 21:43-45

I believe it wasn't the case of God not giving the entire land nor Joshua being a liar. Rather I see it as the case of the exiles refusing to take it, resulting in that whole wandering in the wilderness for 40 years until almost all died off and not entering the promise land. Throughout the Old Testament there are numerous consequences suffered by God's chosen people for not living up to their end of the covenant.

 

[Zebra]

that is judaism's impersonation of the heavens that claim land would be given to anyone ... and anyone who would believe such a thought are no better than the jews.

are sparrows given the sky, whales the ocean - religious corruption is so simple as those that believe anything and those are a dime a dozen.

good question

 

[Red Front]

was it the present Israel?

The Arabs, including the Palestinians, are just as likely to be descendants of Abraham than the Jews. The God of the Bible, never promised Jews the Holy Land, on the basis of them simply being Jews. They had to keep the Torah. Is the secular Zionist State of Israel, a Torah observant government and society that recognizes God as their top authority? NO.

 

[Zebra]

The Arabs, including the Palestinians, are just as likely to be descendants of Abraham than the Jews. The God of the Bible, never promised Jews the Holy Land, on the basis of them simply being Jews. They had to keep the Torah. Is the secular Zionist State of Israel, a Torah observant government and society that recognizes God as their top authority? NO.

interesting!

so the arabs have the same right!

 

[Red Front]

interesting!

so the arabs have the same right!

The bottom line is that the Jews wrote the bible, so to cite the bible as proof that they own the land, is quite RICH to say the least.

 

[my2¢]

The Arabs, including the Palestinians, are just as likely to be descendants of Abraham than the Jews.

I've heard that briefly mentioned in the past but really never dug into it. You're reply piqued my interest and figured I'd take a minute to acquaint myself to that line of thought.

Muslims understand Islam to be the religion of Abraham. The biblical figure of Abraham is mentioned by name in the Qur’an 69 times—more than any other person except for Moses (137 times). Muslim interpreters of the Qur’an provide additional details linking the passages in the Qur’an to the stories of Abraham known from the Bible and from Jewish and Christian interpretation.

In the Qur’an, God calls upon people to “follow the religion of Abraham” (Qur’an 3:95). Abraham is the “model” of obedience to God (Qur’an 16:120) and the “friend of God,” and no one can be “better in religion” (Qur’an 4:125) than those who follow him.

Abraham and Islam - Bible Odyssey

Muslims understand Islam to be the religion of Abraham. The biblical figure of Abraham is mentioned by name in the Qur’an 69 times—more than

wwww.bibleodyssey.org

 

[Billo_Really]

was it the present Israel?

God carry's no weight in a court of law.

 

[Cougarbear]

was it the present Israel?

So, your question is really, does Israel today belong to the Jews today? Or, should they get out and let the Palestinians move on in. You think that would create peace in the world. It would not. Islam is the antithesis of Christianity/Judeo religion. The reason is, Allah and Elohim or Jehovah are not the same God. Sometimes I hear this but it isn't so. Ismael is not the founder of Islam. They also followed the God of Abraham out the gate. Eventually, they lost there way but it wasn't until Mohammed that Islam got its roots. Islam even accepts Jesus Christ as a teacher as well. But not God.

So, Abraham dwelt in the land of Canaan, Canaan was the grandson of Noah. So, there is no connection of Muslims today and Abraham. Of course, Abraham had Isaac and Isaac had Jacob who is Israel. All in the land of Canaan. Canaanites are not Muslims of today nor are they Palestinians. Palestinians are more Greek and Roman than Islamic. Most of the people took on Islam but that doesn't give them claim to the land because of Abraham. No, Israel was first there.

 

[Zebra]

So, your question is really, does Israel today belong to the Jews today? Or, should they get out and let the Palestinians move on in. You think that would create peace in the world. It would not. Islam is the antithesis of Christianity/Judeo religion. The reason is, Allah and Elohim or Jehovah are not the same God. Sometimes I hear this but it isn't so. Ismael is not the founder of Islam. They also followed the God of Abraham out the gate. Eventually, they lost there way but it wasn't until Mohammed that Islam got its roots. Islam even accepts Jesus Christ as a teacher as well. But not God.

So, Abraham dwelt in the land of Canaan, Canaan was the grandson of Noah. So, there is no connection of Muslims today and Abraham. Of course, Abraham had Isaac and Isaac had Jacob who is Israel. All in the land of Canaan. Canaanites are not Muslims of today nor are they Palestinians. Palestinians are more Greek and Roman than Islamic. Most of the people took on Islam but that doesn't give them claim to the land because of Abraham. No, Israel was first there.

i have asked a question

you have no idea what i am thinking!

 

[Cougarbear]

i have asked a question

you have no idea what i am thinking!

Ya but you know I’m right. Hope I was able to clear up some misconceptions you might have