Which Freedoms Lost?

[PoliticalChic]

Your misconception that you have only two choices is your problem...In fact, if it can be said that there are only two choices, and those "choices" are between statist party A and statist party B, then it's highly questionable as to whether you have any legitimate choice at all.

Some 98.6% of the vote went as follows, Dem-Repub:

Popular vote 69,456,897[1] 59,934,814[1]
Percentage 52.9%[1] 45.7%[1]
United States presidential election, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While technically you point is correct, one could be of the 1.4%, it is also an obfuscation.
If you don't care to make your distinction based on small differences,as is the way the system works,...don't vote.

I choose to make said distinctions in the hopes that more Americans make the same distinctinctions...i.e., November.


And, if you choose to throw a tantrum if you don't get your way, then you'd have to be a liberal.

I don't give a hoot in hell what anyone else does.

You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Republicans have been part of the progressive statist problem since at least Teddy Roosevelt.

1. You know, this is just not right of you: forcing me to defend the statist TR....

but (sigh)...he was correct in that the American economic system was, and is, based on free market capitalism and free enterprise.

The problem at that time was not a command and control totalist, statist government, but rather the extreme capitalism that produced Morgan, Carnegie and Rockefeller...

(don't bring up their later-life charity)

and the monopolies and trusts that stultified competition.

2. Reform legislation passed during Roosevelt’s presidency was based not so much on the desire to break trusts up, he had initiated some forty suits, as to regulate them: more against wickedness than big business.
a. A successful antitrust suit against J. P. Morgan’s Northern Securities, which controlled the big western railroads.
b. In 1902 he threatened to intervene in the anthracite coal strike, forcing mine operators to accept arbitration.
c. Put an end to freight rebates by railroads.
d. The Hepburn Act strengthened the Interstate Commerce Commission, which authorized the government to set railroad rates.
e. In 1906, the Pure Food and Drug Act was passed (scandals in meatpacking industry).
f. The Employers’ Liability and Safety Appliance Laws limited employees hours…etc.
See James Chace, "1912"

3. Now here is where we run into problems: the reform agenda, and the evil that emanates from "The New Nationalism" speech...should have been sunsetted, once the necessary reforms were efficacious.
TR would have been remembered, by me at least, as a great man.
But no champion of regulated-capitalism has arisen to make great speeches to counter the rampaging progressivism, and its many offshoots.

(RR fought a differenct enemy)

So there...I defended statist TR...(forgive me for I have sinned...)

 

[NYcarbineer]

Freedom to assume risk.

At every turn the government determines what risks I cannot take.

A question, why is it you are unable to see these lost freedoms?

That increases your opportunities to take the risks involved in breaking the laws.

You should be thrilled.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The freedom to not give my money to a health insurance company if I don't want to.

Ok, then I want the freedom not to give my money to a defense contractor, or a private business building roads in Afghanistan or schools in Iraq.

 

[Full-Auto]

Freedom to assume risk.

At every turn the government determines what risks I cannot take.

A question, why is it you are unable to see these lost freedoms?

That increases your opportunities to take the risks involved in breaking the laws.

You should be thrilled.

My position is pretty straight forward. If the government doesnt have to follow the law, either do I. I just have to be less obvious about it.

 

[Bern80]

The freedom to not give my money to a health insurance company if I don't want to.

Ok, then I want the freedom not to give my money to a defense contractor, or a private business building roads in Afghanistan or schools in Iraq.

You aren't required to pay directly for any of those things. A better analogy would be government requiring you to purchase a tank with your own money.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The freedom to not give my money to a health insurance company if I don't want to.

Ok, then I want the freedom not to give my money to a defense contractor, or a private business building roads in Afghanistan or schools in Iraq.

You aren't required to pay directly for any of those things. A better analogy would be government requiring you to purchase a tank with your own money.

Are you daft? You think direct/indirect is a distinction?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I've heard much about Obama's Administration and our current Democrat-run Congress taking away our freedoms from the Tea Party and GOP candidates attempting to rally the TP as their base. I honestly don't know what freedoms we've lost, other than the freedom to pay women less for the same work, the freedom for health insurance companies to victimize their clients (and citizens will have to have health insurance which I think of as losing a freedom to be irresponsible toward your fellow human beings), and the freedom for credit card companies to bamboozle their card holders. I remember when the Patriot Act passed and some of our freedoms actually were lost.

I would like to ask those who believe we've lost freedoms to explain which freedoms we've lost since the end of the last administration - in other words, what freedoms have we lost since the Obama administration took over. This isn't a challenge, I honestly want to understand the ever-growing point of view on this subject.

And, please, let's keep it civil.

I have 2 from the health care bill.

I have lost the freedom to choose not to buy health insurance from a private company.

I have lost the liberty to decide which level of health coverage I would like to pay for.



I get the growing feeling that his administration and many of the progressives in government want to take away my liberty to make other personal choices too. For example Boston wants to ban sugared drinks. Yes boston wants to take away my liberty of choice in beverages....whats next alcohol (oh yeah that doesn't work). Medical Daily: Boston may ban sugary drinks

What about the farmer that got fined $5000.00 for giving away the vegetables he grew? Georgia farmer fined $5K for growing too many veggies | Food Freedom



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMBZDwf9dok]YouTube - Mad As Hell ...[/ame]

 

[Charles_Main]

I have lost the freedom to not be forced to buy a product from a private company or face a government fine, err I mean tax, I mean fine, I mean tax.

eh nm.

 

[saveliberty]

Freedom to assume risk.

At every turn the government determines what risks I cannot take.

A question, why is it you are unable to see these lost freedoms?

That increases your opportunities to take the risks involved in breaking the laws.

You should be thrilled.

The government has determined I should not take that risk either.

Because your stupid, I'll elaborate.

I am not allowed to risk:

an automobile accident.
medical care.
unemployment.
retirement.
future medical problems in retirement
making my own fuel.
building a structure on my property.

 

[Bern80]

Ok, then I want the freedom not to give my money to a defense contractor, or a private business building roads in Afghanistan or schools in Iraq.

You aren't required to pay directly for any of those things. A better analogy would be government requiring you to purchase a tank with your own money.

Are you daft? You think direct/indirect is a distinction?

Are you? Look at it from the other way around. How about we fund our military the way Obama has made us fund our individual health care costs. Instead of tax funded military the rule is everyone is REQUIRED to purchase military grade equipment for their own defense. Think there still isn't a difference?

 

[rightwinger]

I've heard much about Obama's Administration and our current Democrat-run Congress taking away our freedoms from the Tea Party and GOP candidates attempting to rally the TP as their base. I honestly don't know what freedoms we've lost, other than the freedom to pay women less for the same work, the freedom for health insurance companies to victimize their clients (and citizens will have to have health insurance which I think of as losing a freedom to be irresponsible toward your fellow human beings), and the freedom for credit card companies to bamboozle their card holders. I remember when the Patriot Act passed and some of our freedoms actually were lost.

I would like to ask those who believe we've lost freedoms to explain which freedoms we've lost since the end of the last administration - in other words, what freedoms have we lost since the Obama administration took over. This isn't a challenge, I honestly want to understand the ever-growing point of view on this subject.

And, please, let's keep it civil.

I have 2 from the health care bill.

I have lost the freedom to choose not to buy health insurance from a private company.

I have lost the liberty to decide which level of health coverage I would like to pay for.



I get the growing feeling that his administration and many of the progressives in government want to take away my liberty to make other personal choices too. For example Boston wants to ban sugared drinks. Yes boston wants to take away my liberty of choice in beverages....whats next alcohol (oh yeah that doesn't work). Medical Daily: Boston may ban sugary drinks

What about the farmer that got fined $5000.00 for giving away the vegetables he grew? Georgia farmer fined $5K for growing too many veggies | Food Freedom



]

I have 2 from the health care bill.

I have lost the freedom to choose not to buy health insurance from a private company.

I have lost the liberty to decide which level of health coverage I would like to pay for.

\
Do you currently have no insurace? If so, which Freedom have you lost?

How many Conservatives screaming about their loss of freedom are voluntarily without insurance? They just don't want other Americans to have it

 

[VaYank5150]

You aren't required to pay directly for any of those things. A better analogy would be government requiring you to purchase a tank with your own money.

Are you daft? You think direct/indirect is a distinction?

Are you? Look at it from the other way around. How about we fund our military the way Obama has made us fund our individual health care costs. Instead of tax funded military the rule is everyone is REQUIRED to purchase military grade equipment for their own defense. Think there still isn't a difference?

I haven't even been drinking tonight, and I STILL can't figure out WTF parallel you might have been trying to draw with this crap?

 

[Avorysuds]

The freedom to not give my money to a health insurance company if I don't want to.

Ok, then I want the freedom not to give my money to a defense contractor, or a private business building roads in Afghanistan or schools in Iraq.

This has to be the most retarded post in this thread...

NO fucking shit you don't want to give money to that kind of stuff, and you shouldn't have too... But here we are, spending and spending and spending... and if someone says they want it to stop you attack them, nice.

YOU are your worst problem. YOU give power to these people and then hate it when they use it in a way you don't like, so to get back at then you demand more power be given to the Government when "your guys" are in power...

 

[Bern80]

Are you daft? You think direct/indirect is a distinction?

Are you? Look at it from the other way around. How about we fund our military the way Obama has made us fund our individual health care costs. Instead of tax funded military the rule is everyone is REQUIRED to purchase military grade equipment for their own defense. Think there still isn't a difference?

I haven't even been drinking tonight, and I STILL can't figure out WTF parallel you might have been trying to draw with this crap?

NY is saying he doesn't see the difference in government taking your money and purchasing things deemed necessary and legal under the constitution and government requiring you to take your own money and purchase specific things.

He believes that my argument, that my freedom should not be abridged by requiring me to make private purchases, allows him to deny the government the taxes he owes if he doesn't like what they are being spent on.

So I suggested that if the two really are the same, if there is no real difference in government collecting taxes from you and buying things and government requiring you to purchase things for yourself, he should have no problem with government requiring him to purchases machine guns and tanks, etc. as opposed to the government funding the military via taxes. Clear now?

 

[Bern80]

How many Conservatives screaming about their loss of freedom are voluntarily without insurance? They just don't want other Americans to have it

Nope this is the dumbest post so far. We don't want people to have insurance? Get fucking real.

The freedom lost is not whether you have insurance or not idiot. The freedom lost is the CHOICE. How fucking hard is that to understand? that's what freedom is. The ability to choose.

 

[Urkie]

There shouldn't be a fucking choice when it comes to health insurance. It's one of the things every single person should have. The thought of not having it at any point is downright scary because accidents do happen you know.

Is that really hard to understand? Actually, it is for conservatives because a persons health should be something that you can put a price on...get real

 

[PoliticalChic]

There shouldn't be a fucking choice when it comes to health insurance. It's one of the things every single person should have. The thought of not having it at any point is downright scary because accidents do happen you know.

Is that really hard to understand? Actually, it is for conservatives because a persons health should be something that you can put a price on...get real

Welcome to the board.

What nation are you posting from, if I may end a sentence with a preposition...?

When will you visit us in America?

It seems that you are unaware of how friendly and humane our nation is...we have always had healthcare for all people in America, citizens, visitors, even illegal immigrants.

Glad to be able to enlighten you.

Visit soon!

 

[rightwinger]

How many Conservatives screaming about their loss of freedom are voluntarily without insurance? They just don't want other Americans to have it

Nope this is the dumbest post so far. We don't want people to have insurance? Get fucking real.

The freedom lost is not whether you have insurance or not idiot. The freedom lost is the CHOICE. How fucking hard is that to understand? that's what freedom is. The ability to choose.

Conservatives are pro-choice now?

You still have choice. The insurance industry made sure of that. You can choose from hundreds of policies available to you. You ask for a choice of having insurance or not. Yet how many of those screaming about losing this choice would ever consider going without insurance?

 

[Bern80]

There shouldn't be a fucking choice when it comes to health insurance. It's one of the things every single person should have. The thought of not having it at any point is downright scary because accidents do happen you know.

Maybe to you it is. Maybe to others it isn't. You are walking a slippery slope with your freedom if you think it's okay for government to tell you what you have to purchase.

Is that really hard to understand? Actually, it is for conservatives because a persons health should be something that you can put a price on...get real

There's gonna be a price on it anyway smart guy. Even under Obamacare it isn't free.

 

[Bern80]

Conservatives are pro-choice now?

Up until your choices effect the freedom of others, yes. that's me anyway. I'm not much of a conservative anymore.

You still have choice. The insurance industry made sure of that. You can choose from hundreds of policies available to you. You ask for a choice of having insurance or not. Yet how many of those screaming about losing this choice would ever consider going without insurance?

That's really the argument you want to use? It's okay to mandate things because pretty much everyone would choose to do it anyway? Fucking brilliant.

I find all of this very interesting that the OP asked a question about freedom lost, and when one is obviously pointed out where now there is less choice than there was before, none of you slimy libs have the integrity to say 'okay you're right, Obama did take away some freedom'. At the very least admit it and explain why in this instance removing freedom is okay.