CDZ Where have all the Liberals gone?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by jwoodie, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Up through the 1970's, I can remember having lively yet respectful debates with my liberal friends on a host of political issues. After that time, such debates became less and less frequent and more likely to end up in acrimonious responses to the same questions I had previously posed. Nowadays, it is extremely unlikely to find anyone of a liberal persuasion who is willing to discuss any political issue without immediately resorting to personal attacks.

    What happened to these people? My theory is that, essentially having won the debate over the size and scope of federal programs, they are now defensive about the lack of societal benefits these programs were supposed to achieve and are seeking to impose ever more radical "solutions" on a recalcitrant public in order to achieve them. In this vein, anyone with contrary views is considered a saboteur of their good intentions.

    What is you theory?
     
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  2. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    This is, in essence, my working theory as well. When attempting to defend the indefensible, attempt to disparage your opponent, and change the narrative to how dumb/intolerant/fringe/unfit to debate your adversary is.
    How about we try something new. Let's debate, in a civil manner, what has worked, and what has not. I find it highly unlikely this will happen anytime soon on a large scale though.
     
  3. Dan Stubbs
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    Dan Stubbs forget....Hell Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    They have ran out of lies, and false news and are smart enough lay low and regroup. They most of the time leave a few token Trolls in the area to take up the slack and thats what it looks like on most of the other boards
     
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  4. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher Platinum Member

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    My theory is a truth, you haven't offered a political issue for debate. Pick one and I promise not to call you names, I can't promise not to laugh.
     
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  5. Mac1958
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    Mac1958 Diamond Member

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    There are still real liberals out there - people who are decent, open-minded, tolerant and curious.

    Sadly they have essentially been rendered irrelevant - at least for now - by imposters, distortions, deviations. Narcissistic authoritarians who are the kind of people that REAL liberals used to fight AGAINST.

    They're entrenched, though, they're in complete control of the Democratic party, so they're not going anywhere soon.
    .
     
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  6. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Judging by the percentages in the last big election I'm going to say you are hanging out with older people instead of college girls.

    My remarks are kind of humorusly stated but I suspect it is a demographical thing.
     
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  7. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Let me clarify, I am finding it equally difficult to find "conservatives" who will engage in a civil debate with me on topics which we disagree on. So, it's not:
    It's really that we, as a people have, for whatever reason, lost the ability to have civil discourse. Part of the reason is all of the assumptions that people on ALL sides are increasingly guilty of. The fact that you have made such an assumption only serves to prove my point. I have been guilty of this as well, the difference is that I have started to attempt to effect a change, starting with myself. Are you able to truthfully say the same? I really don't care what your answer is, I just want people to start asking themselves what they are doing to solve the problems, as they see them, instead of whining and complaining about them.

    If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
     
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  8. oldsoul
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    oldsoul Gold Member

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    Not only the DNC, but the GOP as well.
     
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  9. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Then you are not looking very hard. Moral equivalency is not a legitimate argument when one party commits 90% of the transgressions.
     
  10. MACAULAY
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    MACAULAY Gold Member

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    This thread, even on the Polite Board, cannot get a start for the recriminations, the ground rules for a debate can't even be agreed on.

    I will try,

    We owe $20 trillion.

    I m a Conservative. I think that is a bad thing. I also think it was run up mostly by Liberal Democrats whose most reliable constituency are people who like Free Stuff.

    Usually, a Liberal comes back with: "Well, I'm tired of buying missiles".

    And, I say the the Preamble to the Constitution uses "provide for the common defense" First, because we have to be safe before we can "promote the general welfare"....and I also note that the society known as The Roman Empire...rose to an unmatched pinnacle (until The Great American Civilization) and stayed there for a very long time....following this philosophy:

    "The Romans kept peace by a constant preparation for war." Gibbon

    But as to the General Welfare, we start with people who really can't work, widows with young children the disabled, and as we grow in wealth, we continue to expand what we do for citizens down on their luck people....and the more we do....the more people there are who get down on their luck (its human nature)...and the less they are responsible for themselves...and the taxes start to get higher to pay for them...until the Working Man, like me, the Productive Citizens.....refuse to pay more....we have our own families to think about.

    And so taxes can't be raised any more...and the borrowing commences in earnest...and every time the Debt Ceiling needs to be raised, the Democrats are all for it...and they throw a Granny in a wheel chair off a cliff and the Republicans cave because they are cowards.

    This always gets me a "blame the Rich Argument" but that's just Marx coming out of his grave, yet again. There aren't enough rich to pay for all the Porch Sitters we have now in America and all the programs for the Porch Sitters....the Middle Class, the Productive People, like me.....have to carry the load.

    Lyndon Baines Johnson crated the first Welfare Queen in about 1965. Affirmative Action, The War on Poverty, The Great Society...destroyed the Black Family. And along the way it created new Welfare Queens like crazy. And why wouldn't it?

    A 16 year old unwed mother who has yet another illegitimate baby at 17 years old, sees herself as "getting a raise" financial-wise..and if she puts out four, no man ever to be found...she can qualify for enough benefits to make about what a whole lot of us Productive People make...without the stress of a boss and a job.

    What do you expect Human Nature to do? If a Subsistence is assured...a whole lot of people will just sit on the Porch. It has always been so.

    The productive people themselves get frustrated, give up...many become Porch Sitters too...a mother load rolls in illegally from Mexico...and now Marx is truly out of his grave.

    How Do you Liberals justify loading up our children and grand-children with 20 trillion in debt when you know its unsustainable?

    All great societies take care of their people who can't take care of themselves.

    Time do get those that DON'T off their Front Porch or out of this country.

    ___________________
     
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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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