WHERE are all the cries of judicial activism from the right?

[rdean]

They have us all duped again. The Supreme Court is neither "Liberal" nor "Conservative." Foreign Terrorists should not receive U.S. Constitutional Rights. They do have rights as human beings but they do not deserve to be protected by our U.S. Constitution. That was a ludicrous Left Wing ruling by a supposed "Conservative" or "Right Wing" Supreme Court. Left Wingers are still dancing in the streets over that awful ruling. It all just seems to be a game at this point. They simply throw a bone to both sides in a back and forth manner. This latest ruling is perceived to be a "Right Wing" decision by all the hysterical Leftists so look for the next big Supreme Court ruling to go in favor of the Left. Seems pretty rigged to me. Just my humble observation anyway.

So, in your opinion, the right-wing exists to represent the interests of Corporations?

I'm glad one of you finally admitted it outright.

As a conservative, I represent:

1. The right to Life, Liberty and Property for all men.
2. Equality of Opportunity, not results.
3. Equality under the law and abolishment of special rights.
4. Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society, not moral relativism and situational ethics.
5. Fostering a political environment for the most freedom possible to all men barring the infringement on the rights of others.
6. Limiting government's influence and power in every individual citizen's life to the barest minimum possible.
7. Protecting the nation from enemies within and without who desire to end these freedoms for all American Citizens.
8. Encouraging charity through dint of personal desire, not threat of government force.
9. Granting that all men have the right to keep what they earn
10. Protecting the freedom of association, and right to help or NOT help those a man sees fit.

Those are things I represent as a conservative at my fundamental core.

Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society - what exactly is that based on?

 

[Big Fitz]

So, in your opinion, the right-wing exists to represent the interests of Corporations?

I'm glad one of you finally admitted it outright.

As a conservative, I represent:

1. The right to Life, Liberty and Property for all men.
2. Equality of Opportunity, not results.
3. Equality under the law and abolishment of special rights.
4. Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society, not moral relativism and situational ethics.
5. Fostering a political environment for the most freedom possible to all men barring the infringement on the rights of others.
6. Limiting government's influence and power in every individual citizen's life to the barest minimum possible.
7. Protecting the nation from enemies within and without who desire to end these freedoms for all American Citizens.
8. Encouraging charity through dint of personal desire, not threat of government force.
9. Granting that all men have the right to keep what they earn
10. Protecting the freedom of association, and right to help or NOT help those a man sees fit.

Those are things I represent as a conservative at my fundamental core.

Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society - what exactly is that based on?

They are cut into the stone of the Supreme Court, and the ACLU is still bitching about it.

 

[Liability]

Simple answer to this problem in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ndividual-then-it-must-be-taxed-that-way.html

Corporations will be racing out the door faster than you can say "Boo!" if we say that if they want the same rights as an individual, they will have to pay the same income taxes as an individual.

Corporations already DO pay taxes.

In fact, in the sense that a corporation is the total of its shares as held by shareholders, corporations pay double taxation.

The individual shareholders have their individual voices. Now, they also have their collective voice.

Your "simple" answer is really just simplistic blather.

 

[saveliberty]

And of course, here's another big problem with this:

A Corporation is run by it's largest shareholders. Often these shareholder make up a minority of the total.

Which means that the largest shareholders are possibly making decision that 90% of the total shareholders don't agree with, and using their money to do so.

No that is not true. To own a controlling interest in a corporation you need to own more half of the voting shares of that stock. There is an exception where some companies need 2/3rds shareholder approval to pass something so someone holding only 34% of the shares can block something from getting passed. But a 10% shareholder cannot tell the other 90% what to do. That is just false.

Controlling Interest: The ownership of more than 50% of a company's voting stock; or a significant fraction, even if less than 50%, if the rest of the shares are not actively voted.

controlling interest Definition

If you own 5% the SEC requires disclosure of that position.

 

[rdean]

How much bailout cash did your Hopey Changey give to GE? GE owns media outlets such as NBC. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that NBC has become the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media? I'm still shocked that they got away with giving GE all that bailout money. Watching this President and Democrats railing against the "Evil Corporations" is just plain laughable. Point is,Corporations are a fact of life and do employ much of our nations' work force. Demonizing them the way the Left does just seems so immature and naive. They really should investigate the whole GE fiasco in my opinion.

May I point out that corporations sole goal is to make money and NOT protect their employees.

Besides, it's wonderful that you care so much for companies that care nothing for you. You think they are important? Well, they will be. Now that our political process has been opened up to foreign corporations, get ready for candidates funded by EADS and Saudi Arabia and China. Then we'll see how hard they work to keep American jobs in America. This is going to be rich.

 

[rdean]

As a conservative, I represent:

1. The right to Life, Liberty and Property for all men.
2. Equality of Opportunity, not results.
3. Equality under the law and abolishment of special rights.
4. Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society, not moral relativism and situational ethics.
5. Fostering a political environment for the most freedom possible to all men barring the infringement on the rights of others.
6. Limiting government's influence and power in every individual citizen's life to the barest minimum possible.
7. Protecting the nation from enemies within and without who desire to end these freedoms for all American Citizens.
8. Encouraging charity through dint of personal desire, not threat of government force.
9. Granting that all men have the right to keep what they earn
10. Protecting the freedom of association, and right to help or NOT help those a man sees fit.

Those are things I represent as a conservative at my fundamental core.

Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society - what exactly is that based on?

They are cut into the stone of the Supreme Court, and the ACLU is still bitching about it.

If they were "absolute" then they wouldn't need a vote. Just curious, can you name a few "absolutes"?

Equality under the law and abashment of special rights.

It's nice to see that you support gay rights.

 

[Vast LWC]

The ruling we are discussing from two days ago would have zero impact on the senario you just described above.

And if the bid Laden's were the largest shareholder of American Express and sold a large chunk of that if would be known in the financial world and if someone running for the Senate had a maiden name of bin Laden that would be known as well.

That was a obvious example, used to make a point.

Certainly they could find someone trustworthy to run the company that did not have the maiden name Bin Laden.

And no, "the World" wouldn't know if the Bin Laden family held a deciding share of American Express, as they could easily run it by proxy, or through a 3rd party company that they owned a controlling share of.

Thus is the way of the corporate world.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Corporations are a reality and they do provide jobs. Demonizing them the way the Left does is just silly. That being said,i do have a big problem with this President giving Billions in Tax Dollars to a Corporation like GE which owns Media Outlets like NBC. I find it so sad & shocking that Leftists just dismiss the fact that NBC has become the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media. I don't understand how this President and Democrats got away with giving GE all that bailout money. I would like to see Leftists show more outrage over this stuff. Sadly still not a peep out of them on issues like this. That's why their sudden outrage over this kind of ruling just seems a bit feigned to me. Hey just my opinion anyway.

 

[cawacko]

The ruling we are discussing from two days ago would have zero impact on the senario you just described above.

And if the bid Laden's were the largest shareholder of American Express and sold a large chunk of that if would be known in the financial world and if someone running for the Senate had a maiden name of bin Laden that would be known as well.

That was a obvious example, used to make a point.

Certainly they could find someone trustworthy to run the company that did not have the maiden name Bin Laden.

And no, "the World" wouldn't know if the Bin Laden family held a deciding share of American Express, as they could easily run it by proxy, or through a 3rd party company that they owned a controlling share of.

Thus is the way of the corporate world.

You don't think information like that wouldn't be found out? If you own controllling interest in a major corporation it has to be disclosed and all investors are going to know who you are. Someone with that powerful of a position cannot hide anonomously (sp) behind some third party.

 

[Vast LWC]

How much bailout cash did your Hopey Changey give to GE? GE owns media outlets such as NBC. Do you really think it's just a coincidence that NBC has become the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media? I'm still shocked that they got away with giving GE all that bailout money. Watching this President and Democrats railing against the "Evil Corporations" is just plain laughable. Point is,Corporations are a fact of life and do employ much of our nations' work force. Demonizing them the way the Left does just seems so immature and naive. They really should investigate the whole GE fiasco in my opinion.

Please give us a link proving that President Obama GAVE GE any bailout money. Here, I'll give you some links to prove you wrong.

F.D.I.C. to Back $139 Billion in GE Capital Debt - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com

Loophole Helps GE Benefit From Bank Rescue Program - washingtonpost.com

In fact, the only thing that happened was that the FDIC insured GE's debt programs, like they insured similar programs for other banks.

And here is an important quote from the second story:

The Obama administration now wants to close such loopholes as it works to overhaul the financial system. The plan would reaffirm and strengthen the wall between banking and commerce, forcing companies like GE to essentially choose one or the other.

In fact, the government has MADE money on the program GE was a beneficiary of, not GIVEN AWAY money.

"The TGLP program has been a moneymaker for us," FDIC chairman Sheila C. Bair has said. "So I think there have been some benefits to the government and the FDIC."

But don't let those pesky facts get in the way.

 

[Big Fitz]

Absolutist ethics and morality as the foundation of society - what exactly is that based on?

They are cut into the stone of the Supreme Court, and the ACLU is still bitching about it.

If they were "absolute" then they wouldn't need a vote. Just curious, can you name a few "absolutes"?

Equality under the law and abashment of special rights.

It's nice to see that you support gay rights.

Push your twisted agenda on someone else. I'm not giving you the platform.

 

[Vast LWC]

Corporations already DO pay taxes.

In fact, in the sense that a corporation is the total of its shares as held by shareholders, corporations pay double taxation.

The individual shareholders have their individual voices. Now, they also have their collective voice.

Your "simple" answer is really just simplistic blather.

A fact which has been mentioned and argued in other threads.

Corporations pay far LESS taxes than an individual would pay at the same income level.

And, yes, the shareholders do pay taxes, and they can also get involved in government on their own, outside of the corporation.

If a corporation is to be viewed as a separate individual entity, it must pay taxes on profits.

 

[Vast LWC]

Corporations are a reality and they do provide jobs. Demonizing them the way the Left does is just silly. That being said,i do have a big problem with this President giving Billions in Tax Dollars to a Corporation like GE which owns Media Outlets like NBC. I find it so sad & shocking that Leftists just dismiss the fact that NBC has become the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media. I don't understand how this President and Democrats got away with giving GE all that bailout money. I would like to see Leftists show more outrage over this stuff. Sadly still not a peep out of them on issues like this. That's why their sudden outrage over this kind of ruling just seems a bit feigned to me. Hey just my opinion anyway.

And of course, even though your point was false...

If you believe it to be true, and are angered by it, then you should be especially enraged by the Supreme Court decision, which would amplify corporations ability to do exactly what you are describing.

 

[Vast LWC]

Controlling Interest: The ownership of more than 50% of a company's voting stock; or a significant fraction, even if less than 50%, if the rest of the shares are not actively voted.

controlling interest Definition

If you own 5% the SEC requires disclosure of that position.

Point 1: the term "Voting Stock",
which does not include investors that own "Non-Voting Stock".

Point 2: "even if less than 50%, if the rest of the shares are not actively voted",
which is very important, as this is the case in most large corporations. Often the people who decide the fate of the corporation own around 10% of the stock or less.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

What GE received,amounted to a Bailout. Go ahead and spin if it makes you happy though. I wont stand in your way. GE got the sweet deal and presto,NBC quickly becomes the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media. Now that's something to get outraged about. No Corporation that owns Media Outlets should ever receive Government Bailouts. This stuff just doesn't seem to bother the Leftists though. I wonder why??

 

[Vast LWC]

You don't think information like that wouldn't be found out? If you own controllling interest in a major corporation it has to be disclosed and all investors are going to know who you are. Someone with that powerful of a position cannot hide anonomously (sp) behind some third party.

Certainly they can.

If I own a 20% interest in Coca Cola, and that allows me to control the company (as most of the shareholders don't vote)...

And Coca Cola buys a controlling interest in American Express...

Then I effectively run American Express.

 

[Vast LWC]

What GE received,amounted to a Bailout. Go ahead and spin if it makes you happy though. I wont stand in your way. GE got the sweet deal and presto,NBC quickly becomes the biggest Hopey Changey Boot-Licker in the Media. Now that's something to get outraged about. No Corporation that owns Media Outlets should ever receive Government Bailouts. This stuff just doesn't seem to bother the Leftists though. I wonder why??

So, how much money did the government give GE?

 

[Liability]

Corporations already DO pay taxes.

In fact, in the sense that a corporation is the total of its shares as held by shareholders, corporations pay double taxation.

The individual shareholders have their individual voices. Now, they also have their collective voice.

Your "simple" answer is really just simplistic blather.

A fact which has been mentioned and argued in other threads.

Corporations pay far LESS taxes than an individual would pay at the same income level.

And, yes, the shareholders do pay taxes, and they can also get involved in government on their own, outside of the corporation.

If a corporation is to be viewed as a separate individual entity, it must pay taxes on profits.

Your argument is both circular and irrational.

Corporations might as well pay at a lower rate -- and if we cared about logic at all -- corporations wouldn't pay ANY taxes. They only pass them along (naturally) to consumers in the form of increased costs anyway. Every time some liberal knucklehead goes after one of those evil corporations, what they are really doing is making products more expensive. That's it. That's all they're doing. Nothing more complicated than that.

In any event, if US General Robotics makes a super android-like robot to become the premiere butler for the American home, they might make a damn killing on their corporate balance sheets somewhere down the road. {Ka-Ching!} When the shareholders cash in their chips by selling a few shares at a time, every once in a while, their share of the profits will be getting taxed -- taxpaying shareholder by taxpaying shareholder -- anyway.

And those taxpayers can and DO get involved in government on their own --as they have every right to do. But they are ALSO just as entitled to do so collectively!

Why should any GOVERNMENT agent tell their association that it is not entitled to be heard on behalf of the association's membership?

 

[Vast LWC]

Your argument is both circular and irrational.

Corporations might as well pay at a lower rate -- and if we cared about logic at all -- corporations wouldn't pay ANY taxes. They only pass them along (naturally) to consumers in the form of increased costs anyway. Every time some liberal knucklehead goes after one of those evil corporations, what they are really doing is making products more expensive. That's it. That's all they're doing. Nothing more complicated than that.

In any event, if US General Robotics makes a super android-like robot to become the premiere butler for the American home, they might make a damn killing on their corporate balance sheets somewhere down the road. {Ka-Ching!} When the shareholders cash in their chips by selling a few shares at a time, every once in a while, their share of the profits will be getting taxed -- taxpaying shareholder by taxpaying shareholder -- anyway.

And those taxpayers can and DO get involved in government on their own --as they have every right to do. But they are ALSO just as entitled to do so collectively!

Why should any GOVERNMENT agent tell their association that it is not entitled to be heard on behalf of the association's membership?

And, as we discussed on those same other threads, the corporation in question would not need to pay taxes as an individual, as long as they did not try to claim the rights of an individual.

It's perfectly rational. Either a Corporation is an individual citizen, or it is not. You can't pick and choose the good, and leave the bad behind.

According to the Supreme Court decision, Corporations shall be afforded the rights of individuals if they want to exercise them.

Therefore, if they choose to exercise them to influence the political process, they must pay taxes as an individual would.

Hell, I guess they should also be subject to the draft, just like everybody else. I guess in wartime, the government could "draft" them, and force them to work for the military.



And as far as the shareholders taxes are concerned... They only pay a 15% tax rate on Capital Gains. MUCH less than individual taxpayers.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Everyone has the right to fund any campaign they choose and yes this includes Coporations. The Unions will likely benefit from this ruling as well. Hey if a Moveon.org Candidate can go out there and demonize a particular Corporation,i see no reason why that Corporation shouldn't be allowed to fight back. Free Speech can be a very tricky thing. You may hate a particular group but that group still has a right to be heard. It's what America is all about.