When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer

[Billy000]

You definitely are right that context matters, but I don’t know why I should believe any fact checker has been compromised. If that’s the case, who exaxctly should I trust to find out the truth?

That's the whole point silly. You don't go to a fact checker -- you WORK for it. You MIGHT have to read a Fox news article or something not TOTALLY reliable to GET TO reliable information. I never reject any sources that aren't flat out conspiracy nonsense. But I'll never DECIDE until I research a BROAD range of sources. Including trying to sit thru CSPAN re-runs of politicians spending 70% of hearings bloviating and self-congratulating. It's PAINFUL. It's not EASY. It's not thumb typing or clicking.

It's childish to let a "fact checker" THINK for you.

Where I'm coming from is almost 35 years in the sciences and engineering and technical academia. THere's the scientific method as a guide. There's setting up the DEFINITIONS for a statistic. A statistic without definitions and confidence levels is useless and manipulative.

Hell --- there are no numbers coming out of that massive bureaucracy in DC that AREN'T subject to skepticism BECAUSE of the hokey definitions that were made to set them up. Like the 15 Unemployment indexes or the different sneaky ways that "ObamaCare enrollment" was calculated. Even DIPLOMATS can agree on Trade Deficits because it takes EFFORT AND DILIGIENCE and clear thinking to understand the facts and numbers.

To borrow a phrase -- GET WOKE. This age of information is turning to a curse. EVERYBODY thinks they own your computer, your allegiance and your mind. It's "defense against the black arts". Only the folks that think for themselves are gonna survive.

I mean...yeah okay C-SPAN isn’t a bad source. I’ve always considered it to be the raw data of a political position, but it doesn’t mean you understand what they are talking about. I think a lot of things would go over my head because public policy is very complex. It takes a higher education to understand it with some authority. My sister is an analyst for the Government Accountability Office. You would be amazed to figure out just how ignorant you and I are of American public policy. There is so much to learn from it. I mean is C-SPAN the only thing I should trust? Who the hell besides you would watch C-SPAN for an extended period of time to understand a political issue? There’s nothing wrong with trusting authority on the subject if they present their argument with a nuanced explanation backed by facts. I don’t see how you or I could become more informed in a meaningful way if we watched C-SPAN all day. C-SPAN is missing a shit load of context on a given day.

 

[Marion Morrison]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

And who is all for dumbing down education?

Leftists in Administrations and Marxist professors, Textbook Publishers.

It's definitely a coordinated effort. It isn't saturated in every state, though, in a few it is. I'd say California, definitely, although there may be some holdout counties even there.

 

[Picaro]

Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

That's the golden nugget right there. There is more indoctrination and less value on thinking freely for yourself.

At Hogwarts -- there was an emphasis on "Defense from the Dark Arts". We need that. Even if you have to hire a sketchy guy like Professor Snape to teach it. LOTS of "dark arts action" going on.

The reliance on fact-checkers, social media and media sources who have chucked integrity and reason is another cause.

Probably also need to require that journalism students take many more courses on how stuff works rather than being admonished to "change the world".

Have you read F.A. Hayek's The Fatal Conceit yet? The 'Rationalist' myth is just as dangerous, and he does a good job of explaining why.

 

[Tom Horn]

What do you think happened to all the '60's radicals? Think they all turned into stockbrokers like Jerry Rubin (who I was hired to bodyguard one night in Detroit...a total putz) Now Abbie, he was another breed of cat...I met Abbie Hoffman inside a Washington Redskins practice field (temporary compound for arrested protesters, guarded by National Guard weekenders holding M-16s with no magazines). I got arrested to stay with my client, a little Teamster big shot's radical daughter. Abbie had a busted nose and I gave him my bandana which turned out to still be full of tear gas residue and he started coughing and yelling at me...until we both started laughing and struck up a conversation. He told me in a low whisper the "movement" would infiltrate the government schools and produce generation after generation of radicals who would one day form into numbers that would control every aspect of government and economic activity....and guess what..that's exactly what they've done. Until we clean out the government schools...close them....we will lose piece after piece of the country until there's nothing of value left and we're sitting ducks for the barbarians. Maybe Trump can turn the tide...we'll see.

 

[Picaro]

What do you think happened to all the '60's radicals? Think they all turned into stockbrokers like Jerry Rubin (who I was hired to bodyguard one night in Detroit...a total putz) Now Abbie, he was another breed of cat...I met Abbie Hoffman inside a Washington Redskins practice field (temporary compound for arrested protesters, guarded by National Guard weekenders holding M-16s with no magazines). I got arrested to stay with my client, a little Teamster big shot's radical daughter. Abbie had a busted nose and I gave him my bandana which turned out to still be full of tear gas residue and he started coughing and yelling at me...until we both started laughing and struck up a conversation. He told me in a low whisper the "movement" would infiltrate the government schools and produce generation after generation of radicals who would one day form into numbers that would control every aspect of government and economic activity....and guess what..that's exactly what they've done. Until we clean out the government schools...close them....we will lose piece after piece of the country until there's nothing of value left and we're sitting ducks for the barbarians. Maybe Trump can turn the tide...we'll see.

they were all students of Gramsci, and Hollywood, too.

 

[sparky]

What do you think happened to all the '60's radicals? Think they all turned into stockbrokers like Jerry Rubin (who I was hired to bodyguard one night in Detroit...a total putz) Now Abbie, he was another breed of cat...I met Abbie Hoffman inside a Washington Redskins practice field (temporary compound for arrested protesters, guarded by National Guard weekenders holding M-16s with no magazines). I got arrested to stay with my client, a little Teamster big shot's radical daughter. Abbie had a busted nose and I gave him my bandana which turned out to still be full of tear gas residue and he started coughing and yelling at me...until we both started laughing and struck up a conversation. He told me in a low whisper the "movement" would infiltrate the government schools and produce generation after generation of radicals who would one day form into numbers that would control every aspect of government and economic activity....and guess what..that's exactly what they've done. Until we clean out the government schools...close them....we will lose piece after piece of the country until there's nothing of value left and we're sitting ducks for the barbarians. Maybe Trump can turn the tide...we'll see.

Abbie!

Yeah i can remember reading him back in the day>>>

 

[Kondor3]

...You can't have a nation full of people incapable of figuring things out for themselves.

Sure you can.

The world contains a great many such nations.

And there are great many Democrats... and a great many Republicans... who would be content with a nation of Sheeple here, too, dumbed-down, and pliant.

"The price of Liberty is Eternal Vigilance."

 

[SweetSue92]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Well, this might belong in the education forum. And I say this as a conservative public school teacher. But all too often, when conservatives take over the state legislatures, they fall victim to testing testing testing. And those are dumbed down bubble tests. That does not foster critical thinking but the opposite of critical thinking, actually. All too often, in education, the practices that foster critical thinking are lampooned by conservatives as being too "liberal" for the classroom.

Rote memorization, bubble tests, and etc do not foster critical thinking. You can still have a rigorous curriculum in place with high standards and expectations that is not based ONLY on memorization and bubble tests.

 

[SweetSue92]

What do you think happened to all the '60's radicals? Think they all turned into stockbrokers like Jerry Rubin (who I was hired to bodyguard one night in Detroit...a total putz) Now Abbie, he was another breed of cat...I met Abbie Hoffman inside a Washington Redskins practice field (temporary compound for arrested protesters, guarded by National Guard weekenders holding M-16s with no magazines). I got arrested to stay with my client, a little Teamster big shot's radical daughter. Abbie had a busted nose and I gave him my bandana which turned out to still be full of tear gas residue and he started coughing and yelling at me...until we both started laughing and struck up a conversation. He told me in a low whisper the "movement" would infiltrate the government schools and produce generation after generation of radicals who would one day form into numbers that would control every aspect of government and economic activity....and guess what..that's exactly what they've done. Until we clean out the government schools...close them....we will lose piece after piece of the country until there's nothing of value left and we're sitting ducks for the barbarians. Maybe Trump can turn the tide...we'll see.

There is always a kernel of truth when conservatives yap about "government schools"... and a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, too.

The little kindergarten teacher in Hometown, Nebraska sitting down the pew from you, whose husband is the pastor, is also working for the "government schools", you know. The "government schools" is Berkeley, California, and Hometown, Nebraska, and U.P., Michigan and Key West, Florida and your neighbors. It's not a legion of like nameless, faceless bureaucrats like in D.C. for pity's sake.

 

[night_son]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Excellent article. I recommend an in-depth reading of Mao's 1960's Cultural Revolution--with particular attention paid to his Red Guards youth movement--to put this piece into proper contemporary American perspective.

Would I be fair and balanced if I said you think everyone should study the writings of Mao? How do you think fox and the entire right wing bubble would respond if a Democratic politician said exactly what you just said?

Unlike the Left's fantasy of self- enforced censorship by self-flagellation of political correctness, the American Right still recognizes its individual freedom to digest literature in all its forms and from any historical source. And that is precisely why everyone should read such historical warnings to draw parallels in times of standing on cliff' edges, rather than mistake cynicism and deconstruction for intelligence. Your above sentences sound eerily similar to what a Mao's Red Guard might say as they rat out a parent to the State for anti-communist party speech.

 

[SweetSue92]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Excellent article. I recommend an in-depth reading of Mao's 1960's Cultural Revolution--with particular attention paid to his Red Guards youth movement--to put this piece into proper contemporary American perspective.

Would I be fair and balanced if I said you think everyone should study the writings of Mao? How do you think fox and the entire right wing bubble would respond if a Democratic politician said exactly what you just said?

Unlike the Left's fantasy of self- enforced censorship by self-flagellation of political correctness, the American Right still recognizes its individual freedom to digest literature in all its forms and from any historical source. And that is precisely why everyone should read such historical warnings to draw parallels in times of standing on cliff' edges, rather than mistake cynicism and deconstruction for intelligence. Your above sentences sound eerily similar to what a Mao's Red Guard might say as they rat out a parent to the State for anti-communist party speech.

It has been said before and I believe it: we understand how they think. They do not begin to understand how we think. Partly because they absolutely do not understand reading from viewpoints and in viewpoints not their own.

Old liberals used to understand this, to be fair. The New Hotness--modern Leftists--can't be bothered.

 

[Mac1958]

Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

And that may be at the core of our problems. We're conditioned to think tactically, not critically. Beat the other "side", no matter what it takes. Wait for the the person to stop talking, and then just attack.

There are people who argue that it has been so long since we engaged in critical thinking and communicated based on critical thinking that we've essentially lost the skill.

I agree with that, and that worries me as much as anything else.
.

 

[SweetSue92]

Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

And that may be at the core of our problems. We're conditioned to think tactically, not critically. Beat the other "side", no matter what it takes. Wait for the the person to stop talking, and then just attack.

There are people who argue that it has been so long since we engaged in critical thinking and communicated based on critical thinking that we've essentially lost the skill.

I agree with that, and that worries me as much as anything else.
.

Okay so here's a question not just for you but for the thread:

What do you think a K-12 classroom would look and sound like if the students were thinking critically, and were encouraged to think critically?

 

[Picaro]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Well, this might belong in the education forum. And I say this as a conservative public school teacher. But all too often, when conservatives take over the state legislatures, they fall victim to testing testing testing. And those are dumbed down bubble tests. That does not foster critical thinking but the opposite of critical thinking, actually. All too often, in education, the practices that foster critical thinking are lampooned by conservatives as being too "liberal" for the classroom.

Rote memorization, bubble tests, and etc do not foster critical thinking. You can still have a rigorous curriculum in place with high standards and expectations that is not based ONLY on memorization and bubble tests.

Indeed. These are points not often popular on message boards, but I hear them a lot at school board meetings.

 

[Mac1958]

What do you think a K-12 classroom would look and sound like if the students were thinking critically, and were encouraged to think critically?

Off the top of my head, I'd think the teacher would be a little more of a facilitator. They would introduce facts and structure and require the class to to express themselves, ask questions, and communicate. Promote intellectual curiosity and communication at absolutely every opportunity.

Since American adults no longer possess those attributes, perhaps we can save the future through our kids.
.

 

[SweetSue92]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Well, this might belong in the education forum. And I say this as a conservative public school teacher. But all too often, when conservatives take over the state legislatures, they fall victim to testing testing testing. And those are dumbed down bubble tests. That does not foster critical thinking but the opposite of critical thinking, actually. All too often, in education, the practices that foster critical thinking are lampooned by conservatives as being too "liberal" for the classroom.

Rote memorization, bubble tests, and etc do not foster critical thinking. You can still have a rigorous curriculum in place with high standards and expectations that is not based ONLY on memorization and bubble tests.

Indeed. These are points not often popular on message boards, but I hear them a lot at school board meetings.

How many of us use bubble-test skills in our jobs?

I mean absolutely yes, we need baseline knowledge and can't escape that. Phonics. Spelling. Math facts need memorizing. I'm never going to deny that. But really, the best we can do to assess kids (for politicians and real-estate agents) is bubble-testing? That's what we've got?

 

[night_son]

A great piece on how social media is making everybody dumber, but primarily I blame the education system. Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

Did you hear, for example, that Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, had an actual, literal, real-life Nazi working for it? A Nazi! Also, there was a secret deal between retiring Justice Anthony Kennedy and Donald Trump where Kennedy agreed he would retire if and only if Trump subsequently nominated Brett Kavanaugh, Kennedy’s handpicked successor, to fill his seat.

If you spend any time on Twitter, you’ve likely come across these rumors, both of which exploded onto the social-media scene in recent weeks. It’s somewhat less likely you came across the news that both are false. The ICE story had an embarrassingly simple explanation: A bunch of people, including some professional journalists and policy mavens, decided that a tattoo visible on an ICE employee’s arm in a publicity photograph was a Nazi symbol, and began clamoring for ICE to be held accountable for allowing a dangerous extremist into its ranks. But the tattoo wasn’t, in fact, an Iron Cross: As Haaretz subsequently explained, the employee’s tattoo was a “‘Titan 2,’ the symbol of the platoon he fought with in Afghanistan, where he lost both of his legs in an IED explosion.”

When outrage is all the rage, progressive politics suffer - The Boston Globe

Excellent article. I recommend an in-depth reading of Mao's 1960's Cultural Revolution--with particular attention paid to his Red Guards youth movement--to put this piece into proper contemporary American perspective.

Would I be fair and balanced if I said you think everyone should study the writings of Mao? How do you think fox and the entire right wing bubble would respond if a Democratic politician said exactly what you just said?

Unlike the Left's fantasy of self- enforced censorship by self-flagellation of political correctness, the American Right still recognizes its individual freedom to digest literature in all its forms and from any historical source. And that is precisely why everyone should read such historical warnings to draw parallels in times of standing on cliff' edges, rather than mistake cynicism and deconstruction for intelligence. Your above sentences sound eerily similar to what a Mao's Red Guard might say as they rat out a parent to the State for anti-communist party speech.

It has been said before and I believe it: we understand how they think. They do not begin to understand how we think. Partly because they absolutely do not understand reading from viewpoints and in viewpoints not their own.

Old liberals used to understand this, to be fair. The New Hotness--modern Leftists--can't be bothered.

It's an indoctrination thing for the contemporary Left and a finger pointing contest. For many on the Right core belief is about maintaining tradition--not betraying it. Part of achieving that is keeping a careful ear to the ground of history.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

And that may be at the core of our problems. We're conditioned to think tactically, not critically. Beat the other "side", no matter what it takes. Wait for the the person to stop talking, and then just attack.

There are people who argue that it has been so long since we engaged in critical thinking and communicated based on critical thinking that we've essentially lost the skill.

I agree with that, and that worries me as much as anything else.
.

Okay so here's a question not just for you but for the thread:

What do you think a K-12 classroom would look and sound like if the students were thinking critically, and were encouraged to think critically?

All ages in one classroom? Pure chaos!

 

[SweetSue92]

Nobody is taught how to think critically anymore.

And that may be at the core of our problems. We're conditioned to think tactically, not critically. Beat the other "side", no matter what it takes. Wait for the the person to stop talking, and then just attack.

There are people who argue that it has been so long since we engaged in critical thinking and communicated based on critical thinking that we've essentially lost the skill.

I agree with that, and that worries me as much as anything else.
.

Okay so here's a question not just for you but for the thread:

What do you think a K-12 classroom would look and sound like if the students were thinking critically, and were encouraged to think critically?

Off the top of my head, I'd think the teacher would be a little more of a facilitator. They would introduce facts and structure and require the class to to express themselves, ask questions, and communicate. Promote intellectual curiosity and communication at absolutely every opportunity.

Since American adults no longer possess those attributes, perhaps we can save the future through our kids.
.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Dare I say this teacher gives you a gold star? Hahaha

This is exactly how we are reforming our classrooms, because the research says it works. Yes, you present the information. And then, good teaching requires just as many questions as answers. "Why do you say that? Tell me how you got that answer. What was your thinking there?"

If you can get kids to make their OWN connections, guess what they do? They bring those connections to their next project, their next puzzle. They make their own connections; they're thinking critically.

But those classrooms--and that learning--is messy, loud, often looks a little "disorganized", and does not take place in silence with desks in rows. It is not "read this chapter and silently answer the questions at the end". It is better than that but, like all great things in life, a little less predictable. But worth the mess.

 

[Mac1958]

This is exactly how we are reforming our classrooms, because the research says it works.

Huh? Yeah? We're making this change?

That's great to hear, seriously.

Wow, nice way to start the day.
.