When did Junk Plans become Junk Plans

[The Rabbi]

Count on Rabbi for a stupid non-sequitor when he can't make an argument.

Again- the government wants something from me. My vote. In fact, they will compete to get my vote when they figure they can't fool me by waving a bible or a flag in front of me.

Insurance company. Meh. They already have my money. The idea is not to give it back.

Can't quite wrap your mind around the idea that bureaucracy is unelected and unaccountable, eh Joe? If I dont like the way a company does business, I go to their competitor. WHere do I go when I dont like government?

 

[JoeB131]

Count on Rabbi for a stupid non-sequitor when he can't make an argument.

Again- the government wants something from me. My vote. In fact, they will compete to get my vote when they figure they can't fool me by waving a bible or a flag in front of me.

Insurance company. Meh. They already have my money. The idea is not to give it back.

Can't quite wrap your mind around the idea that bureaucracy is unelected and unaccountable, eh Joe? If I dont like the way a company does business, I go to their competitor. WHere do I go when I dont like government?

YOu vote in the other party or someone who can get the job done.

But here's the thing. YOu really CAN'T go to their competitor.

This is what you guys don't get. Besides the fact they won't take you with a pre-existing condition, the fact is , you didn't pick this company, your employer did in most cases, and they could care less if you live or die.

I mean, I can go to my boss and ask why our insurance sucks so badly, but it's not like he's going to change it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Count on Rabbi for a stupid non-sequitor when he can't make an argument.

Again- the government wants something from me. My vote. In fact, they will compete to get my vote when they figure they can't fool me by waving a bible or a flag in front of me.

Insurance company. Meh. They already have my money. The idea is not to give it back.

Can't quite wrap your mind around the idea that bureaucracy is unelected and unaccountable, eh Joe? If I dont like the way a company does business, I go to their competitor. WHere do I go when I dont like government?

YOu vote in the other party or someone who can get the job done.

But here's the thing. YOu really CAN'T go to their competitor.

This is what you guys don't get. Besides the fact they won't take you with a pre-existing condition, the fact is , you didn't pick this company, your employer did in most cases, and they could care less if you live or die.

I mean, I can go to my boss and ask why our insurance sucks so badly, but it's not like he's going to change it.

That's because your boss thinks you're a whiner.
So you admit that bureaucrats are not elected, and therefore not accountable. You throw the pre-existing conditions thing out, even though most people dont have them and in any case ACA forbid that as a factor. So you are left with whining about company policies.
Pretty darn pathetic, Joe. Even for you

 

[JoeB131]

That's because your boss thinks you're a whiner.
So you admit that bureaucrats are not elected, and therefore not accountable. You throw the pre-existing conditions thing out, even though most people dont have them and in any case ACA forbid that as a factor. So you are left with whining about company policies.
Pretty darn pathetic, Joe. Even for you

So you are admitting the ACA does some good?

No, the bureaucrats report to elected officials, so I'm not worried about them. Usually I've found a call to a Congressman's office usually gets a bureaucrat off his ass pretty quickly.

Insurance companies? Fuck it, let them die. We've got their money.

 

[The Rabbi]

That's because your boss thinks you're a whiner.
So you admit that bureaucrats are not elected, and therefore not accountable. You throw the pre-existing conditions thing out, even though most people dont have them and in any case ACA forbid that as a factor. So you are left with whining about company policies.
Pretty darn pathetic, Joe. Even for you

So you are admitting the ACA does some good?

No, the bureaucrats report to elected officials, so I'm not worried about them. Usually I've found a call to a Congressman's office usually gets a bureaucrat off his ass pretty quickly.

Insurance companies? Fuck it, let them die. We've got their money.

No, I actually oppose the pre-existing conditions mandate. But that is how it is.
I shouldnt need to call my congressman to get something done. That's a patronage system worthy of corrupt dictatorships.
Who is this "we" who has the insurance companies' money?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The numbers are in the links and it was 5 not 4 which I corrected.

There are at least 10 companies that are supplying insurance in Florida through the exchange. I provided the link for that, and you were wrong.

The numbers are not in the links unless you think a forum post is proof of a stupid claim. The interesting thing is that a just 8 posts down there is a post that directly contradicts the numbers you have declared to be true, did you not read that far?

Well I have seen all the replies and as a Florida Blue agent, yes we ceased selling the maternity rider on July 1. YAgent's scenario is your best bet. The agent that quoted you the price for that particular plan was way way off in the premium if you could have purchased it, doesn't cost that much for that particular plan. No you cannot add it to your plan Jan 1, 2014, you will have to purchase one of the new plans being offered starting Oct 1, to have maternity coverage in which case if you are above 400% of poverty level will be shell shocked at the premiums. As YA said if you're on a Grandfathered plan, save your money and when you get pregnant go to your doc and hospital and make a deal for a 50% discount to pay off before delivery and yes if you have a complication your present policy will pay that portion of the bill.

If the post in the link I gave you isn't proof of the claim because it's own a forum, then the post you quote on that forum doesn't refute it.

Anyway, here's one in Texas with a premium of $106/mo but only covers $2500 while the average cost is $10,000
Self Employed Maternity Insurance Options in TX (Austin: obgyn, health insurance) - City-Data Forum

Another forum, how wonderful. Maybe you should stop reading forums like they are the be all and end all for your arguments until after you read past the first post.

Second post in your link.

Here's where you can purchase the best maternity insurance plans (in Texas anyway): www.instexas.com

Choices are slim for those who don't have group insurance at work. We found a plan with unlimited maternity insurance coverage for my wife. Our cost was $53 monthly for the maternity insurance (plus the cost of regular health insurance coverage to go with the maternity coverage). I am self-employed and group insurance was not an option (in my situation).

Perhaps this will help others. We searched & searched. This was the best deal we found. Most of the websites we found were worthless. Most of the agents who called us (constantly) could not offer any maternity coverage. This coverage will pay 100% of our maternity costs, with a 30 day wait before conception can occur, and after a $5000 deductible. Considering the cost of hospitalizations, we considered this deductible to be OK. We paid over $15,000 for a 2-day hospitalization recently.

The point, idiot, was that your own link refutes your claim. You made the claim, it is up to you to back it up. So far They seem about as reliable as your insistence that you personally counted every insurer that does business in Florida. In other words, they are total bullshit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What makes single payer good?

It's more government. We can't trust evil corporations because they're in it for the money. We can trust government because their motives are pure as driven snow.
This is the essence of the liberal creed.

More along the lines of, we can trust government because they want to get re-elected. Therefore, providing good patient care is their first priority.

We can't trust insurance companies because their first priority is to the stockholders, their second priority is to the employers actually paying for their plans, and then MAYBE providing good patient care is a third priority.

Which is why you get situations where the CEO of Cigna pays himself an 83,000,000 severance package but he denies a teenage girl's liver transplant.

I can prove that they care a hell of a lot less about getting reelected than you do.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sure you can prove a lot of things when your meds kick in.

Like yesterday when you tried to claim that the murder rate in chicago was four times what it actually was.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm sure you can prove a lot of things when your meds kick in.

Like yesterday when you tried to claim that the murder rate in chicago was four times what it actually was.

All those politicians in Utah were sure worried about reelection, weren't they?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/331226-what-is-in-a-name.html#post8345760

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sure you can prove a lot of things when your meds kick in.

Like yesterday when you tried to claim that the murder rate in chicago was four times what it actually was.

All those politicians in Utah were sure worried about reelection, weren't they?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/331226-what-is-in-a-name.html#post8345760

Okay, that's a horrible law.

Not sure what it has to do with health care plans.

 

[Listening]

I'm sure you can prove a lot of things when your meds kick in.

Like yesterday when you tried to claim that the murder rate in chicago was four times what it actually was.

All those politicians in Utah were sure worried about reelection, weren't they?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/331226-what-is-in-a-name.html#post8345760

Okay, that's a horrible law.

Not sure what it has to do with health care plans.

Oh, I can see the connection.

You know...back when people were saying that the government could not do health care right.

The left said quit whinning and get in line.

And then Obama proved them right.

A real connection in terms of just what kind of crap is going to go on.

How many IRS agents have been shot in the last five years ?

 

[JoeB131]

All those politicians in Utah were sure worried about reelection, weren't they?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/331226-what-is-in-a-name.html#post8345760

Okay, that's a horrible law.

Not sure what it has to do with health care plans.

Oh, I can see the connection.

You know...back when people were saying that the government could not do health care right.

The left said quit whinning and get in line.

And then Obama proved them right.

A real connection in terms of just what kind of crap is going to go on.

How many IRS agents have been shot in the last five years ?

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Listening]

Okay, that's a horrible law.

Not sure what it has to do with health care plans.

Oh, I can see the connection.

You know...back when people were saying that the government could not do health care right.

The left said quit whinning and get in line.

And then Obama proved them right.

A real connection in terms of just what kind of crap is going to go on.

How many IRS agents have been shot in the last five years ?

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EPd2i4Jshs]Krugman gets p3wned on Canadian Health Care - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Amelia]

Okay, that's a horrible law.

Not sure what it has to do with health care plans.

Oh, I can see the connection.

You know...back when people were saying that the government could not do health care right.

The left said quit whinning and get in line.

And then Obama proved them right.

A real connection in terms of just what kind of crap is going to go on.

How many IRS agents have been shot in the last five years ?

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

Hospital delays are killing America's war veterans - CNN.com

 

[JoeB131]

[

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

]

People in countries with Single Payer-

Live Longer
Have a lower infant mortality rate
Spend less per person
Have fewer folks going bankrupt because of medical crisis.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

]

People in countries with Single Payer-

Live Longer
Have a lower infant mortality rate
Spend less per person
Have fewer folks going bankrupt because of medical crisis.

If you believe that shit, feel free to move to one. Personally, I think the belief that crossing an imaginary line will change how long you live is almost as stupid as believing that the moon is made out of green cheese.

 

[Listening]

[

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

]

People in countries with Single Payer-

Live Longer
Have a lower infant mortality rate
Spend less per person
Have fewer folks going bankrupt because of medical crisis.

Please, let's not repeat the same bullcrap.

I'll just go the first.

The Myth of Americans' Poor Life Expectancy - Forbes

It’s one of the most oft-repeated justifications for socialized medicine: Americans spend more money than other developed countries on health care, but don’t live as long. If we would just hop on the European health-care bandwagon, we’d live longer and healthier lives. The only problem is it’s not true.

**************************************

Another point worth making is that people die for other reasons than health. For example, people die because of car accidents and violent crime. A few years back, Robert Ohsfeldt of Texas A&M and John Schneider of the University of Iowa asked the obvious question: what happens if you remove deaths from fatal injuries from the life expectancy tables? Among the 29 members of the OECD, the U.S. vaults from 19th place to…you guessed it…first. Japan, on the same adjustment, drops from first to ninth.

**************************************

So.....horsecrap.

 

[JoeB131]

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

]

People in countries with Single Payer-

Live Longer
Have a lower infant mortality rate
Spend less per person
Have fewer folks going bankrupt because of medical crisis.

If you believe that shit, feel free to move to one. Personally, I think the belief that crossing an imaginary line will change how long you live is almost as stupid as believing that the moon is made out of green cheese.

If you take your meds, your imaginary friends will stop talking to you. Just like the doctor said they would...

But anyway, "imaginary lines" or not, the reality is that other countries have sensible policies.


They make sure everyone is covered, regardless of their ability to pay. They treat health care as a public service and not a consumer commodity you only get if you can afford it.

Hence, they live longer on average because you don't have them poor people dying young and bringing the average down.

Now, if you belong to the Ron Paul "Let them Die" philosophy, I guess this is horrible.

Most decent human beings consider this a good thing.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Please, let's not repeat the same bullcrap.

I'll just go the first.

The Myth of Americans' Poor Life Expectancy - Forbes

It’s one of the most oft-repeated justifications for socialized medicine: Americans spend more money than other developed countries on health care, but don’t live as long. If we would just hop on the European health-care bandwagon, we’d live longer and healthier lives. The only problem is it’s not true.

Gee, the magazine written for rich jagoffs doesn't see health inequality as a problem. Why am I not surprised.

The U.S. ranks 26th for life expectancy, right behind Slovenia

Not anymore: A new report out this morning from the OECD shows that the United States' average lifespan has fallen one year behind the international average, lower than Canada and Germany, more akin to the Czech Republic and Poland.

 

[Spiderman]

[

Actually, no.

We know government can do health care just fine because that's how the rest of the world does it. And government already does it for people the private sector wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I said do it RIGHT.

And no, the rest of the world does not always do it RIGHT.

]

People in countries with Single Payer-

Live Longer
Have a lower infant mortality rate
Spend less per person
Have fewer folks going bankrupt because of medical crisis.

Other countries calculate infant mortality differently than we do

as for spending less on health care maybe but the have to spend more for everything else. For example a bottle of Jameson's cost more in Ireland where it is made than it does in the US. Why Taxes to cover socialized medicine. GAs costs $13 a gallon. Why Taxes to cover socialized medicine.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.