What would you have done with Afghanistan?

[cnm]

My grandparents fought for the Soviet Union.

Then they should tell the story that Japan wanted to surrender after the USSR destroyed the Army of Northern Manchuria.

 

[cnm]

Nah. Their Samurai code was such that they would have fought to the last man.

That's bullshit. They were trying to surrender.

 

[Rigby5]

No one trusts it to do the right thing by its allies. It has demonstrated many times it will pay attention only to its own interests and will not care about any agreements or understandings.

Especially the Afghans.
We made all sorts of promises about helping them rebuild if they fight the Soviets, and then we quickly left without doing a thing we promised.

 

[Rigby5]

Japanese surrender to Soviets in Manchuria.

{...
The operation was carried out as a classic double pincer movement over an area the size of the entire Western European theatre of World War II. In the western pincer, the Soviet Red Army advanced over the deserts and mountains from Mongolia, far from their resupply railways. This confounded the Japanese military analysis of Soviet logistics, and the defenders were caught by surprise in unfortified positions. The Kwantung Army commanders were engaged in a planning exercise at the time of the invasion, and were away from their forces for the first eighteen hours of conflict.

Japanese communication infrastructure was poor, and the Japanese lost communication with forward units very early on. However, the Kwantung Army had a formidable reputation as fierce and relentless fighters, and even though understrength and unprepared, put up strong resistance at the town of Hailar which tied down some of the Soviet forces. At the same time, Soviet airborne units seized airfields and city centers in advance of the land forces, and aircraft ferried fuel to those units that had outrun their supply lines.

The Soviet pincer from the East crossed the Ussuri and advanced around Khanka Lake and attacked towards Suifenhe, and although Japanese defenders fought hard and provided strong resistance, the Soviets proved overwhelming.

After a week of fighting, during which time Soviet forces had penetrated deep into Manchukuo, Japan's Emperor Hirohito recorded the Gyokuon-hōsō which was broadcast on radio to the Japanese nation on 15 August 1945. It made no direct reference to a surrender of Japan, instead stating that the government had been instructed to accept the terms of the Potsdam Declaration fully. This created confusion in the minds of many listeners who were not sure if Japan had surrendered. The poor audio quality of the radio broadcast, as well as the formal courtly language in which the speech was composed, worsened the confusion.

The Imperial Japanese Army Headquarters did not immediately communicate the cease-fire order to the Kwantung Army, and many elements of the army either did not understand it, or ignored it. Hence, pockets of fierce resistance from the Kwantung Army continued, and the Soviets continued their advance, largely avoiding the pockets of resistance, reaching Mukden, Changchun, and Qiqihar by 20 August. The cease-fire order was eventually communicated to the Kwantung Army, but not before the Soviets had made most of their territorial gains.
...}

Soviet invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Then they should tell the story that Japan wanted to surrender after the USSR destroyed the Army of Northern Manchuria.

They told a different story. So you’re calling them liars.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

That's bullshit. They were trying to surrender.

Only in your dreams, Brit. Only in your dreams. They were literally dive bombing into ships to destroy them while killings themselves.

 

[Rigby5]

They told a different story. So you’re calling them liars.

How would low level people be aware if the Japanese were trying to surrender or not?
Russians would know even less about the Japanese than Americans would, because Russia is a huge country, with vast unpopulated areas between the western urban centers and the eastern wilderness near Japan.

 

[Rigby5]

Only in your dreams, Brit. Only in your dreams. They were literally dive bombing into ships to destroy them while killings themselves.

Pilots were the aristocracy, and they would have the Samurai code much more than anyone else.
But they all knew it was over.
They were dying by the thousands, from starvation.
Having your family die of starvation is not at at all "honorable".

 

[EvilCat Breath]

How many years have we been in Japan. Germany, South Korea. We were doing just fine keeping the peace with 2,500 people. Have a permanent base. Who knows maybe someday Afghanistan might develop a functioning government.

 

[MarcATL]

You believe the Taliban? OMG!

Why not? Trump did.

 

[MarcATL]

He could have used President Ford’s withdrawal from Vietnam as a template. He could have prepared our allies for this and given them time to evacuate their people. He could have prepared for and provided for the full evacuation of our people, and those Afghans who worked for and those leaders in democratic efforts, women’s rights, and journalists...all those in danger from the Taliban. Take them to Guam while they get processed like we did the Vietnamese.

I was listening to this interview with Jason Crowe, former vet who served in Afghanistan, now Congressman, part of a bipartisan group trying to get Biden to push the tbe deadline back. He makes good points. Biden failed hugely HUGELY in this, if he can get people out, he might salvage a little.

Why is everyone in the white mainstream media only listening to the same wrong voices who got us in this mess in the first place?

It should give you pause.

 

[Coyote]

Why is everyone in the white mainstream media only listening to the same wrong voices who got us in this mess in the first place?

It should give you pause.

How should it have been done? It isn't like we can go back and undo the agreement made with the terrorists by the former president.

 

[Burgermeister]

My plan would be to tell the Taliban when we are leaving, abandon the Bagram airfield which is designed to be defended, move evacuation operations to a public airport in the middle of Kabul, get the military out and leave thousands of Americans behind to fend for themselves, and give the Taliban a list of those Americans left behind so they know who to kill.

Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Like a joke.

 

[MarcATL]

How should it have been done? It isn't like we can go back and undo the agreement made with the terrorists by the former president.

That's not the point I was making.

Why are the same wrong voices the only ones given "credibility" by the white mainstream media?

 

[bendog]

That's not the point I was making.

Why are the same wrong voices the only ones given "credibility" by the white mainstream media?

I don't often watch natl news on tv. But it does seem to me that even dems seem to be finding some new found ethusiasm to take casualites in Afghan. Not all, but the critics of the evacuation. The gopers seem to be ready to woo Cheney, if only she hadn't noticed that Trump lost.

It appears that even the Taliban didn't expect the Afghan army to lay down. Here we have people like "protectionist" saying we should have bombed more of the shit out of the Taliban. Like that's certainly been a winning formula. Even aside from questions of morality. I think it's safe to conclude the Afghans have decided whom they choose to rule.

I'm not posting personal information, but I can't express how the casualties yesterday sicken and scare me. But the US has airlifted over 100k people, and we've taken "only" less than 20 dead, so far. I fear it will get worse. But we would be OUT BY NOW if something like 1000 dip shit for brains Americans had planned to .... RUN. What's happening is not a great surprise. The US military doesn't exist to provide taxi service to the airport in a civil war.

I'm happy to agree with anyone that Biden should have been LOUDLY advertising before July 4 that it was time for any American who wanted to leave and within two weeks. They don't need to sell a house or wind up whatever money making scheme they are in. But I think even then we'd still have some fools there. I'd be fine to see the last of Blinkin. BUt, I'm certainly NOT willing to agree that Trump/Pompano or Mitch the Turtle could do better. The notion of McConnell trying to run this thing is actually sort of funny, given his "accompishments."

 

[boedicca]

Would have left in 2002, warning the Taliban that another can of whoopass is coming their way if they harbored jihadist scum.

^^^ Twoof ^^^

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Why not? Trump did.

Trump didn’t. He threatened them. Big difference. If I say Marc please don’t post stupid shit and you say OK. I won’t believe you. If I say Marc if you post stupid shit you will be banned so don’t. And you say OK. Then you ve been threatened and likely won’t post stupid shit. Like you just did.

 

[Desperado]

Would have heeded the advice of the late former Congressman Charlie Wilson.

Why he is the shithead that got us involved there in the first place

 

[Rigby5]

How many years have we been in Japan. Germany, South Korea. We were doing just fine keeping the peace with 2,500 people. Have a permanent base. Who knows maybe someday Afghanistan might develop a functioning government.

We did not at all improve Japan, Germany, or South Korea by leaving troops there.
The local populations deeply resent it and want them gone.
It is all just profits, intimidation, politics, etc., and serves absolutely no military or practical purpose.
All it would do is force the US to join into any war that would break out in any of these areas, since it would mean the death of any US soldiers stationed there. And we should not want anything to automatically force us into any war.

 

[Rigby5]

You believe the Taliban? OMG!

The Taliban has a clear record for honesty far more than the US ever had.
We lie about almost everything.
In fact, the Taliban likely are the most honest government that ever existed.

People likely are getting al Qaeda and Taliban mixed up.
The Taliban are honorable Pashtun clerics and idealistic students.
The Arab Saudis of al Qaeda are terrorist the CIA forced on the Mujahedeen even though they have long standing mutual hatred.