CDZ What would American Culture Be Without Black People?

[Liminal]

The United States Census of 1860 was the eighth Census conducted in the United States starting June 1, 1860 and lasting five months. It determined the population of the United States to be 31,443,321, an increase of 35.4 percent over the 23,191,875 persons enumerated during the 1850 Census. The total population included 3,953,761 slaves, representing 12.6% of the total population.

Interesting that the black % of the total population has remained almost stagnant since the Civil War.

You surprise me, you did actually post some interesting facts. I'm not sure exactly how those facts relate to the premise of the thread, but interesting none the less.

 

[eots]

b

You mean instruments like the banjo?

I was thinking more like the saxophone and the trombone.


These instruments came from classic music and were used to make jazz music.

This is, in a very basic way, European influence on Jazz.

As I said.

h huh. Did you also know that Europeans had iron and steel tools? So it's almost just like they invented the Ford F-150......in a very basic way.

The materials and tools available are important factors in what an artist can do.

Do you know why the Ancient Egyptians were so big on bas reliefs? Because the crappy stone they had was to weak to support free standing statues.

Left in African, African musicians would never have learned to play the sax. Because they would not have had that sax.

What ever point you think you're making, you haven't made it.

This topic is a stretch for me, I am not well versed in music.

But the idea that black culture is the only part of American culture that is vibrant and good?

That's absolute nonsense.

Dat whyatt boi got flow

 

[Correll]

You don't see a connection between musical instruments and music?

Really?

Europeans didn't have rhythm before Africans? Or beat? Can you support that claim?

Like you said already, you really don't know enough about music to comment.

I'm doing ok despite that.

Please support your claim that Europeans did not have rhythm or beat before being exposed to African music.

Despite what are apparently your best efforts, you haven't succeeded in minimizing or trivializing African American contributions to American culture.

Good. For I have no intentions of minimizing or trivializing Black contributions to American culture.

It is you who is trying to exaggerate their contributions to the point that without them, American culture would be "lifeless, colorless".

I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Europeans didn't have rhythm or beat before African influence.

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Without black people, US culture would be like a big white trash-filled trailer park.

 

[Liminal]

Like you said already, you really don't know enough about music to comment.

I'm doing ok despite that.

Please support your claim that Europeans did not have rhythm or beat before being exposed to African music.

Despite what are apparently your best efforts, you haven't succeeded in minimizing or trivializing African American contributions to American culture.

Good. For I have no intentions of minimizing or trivializing Black contributions to American culture.

It is you who is trying to exaggerate their contributions to the point that without them, American culture would be "lifeless, colorless".

I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Europeans didn't have rhythm or beat before African influence.

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

 

[Correll]

I'm doing ok despite that.

Please support your claim that Europeans did not have rhythm or beat before being exposed to African music.

Despite what are apparently your best efforts, you haven't succeeded in minimizing or trivializing African American contributions to American culture.

Good. For I have no intentions of minimizing or trivializing Black contributions to American culture.

It is you who is trying to exaggerate their contributions to the point that without them, American culture would be "lifeless, colorless".

I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Europeans didn't have rhythm or beat before African influence.

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

 

[Liminal]

Despite what are apparently your best efforts, you haven't succeeded in minimizing or trivializing African American contributions to American culture.

Good. For I have no intentions of minimizing or trivializing Black contributions to American culture.

It is you who is trying to exaggerate their contributions to the point that without them, American culture would be "lifeless, colorless".

I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Europeans didn't have rhythm or beat before African influence.

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

You've convinced me, I don't know why I didn't see it before. If you listen carefully you can absolutely hear the classical roots of African American music. Listen to how this one sounds so much like Bach's "The Inventions of Sinfonias."

Pharrell Williams - Happy

 

[Correll]

Good. For I have no intentions of minimizing or trivializing Black contributions to American culture.

It is you who is trying to exaggerate their contributions to the point that without them, American culture would be "lifeless, colorless".

I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Europeans didn't have rhythm or beat before African influence.

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

You've convinced me, I don't know why I didn't see it before. If you listen carefully you can absolutely hear the classical roots of African American music. Listen to how this one sounds so much like Bach's "The Inventions of Sinfonias."

Pharrell Williams - Happy

You didn't answer the question.

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

 

[Liminal]

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

You've convinced me, I don't know why I didn't see it before. If you listen carefully you can absolutely hear the classical roots of African American music. Listen to how this one sounds so much like Bach's "The Inventions of Sinfonias."

Pharrell Williams - Happy

You didn't answer the question.

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

Why don't you go to Wikipedia real fast so you can tell me about it.

 

[eots]

Why don't you feel free to tell me all about the European rhythms and beats that have influenced American music. Your argument needs a premise.

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

You've convinced me, I don't know why I didn't see it before. If you listen carefully you can absolutely hear the classical roots of African American music. Listen to how this one sounds so much like Bach's "The Inventions of Sinfonias."

Pharrell Williams - Happy

You didn't answer the question.

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

A Friend o mine....GREAT SONG !

 

[eots]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

 

[Liminal]

If you really listen you can hear the direct musical lineage between Beethoven and the Chambers Brothers.

 

[Correll]

I had some difficulty finding anything informative on this.

NOt because it was not there, but because source after source just mentioned it, ie that jazz was the result of African and Classical European music, and then moved on to whatever point they were trying to make, ie that Creole music played a part, or that Cuban music played a part.

You are asking for a piece of information that is generally assumed to be a given.

BUT, I did find this for a start.

how did classical music influence jazz music Yahoo Answers


"Best Answer:Jake is correct: jazz harmonies first appeared in the work of romantic and impressionistic composers. And those composers built all of their music (as does jazz) on the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach."

And.

"Though I am no specialist I find the question interesting.

I would start by watching the tools, the musical instruments that are currently used in both classic and jazz music. The most obvious I can think of is the piano. Two features in playing the piano : rhythm is given by the left hand and melody by the right hand. This holds true in both classical and jazz music.

What about musical formation , You can find quartets and quintets in both classic and jazz music. There must be a lead instrument : for example flute in classic and saxophone in jazz. There has to be bass too, which holds true in bithe musical genres.

There are orchestras, to play classical symphonies and standards in jazz. "


I assume you will dismiss this for some reason. I will keep looking.

I understand you have a preoccupation with tools.

Seriously? That's your answer?

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

You've convinced me, I don't know why I didn't see it before. If you listen carefully you can absolutely hear the classical roots of African American music. Listen to how this one sounds so much like Bach's "The Inventions of Sinfonias."

Pharrell Williams - Happy

You didn't answer the question.

Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

Why don't you go to Wikipedia real fast so you can tell me about it.

That didn't answer my question,n either.

The OP is yours. You must seem to think it worth discussing. I'm on topic. Why are you not answering a simple yes or no question?


Do you know what the twelve-key system invented by famous Baroque composer J.S. Bach even is?

 

[Correll]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

 

[eots]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

On the historical and political side ,business end of it all there was a time the colored man did not get his due and sometimes still there is not a full recognition of the lasting influence of many black artist on all styles of modern music..so I am cuting some slack

 

[Correll]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

On the historical and political side ,business end of it all there was a time the colored man did not get his due and sometimes still there is not a full recognition of the lasting influence of many black artist on all styles of modern music..so I am cuting some slack

So, you know he is wrong, but you are cutting him slack because he is black?

Ok. Thanks for your honestly on that.

Do you mind if I call him on his bs?

 

[eots]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

On the historical and political side ,business end of it all there was a time the colored man did not get his due and sometimes still there is not a full recognition of the lasting influence of many black artist on all styles of modern music..so I am cuting some slack

So, you know he is wrong, but you are cutting him slack because he is black?

Ok. Thanks for your honestly on that.

Do you mind if I call him on his bs?

No nothing to do with him really he is obtaining slack by proxy for great artist I would encourage to be remembered....lol

 

[eots]

In the long run However I think it has all worked out great music has never been interesting and diverse and available than now..amazing times

 

[Correll]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

On the historical and political side ,business end of it all there was a time the colored man did not get his due and sometimes still there is not a full recognition of the lasting influence of many black artist on all styles of modern music..so I am cuting some slack

So, you know he is wrong, but you are cutting him slack because he is black?

Ok. Thanks for your honestly on that.

Do you mind if I call him on his bs?

No nothing to do with him really he is obtaining slack by proxy for great artist I would encourage to be remembered....lol

Fostering cultural bigotry on the behalf of blacks is not doing them any favors.

 

[eots]

Most musicians wouldn't have this conversation they would just start jamming, learning from each other regardless of race and bonding over the shared love of music and appreciating what each indivdual brings to the table

True.

Limner wants to deny/minimize the contribution of Whites to American culture though. Thus this thread.

I don't know if Limner is a musician.

He is doing the opposite of what you describe. He is trying to DIVIDE the races, to make music into a racial and partisan conflict.

Considering your posts, it is odd you aren't going after him on this.

On the historical and political side ,business end of it all there was a time the colored man did not get his due and sometimes still there is not a full recognition of the lasting influence of many black artist on all styles of modern music..so I am cuting some slack

So, you know he is wrong, but you are cutting him slack because he is black?

Ok. Thanks for your honestly on that.

Do you mind if I call him on his bs?

No nothing to do with him really he is obtaining slack by proxy for great artist I would encourage to be remembered....lol

Fostering cultural bigotry on the behalf of blacks is not doing them any favors.

you never jam with people either do you...