What would America look like without any socialism?

HUGGY said:
Lakhota said:
It's difficult for me to visualize. Maybe some of you can help me see it...
Click to expand...

It would be a lot smaller. We would have lost to Japan and Germany..probably Italy also. We definitely wouldn't be speaking English. There would be no Jewish people here or anywhere.
Click to expand...

So point out the one institution that The Constitution does allow for the gov't to control... the military.

Nice job Huggy :lol:
 
Lakhota said:
It's difficult for me to visualize. Maybe some of you can help me see it...
Click to expand...

Fewer interstates = less pollution
smaller population since everyone would need to care for the kids they have
smaller cities
more small town
lower national debt and def = more powerful dollar
everyone would have to work, or get food from charities, who would only help the needy
and so on


We would be the greatest nation on earth, like before FDR
 
bripat9643 said:
Quantum Windbag said:
Saigon said:
It doesn't matter who built it, dude - it is run as a socialist system.

In a non-socialist system, electricity would be produced entirely by private companies with no involvement from the state. No funding, no subsidies, and no govt interference.
Click to expand...

Why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of socialism? Just because the government is involved in something does not make it socialist.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it pretty much does. It's socialist to the degree that the government is involved.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. It is only socialist if the government is involved in the economy, and even then it isn't always socialist. There are things the government has to do because, without the government, it wouldn't work.
 
The Infidel said:
HUGGY said:
Lakhota said:
It's difficult for me to visualize. Maybe some of you can help me see it...
Click to expand...

It would be a lot smaller. We would have lost to Japan and Germany..probably Italy also. We definitely wouldn't be speaking English. There would be no Jewish people here or anywhere.
Click to expand...

So point out the one institution that The Constitution does allow for the gov't to control... the military.

Nice job Huggy :lol:
Click to expand...

I didn't say we would not have been in WWII. I said we would have lost that war.
 
Lakhota said:
What would America look like without any socialism?
Click to expand...

led20zeppelin20stairway20to20heaven.jpg
 
The Confederate States would have conquered Mexico, the Caribean and Central America. Probably would have allied with Germany in WWI and the remaining United States would have been broken up like the Ottoman Empire.
 
BlindBoo said:
The Confederate States would have conquered Mexico, the Caribean and Central America. Probably would have allied with Germany in WWI and the remaining United States would have been broken up like the Ottoman Empire.
Click to expand...

That's actually possible.


bit of a stretch with all that warring, since the South had so little manufacturing, and taken on so much territory would have caused war with a number of EU countries.

And the people with connections to Germany mostly live in the North.

so yes, that's actually possible, if you haven't changed out the bong water in a long long time.

:lol:
 
 
----------------Government more efficient.
11 (1=2)

Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.

Daily Kos: How frickin' typical. Rotten right-wing idea
^In Arizona the private prison industry cost as much as 1,600 more than the public prison industry.
^Not only that but private prisons see more riots, more human rights abuses, and worse off conditions for workers.

http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^Private prisons compensated their workers 5% less then public prisons.

Private Prison Promises Leave Texas Towns In Trouble : NPR
CPI Inflation Calculator
http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^In America if all private prisons were socialized it would save the country 20 billion dollars over 10 years and would also increase the workers compensation by 5%.

-----------Insurance

http://www.genevaassociation.org/pdf/News/2011GlobalInsuranceIndustryFactsheet.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly

http://insurance.mo.gov/reports/lossratio/index.htm
^National loss percentages for insurance.
Work comp/disaster (unemployment) has a loss percentage of 33%
Home owners insurance has a loss percentage of 40%
(Has around a dozen different types of insurances and their loss ratios.)
^
http://www.coffi.org/pubs/Summaries/NFIP Summary revised Sept 26 2005-1.pdf
^The federal flood insurance (home insurance) program runs administrative costs at around
7%.
^
Budget
^Administrative costs for government unemployment insurance (workers comp) is less than 5%.

------------Insurance

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.

| U.S. PIRG
Error Handler - PTC Challenge Magazine for Truckers, Truck Driving, and The Trucking Industry
---^Private roads cost more than public roads.
Due to:
1) Toll costs
2) Executive pay
3) Payments to stockholders
4) Administrative fees associated with installing tolls, raising capital, and production of new roads.

The Bush Republican Oversight Failure in Iraq
^Bush and republicans privatized non-military military services, in Iraq which led to corruption and overbilling. Around 20 Billion wasted in fraud.

------------------------SS

http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

The Perils of Privatization: Bush’s lethal plan for Social Security | Economic Policy Institute
Budget
=Social security administration fees are ~0%.
Private mutual fund administrative fees are over 1.5(~2.25) %
Social security administration fees are over 1.5(~2.25) % less (of total funds)

Dow Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Hellegers: American Income Inequality is the Cause of our Crisis | Informed Comment
Stock growth
V

^1940-2008 74590%
~2.25% administration fee lowers stock returns by ~225%
1940-2008 stock benefits returns 74365%

^Income growth
1940-2008 160360%
in 1940 45% of wages went to top 10%
in 2008 45% of wages went to top 10% (over 100,000)
these wages are not taxed for SS
160360% x .55(100%-45%)= 88198%

Total Social Security benefits from 1940-2008 was 20% higher than stock returns.

Trends in Mortality Differentials and Life Expectancy for Male Social Security–Covered Workers, by Average Relative Earnings
^The age were you can collect full social security benefits is already set to raise to 67.
^Life expectancy for people in the poorest half of earners has risen by 1 year in the past 30 years, while life expectancy for people in the richest half has increased by 7 years.
^Raising the retirement age would negatively affect the poorest workers a lot more than the richest workers.
^It is illogical to raise the poor’s retirement age just because the rich are experiencing an increase in their life expectancy.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11580/07-01-SSOptions_forWeb.pdf
^The SS short fall is around 0.7% of GDP

Social Security: The Elevator Pitch | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Myth of the Wealthy Elderly
^Eliminating the maximum tax on SS benefits would shore up SS finances and allow you to increase benefits by 0.3% of GDP (42 billion) for disabled people by 56%. Currently only 9million out of 33million disabled people receive disability insurance form SS. You would be able to expand disability insurance to another 9million if you doubled SS payroll taxes form income above 250,000

------------------SS

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

National Arbitration Forum Backs Off Consumer Arbitrations
Rights At Risk With Binding Mandatory Arbitration 9/28/07 | abc7news.com
Testimony
------------^In 1980s conservative supreme court rewrote federal law allowing special interest to do forced arbitrations.
Making it so consumers and the industry could only go to trial in privatized systems run by special interests.
^Examples of privatized court systems and forced arbitration:
---Special interests industries win over 95% of cases
---In one case a women was forced to pay 8,000 because someone else had the same name as her and owed the company money.
---One judge who ruled in favor of consumers once was immediacy removed from his judge position.
Public Citizen | Press Room - Arbitration More Expensive Than Court
^arbitration has 700% more administrative spending
^arbitrations also don't provide justice but instead corporate lawlessness
^arbitrations also charge fees that justice offers for free that equals 700%+ of admin costs
Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - PC rebuttal to industry's misleading statment on BMA report
^Arbitrations favor corporations by more than 25%
^In total the government justice department saves 50 billion a year.
^
Conservative Arbitration which granted corporations to become their own courts has allowed corporations to become above the law. Companies are immune from accountability if their actions result in the death or injury of a person. Any judge that handed down a verdict in favor of consumers was removed. People required to pay companies money that other people owed.
Court Deals Important Blow To Corporate Immunity | ThinkProgress
How Minnesota's AG Saved Consumers From the Credit Card Industry | ThinkProgress

Cities Under Siege: Katrina and the Politics of Metropolitan America
Myths & Facts About FEMA Housing Following Katrina - Democratic Underground
Katrina: Privatized bus contractor screws the pooch, while FEMA turns down volunteers! | Corrente
^FEMA privatization lead to the Katrina disaster; such as a late response, and sending victims trailers with hazardous levels of formaldehyde in them. Which ended up costing billions.

Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
^Privatization lead too and caused the Walter Reed fiasco, which lead to neglect and subpar services and treatment.

GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.
^
Which Colleges Leave Students With the Most Debt? - US News and World Report
^Senior students at private for profit colleges are 3 times as likely to have debt above 40,000 compared to public college’s seniors.

-----------------Government more efficient.

Ezra Klein - Should we nationalize the ratings agencies?
^why we should Nationalize rating agencies
1) Rating agencies were paid by the banks they rated.
2) Rating agencies had no incentive to rate accurately because the incentive is to make a profit.

Water Privatization Fails in Philippines
^Philippines water privatization fails. After privatization the companies sold water that was unsafe to drink.

New Zealand Electricity Deregulation
^New Zealand and California energy privatization leads to blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/bioliva
^Privatization of water services/utilities leads to water prices to skyrocket by 300%

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/international/2008/05/06-new-zealand-nationalisation.html
NZ re-socializes railroads

Shipping Rate Software | Shipping Cost Solution | Online Freight Quote | InterShipper.com
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080827/OPINION02/708279998
How to Choose a Shipping Carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx)
^USPS more efficient than private market.
^Fedex and UPS use USPS for shipping charging their customers more then what USPS charges and then using USPS for the shipping.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Picking on Cliff Clavin
^FEDX an UPS use the Post office to deliver their rural mail.

Use of outsourcing by state soars, audit shows - JSOnline
^In Wisconsin the state outsourcing of 125 construction engineering projects to private firms cost 1.2million dollars more than it would have cost if the state had just used government workers. These savings do not include the costs of the actual contracts.

Daily Kos: Private contractors cost more than federal workers in 33 of 35 cases, study finds
^In 95% of cases government workers are more efficient then private contractors.
^Private contractors cost more than 80% more than government workers on average.

----------------state bank

Progressive solutions to California's economic crisis | The Economic Populist
Solvency: how state-owned banks end interest costs on state debt ($5 billion/year for CA) - Los Angeles LA County Nonpartisan | Examiner.com
^North Dakotas state controlled bank returned 60 million dollars or $100 per person this year to the state’s general fund.
^The state owned bank is where the state and local governments deposit their money and is the financial entity that the governments borrow from. This means that the governments do not have to borrow from private banks, saving the government money.
^Also because the state bank can loan out money it allows North Dakota to essentially print money, which helps in it a liquidy trap and a demand caused recession.
^If every state had a state bank it would save over 40 billion dollars a year.

Guest Post: The Giant Banks Are ALREADY State-Sponsored … So Why Not Create Public Banks to at Least Share the Gains, Help Out Main Street, and Grow Our Local Economies? « naked capitalism
^If every state enacted a state Partnership bank similar to North Dakotas it would create over 500,000 jobs over a 3-5 year period.
^Not only that it would lower debt costs for governments and increase government revenue, expand small businesses, and over loan financing in tough economic times.

US Export-Import Bank Approves Energy Financing Support
^IN 2011 Americas Export-import bank approved 3.4billion in financing to support largely energy production exports, due to the depressed economy this would result in around 20,000 new jobs.

*The GOP eliminated the export import bank in 2012

Export-Import Bank of the United States to Establish Full-Time Presence in Atlanta, Detroit,... -- DETROIT, March 6, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --
^Over the period of 5 years the export-import bank reduced the deficit by 2billion
^The bank authorized 33billion dollars in export subsidies, helping maintain 300,000 jobs

-------------state bank
I coore post 10 more pages of this shit
 
----------------Government more efficient.
11 (1=2)

Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.

Daily Kos: How frickin' typical. Rotten right-wing idea
^In Arizona the private prison industry cost as much as 1,600 more than the public prison industry.
^Not only that but private prisons see more riots, more human rights abuses, and worse off conditions for workers.

http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^Private prisons compensated their workers 5% less then public prisons.

Private Prison Promises Leave Texas Towns In Trouble : NPR
CPI Inflation Calculator
http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^In America if all private prisons were socialized it would save the country 20 billion dollars over 10 years and would also increase the workers compensation by 5%.

-----------Insurance

http://www.genevaassociation.org/pdf/News/2011GlobalInsuranceIndustryFactsheet.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly

http://insurance.mo.gov/reports/lossratio/index.htm
^National loss percentages for insurance.
Work comp/disaster (unemployment) has a loss percentage of 33%
Home owners insurance has a loss percentage of 40%
(Has around a dozen different types of insurances and their loss ratios.)
^
http://www.coffi.org/pubs/Summaries/NFIP Summary revised Sept 26 2005-1.pdf
^The federal flood insurance (home insurance) program runs administrative costs at around
7%.
^
Budget
^Administrative costs for government unemployment insurance (workers comp) is less than 5%.

------------Insurance

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.

| U.S. PIRG
Error Handler - PTC Challenge Magazine for Truckers, Truck Driving, and The Trucking Industry
---^Private roads cost more than public roads.
Due to:
1) Toll costs
2) Executive pay
3) Payments to stockholders
4) Administrative fees associated with installing tolls, raising capital, and production of new roads.

The Bush Republican Oversight Failure in Iraq
^Bush and republicans privatized non-military military services, in Iraq which led to corruption and overbilling. Around 20 Billion wasted in fraud.

------------------------SS

http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

The Perils of Privatization: Bush’s lethal plan for Social Security | Economic Policy Institute
Budget
=Social security administration fees are ~0%.
Private mutual fund administrative fees are over 1.5(~2.25) %
Social security administration fees are over 1.5(~2.25) % less (of total funds)

Dow Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Hellegers: American Income Inequality is the Cause of our Crisis | Informed Comment
Stock growth
V

^1940-2008 74590%
~2.25% administration fee lowers stock returns by ~225%
1940-2008 stock benefits returns 74365%

^Income growth
1940-2008 160360%
in 1940 45% of wages went to top 10%
in 2008 45% of wages went to top 10% (over 100,000)
these wages are not taxed for SS
160360% x .55(100%-45%)= 88198%

Total Social Security benefits from 1940-2008 was 20% higher than stock returns.

Trends in Mortality Differentials and Life Expectancy for Male Social Security–Covered Workers, by Average Relative Earnings
^The age were you can collect full social security benefits is already set to raise to 67.
^Life expectancy for people in the poorest half of earners has risen by 1 year in the past 30 years, while life expectancy for people in the richest half has increased by 7 years.
^Raising the retirement age would negatively affect the poorest workers a lot more than the richest workers.
^It is illogical to raise the poor’s retirement age just because the rich are experiencing an increase in their life expectancy.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11580/07-01-SSOptions_forWeb.pdf
^The SS short fall is around 0.7% of GDP

Social Security: The Elevator Pitch | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Myth of the Wealthy Elderly
^Eliminating the maximum tax on SS benefits would shore up SS finances and allow you to increase benefits by 0.3% of GDP (42 billion) for disabled people by 56%. Currently only 9million out of 33million disabled people receive disability insurance form SS. You would be able to expand disability insurance to another 9million if you doubled SS payroll taxes form income above 250,000

------------------SS

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

National Arbitration Forum Backs Off Consumer Arbitrations
Rights At Risk With Binding Mandatory Arbitration 9/28/07 | abc7news.com
Testimony
------------^In 1980s conservative supreme court rewrote federal law allowing special interest to do forced arbitrations.
Making it so consumers and the industry could only go to trial in privatized systems run by special interests.
^Examples of privatized court systems and forced arbitration:
---Special interests industries win over 95% of cases
---In one case a women was forced to pay 8,000 because someone else had the same name as her and owed the company money.
---One judge who ruled in favor of consumers once was immediacy removed from his judge position.
Public Citizen | Press Room - Arbitration More Expensive Than Court
^arbitration has 700% more administrative spending
^arbitrations also don't provide justice but instead corporate lawlessness
^arbitrations also charge fees that justice offers for free that equals 700%+ of admin costs
Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - PC rebuttal to industry's misleading statment on BMA report
^Arbitrations favor corporations by more than 25%
^In total the government justice department saves 50 billion a year.
^
Conservative Arbitration which granted corporations to become their own courts has allowed corporations to become above the law. Companies are immune from accountability if their actions result in the death or injury of a person. Any judge that handed down a verdict in favor of consumers was removed. People required to pay companies money that other people owed.
Court Deals Important Blow To Corporate Immunity | ThinkProgress
How Minnesota's AG Saved Consumers From the Credit Card Industry | ThinkProgress

Cities Under Siege: Katrina and the Politics of Metropolitan America
Myths & Facts About FEMA Housing Following Katrina - Democratic Underground
Katrina: Privatized bus contractor screws the pooch, while FEMA turns down volunteers! | Corrente
^FEMA privatization lead to the Katrina disaster; such as a late response, and sending victims trailers with hazardous levels of formaldehyde in them. Which ended up costing billions.

Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
^Privatization lead too and caused the Walter Reed fiasco, which lead to neglect and subpar services and treatment.

GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.
^
Which Colleges Leave Students With the Most Debt? - US News and World Report
^Senior students at private for profit colleges are 3 times as likely to have debt above 40,000 compared to public college’s seniors.

-----------------Government more efficient.

Ezra Klein - Should we nationalize the ratings agencies?
^why we should Nationalize rating agencies
1) Rating agencies were paid by the banks they rated.
2) Rating agencies had no incentive to rate accurately because the incentive is to make a profit.

Water Privatization Fails in Philippines
^Philippines water privatization fails. After privatization the companies sold water that was unsafe to drink.

New Zealand Electricity Deregulation
^New Zealand and California energy privatization leads to blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/bioliva
^Privatization of water services/utilities leads to water prices to skyrocket by 300%

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/international/2008/05/06-new-zealand-nationalisation.html
NZ re-socializes railroads

Shipping Rate Software | Shipping Cost Solution | Online Freight Quote | InterShipper.com
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080827/OPINION02/708279998
How to Choose a Shipping Carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx)
^USPS more efficient than private market.
^Fedex and UPS use USPS for shipping charging their customers more then what USPS charges and then using USPS for the shipping.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Picking on Cliff Clavin
^FEDX an UPS use the Post office to deliver their rural mail.

Use of outsourcing by state soars, audit shows - JSOnline
^In Wisconsin the state outsourcing of 125 construction engineering projects to private firms cost 1.2million dollars more than it would have cost if the state had just used government workers. These savings do not include the costs of the actual contracts.

Daily Kos: Private contractors cost more than federal workers in 33 of 35 cases, study finds
^In 95% of cases government workers are more efficient then private contractors.
^Private contractors cost more than 80% more than government workers on average.

----------------state bank

Progressive solutions to California's economic crisis | The Economic Populist
Solvency: how state-owned banks end interest costs on state debt ($5 billion/year for CA) - Los Angeles LA County Nonpartisan | Examiner.com
^North Dakotas state controlled bank returned 60 million dollars or $100 per person this year to the state’s general fund.
^The state owned bank is where the state and local governments deposit their money and is the financial entity that the governments borrow from. This means that the governments do not have to borrow from private banks, saving the government money.
^Also because the state bank can loan out money it allows North Dakota to essentially print money, which helps in it a liquidy trap and a demand caused recession.
^If every state had a state bank it would save over 40 billion dollars a year.

Guest Post: The Giant Banks Are ALREADY State-Sponsored … So Why Not Create Public Banks to at Least Share the Gains, Help Out Main Street, and Grow Our Local Economies? « naked capitalism
^If every state enacted a state Partnership bank similar to North Dakotas it would create over 500,000 jobs over a 3-5 year period.
^Not only that it would lower debt costs for governments and increase government revenue, expand small businesses, and over loan financing in tough economic times.

US Export-Import Bank Approves Energy Financing Support
^IN 2011 Americas Export-import bank approved 3.4billion in financing to support largely energy production exports, due to the depressed economy this would result in around 20,000 new jobs.

*The GOP eliminated the export import bank in 2012

Export-Import Bank of the United States to Establish Full-Time Presence in Atlanta, Detroit,... -- DETROIT, March 6, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --
^Over the period of 5 years the export-import bank reduced the deficit by 2billion
^The bank authorized 33billion dollars in export subsidies, helping maintain 300,000 jobs

-------------state bank
I coore post 10 more pages of this shit
 
----------------Government more efficient.
11 (1=2)

Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.

Daily Kos: How frickin' typical. Rotten right-wing idea
^In Arizona the private prison industry cost as much as 1,600 more than the public prison industry.
^Not only that but private prisons see more riots, more human rights abuses, and worse off conditions for workers.

http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^Private prisons compensated their workers 5% less then public prisons.

Private Prison Promises Leave Texas Towns In Trouble : NPR
CPI Inflation Calculator
http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^In America if all private prisons were socialized it would save the country 20 billion dollars over 10 years and would also increase the workers compensation by 5%.

-----------Insurance

http://www.genevaassociation.org/pdf/News/2011GlobalInsuranceIndustryFactsheet.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly

http://insurance.mo.gov/reports/lossratio/index.htm
^National loss percentages for insurance.
Work comp/disaster (unemployment) has a loss percentage of 33%
Home owners insurance has a loss percentage of 40%
(Has around a dozen different types of insurances and their loss ratios.)
^
http://www.coffi.org/pubs/Summaries/NFIP Summary revised Sept 26 2005-1.pdf
^The federal flood insurance (home insurance) program runs administrative costs at around
7%.
^
Budget
^Administrative costs for government unemployment insurance (workers comp) is less than 5%.

------------Insurance

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.

| U.S. PIRG
Error Handler - PTC Challenge Magazine for Truckers, Truck Driving, and The Trucking Industry
---^Private roads cost more than public roads.
Due to:
1) Toll costs
2) Executive pay
3) Payments to stockholders
4) Administrative fees associated with installing tolls, raising capital, and production of new roads.

The Bush Republican Oversight Failure in Iraq
^Bush and republicans privatized non-military military services, in Iraq which led to corruption and overbilling. Around 20 Billion wasted in fraud.

------------------------SS

http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

The Perils of Privatization: Bush’s lethal plan for Social Security | Economic Policy Institute
Budget
=Social security administration fees are ~0%.
Private mutual fund administrative fees are over 1.5(~2.25) %
Social security administration fees are over 1.5(~2.25) % less (of total funds)

Dow Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Hellegers: American Income Inequality is the Cause of our Crisis | Informed Comment
Stock growth
V

^1940-2008 74590%
~2.25% administration fee lowers stock returns by ~225%
1940-2008 stock benefits returns 74365%

^Income growth
1940-2008 160360%
in 1940 45% of wages went to top 10%
in 2008 45% of wages went to top 10% (over 100,000)
these wages are not taxed for SS
160360% x .55(100%-45%)= 88198%

Total Social Security benefits from 1940-2008 was 20% higher than stock returns.

Trends in Mortality Differentials and Life Expectancy for Male Social Security–Covered Workers, by Average Relative Earnings
^The age were you can collect full social security benefits is already set to raise to 67.
^Life expectancy for people in the poorest half of earners has risen by 1 year in the past 30 years, while life expectancy for people in the richest half has increased by 7 years.
^Raising the retirement age would negatively affect the poorest workers a lot more than the richest workers.
^It is illogical to raise the poor’s retirement age just because the rich are experiencing an increase in their life expectancy.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11580/07-01-SSOptions_forWeb.pdf
^The SS short fall is around 0.7% of GDP

Social Security: The Elevator Pitch | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Myth of the Wealthy Elderly
^Eliminating the maximum tax on SS benefits would shore up SS finances and allow you to increase benefits by 0.3% of GDP (42 billion) for disabled people by 56%. Currently only 9million out of 33million disabled people receive disability insurance form SS. You would be able to expand disability insurance to another 9million if you doubled SS payroll taxes form income above 250,000

------------------SS

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

National Arbitration Forum Backs Off Consumer Arbitrations
Rights At Risk With Binding Mandatory Arbitration 9/28/07 | abc7news.com
Testimony
------------^In 1980s conservative supreme court rewrote federal law allowing special interest to do forced arbitrations.
Making it so consumers and the industry could only go to trial in privatized systems run by special interests.
^Examples of privatized court systems and forced arbitration:
---Special interests industries win over 95% of cases
---In one case a women was forced to pay 8,000 because someone else had the same name as her and owed the company money.
---One judge who ruled in favor of consumers once was immediacy removed from his judge position.
Public Citizen | Press Room - Arbitration More Expensive Than Court
^arbitration has 700% more administrative spending
^arbitrations also don't provide justice but instead corporate lawlessness
^arbitrations also charge fees that justice offers for free that equals 700%+ of admin costs
Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - PC rebuttal to industry's misleading statment on BMA report
^Arbitrations favor corporations by more than 25%
^In total the government justice department saves 50 billion a year.
^
Conservative Arbitration which granted corporations to become their own courts has allowed corporations to become above the law. Companies are immune from accountability if their actions result in the death or injury of a person. Any judge that handed down a verdict in favor of consumers was removed. People required to pay companies money that other people owed.
Court Deals Important Blow To Corporate Immunity | ThinkProgress
How Minnesota's AG Saved Consumers From the Credit Card Industry | ThinkProgress

Cities Under Siege: Katrina and the Politics of Metropolitan America
Myths & Facts About FEMA Housing Following Katrina - Democratic Underground
Katrina: Privatized bus contractor screws the pooch, while FEMA turns down volunteers! | Corrente
^FEMA privatization lead to the Katrina disaster; such as a late response, and sending victims trailers with hazardous levels of formaldehyde in them. Which ended up costing billions.

Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
^Privatization lead too and caused the Walter Reed fiasco, which lead to neglect and subpar services and treatment.

GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.
^
Which Colleges Leave Students With the Most Debt? - US News and World Report
^Senior students at private for profit colleges are 3 times as likely to have debt above 40,000 compared to public college’s seniors.

-----------------Government more efficient.

Ezra Klein - Should we nationalize the ratings agencies?
^why we should Nationalize rating agencies
1) Rating agencies were paid by the banks they rated.
2) Rating agencies had no incentive to rate accurately because the incentive is to make a profit.

Water Privatization Fails in Philippines
^Philippines water privatization fails. After privatization the companies sold water that was unsafe to drink.

New Zealand Electricity Deregulation
^New Zealand and California energy privatization leads to blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/bioliva
^Privatization of water services/utilities leads to water prices to skyrocket by 300%

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/international/2008/05/06-new-zealand-nationalisation.html
NZ re-socializes railroads

Shipping Rate Software | Shipping Cost Solution | Online Freight Quote | InterShipper.com
UPS uses USPS, so should you | HeraldNet.com - Letters
How to Choose a Shipping Carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx)
^USPS more efficient than private market.
^Fedex and UPS use USPS for shipping charging their customers more then what USPS charges and then using USPS for the shipping.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Picking on Cliff Clavin
^FEDX an UPS use the Post office to deliver their rural mail.

Use of outsourcing by state soars, audit shows - JSOnline
^In Wisconsin the state outsourcing of 125 construction engineering projects to private firms cost 1.2million dollars more than it would have cost if the state had just used government workers. These savings do not include the costs of the actual contracts.

Daily Kos: Private contractors cost more than federal workers in 33 of 35 cases, study finds
^In 95% of cases government workers are more efficient then private contractors.
^Private contractors cost more than 80% more than government workers on average.

----------------state bank

Progressive solutions to California's economic crisis | The Economic Populist
Solvency: how state-owned banks end interest costs on state debt ($5 billion/year for CA) - Los Angeles LA County Nonpartisan | Examiner.com
^North Dakotas state controlled bank returned 60 million dollars or $100 per person this year to the state’s general fund.
^The state owned bank is where the state and local governments deposit their money and is the financial entity that the governments borrow from. This means that the governments do not have to borrow from private banks, saving the government money.
^Also because the state bank can loan out money it allows North Dakota to essentially print money, which helps in it a liquidy trap and a demand caused recession.
^If every state had a state bank it would save over 40 billion dollars a year.

Guest Post: The Giant Banks Are ALREADY State-Sponsored … So Why Not Create Public Banks to at Least Share the Gains, Help Out Main Street, and Grow Our Local Economies? « naked capitalism
^If every state enacted a state Partnership bank similar to North Dakotas it would create over 500,000 jobs over a 3-5 year period.
^Not only that it would lower debt costs for governments and increase government revenue, expand small businesses, and over loan financing in tough economic times.

US Export-Import Bank Approves Energy Financing Support
^IN 2011 Americas Export-import bank approved 3.4billion in financing to support largely energy production exports, due to the depressed economy this would result in around 20,000 new jobs.

*The GOP eliminated the export import bank in 2012

Export-Import Bank of the United States to Establish Full-Time Presence in Atlanta, Detroit,... -- DETROIT, March 6, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --
^Over the period of 5 years the export-import bank reduced the deficit by 2billion
^The bank authorized 33billion dollars in export subsidies, helping maintain 300,000 jobs

-------------state bank
I could post 10 more pages of this shit
 
----------------Government more efficient.
11 (1=2)

Workers Comp Scandals in other States
^Privatization of workers comp in California results in workers comp costs increasing to above 166% of the national median.

BBC News - Ken Clarke privatises Birmingham Prison amid union fury
^In UK privatized prisons cost 5% more even though private prisons don't provide workers with adequate benefits or pay.

Daily Kos: How frickin' typical. Rotten right-wing idea
^In Arizona the private prison industry cost as much as 1,600 more than the public prison industry.
^Not only that but private prisons see more riots, more human rights abuses, and worse off conditions for workers.

http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^Private prisons compensated their workers 5% less then public prisons.

Private Prison Promises Leave Texas Towns In Trouble : NPR
CPI Inflation Calculator
http://www.afscme.org/news-publications/publications/privatization/pdf/Prison-1.pdf
^In America if all private prisons were socialized it would save the country 20 billion dollars over 10 years and would also increase the workers compensation by 5%.

-----------Insurance

http://www.genevaassociation.org/pdf/News/2011GlobalInsuranceIndustryFactsheet.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/opub/focus/volume2_number12/cex_2_12.pdf
The Real Costs of Car Ownership Calculator
^Socializing life insurance alone would save America 250billion yearly
^Socializing car insurance/home/and all others minus health care would save 200 billion
^Socializing all insurance minus health care would save almost 500billion dollars yearly

http://insurance.mo.gov/reports/lossratio/index.htm
^National loss percentages for insurance.
Work comp/disaster (unemployment) has a loss percentage of 33%
Home owners insurance has a loss percentage of 40%
(Has around a dozen different types of insurances and their loss ratios.)
^
http://www.coffi.org/pubs/Summaries/NFIP Summary revised Sept 26 2005-1.pdf
^The federal flood insurance (home insurance) program runs administrative costs at around
7%.
^
Budget
^Administrative costs for government unemployment insurance (workers comp) is less than 5%.

------------Insurance

Privatization During an Economic Downturn: Still Inefficient and Problematic | Progressive States Network
^Privatization of parking and parking meters resulted in an increase in costs by 240%

2009 New Jersey Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia
--^New Jerseys DMV privatization failed, socialization made it better Privatized DMV leads to poor service, under paid employees, a lack of anti-fraud policies, and long wait times/lines.

| U.S. PIRG
Error Handler - PTC Challenge Magazine for Truckers, Truck Driving, and The Trucking Industry
---^Private roads cost more than public roads.
Due to:
1) Toll costs
2) Executive pay
3) Payments to stockholders
4) Administrative fees associated with installing tolls, raising capital, and production of new roads.

The Bush Republican Oversight Failure in Iraq
^Bush and republicans privatized non-military military services, in Iraq which led to corruption and overbilling. Around 20 Billion wasted in fraud.

------------------------SS

http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

You’re in good hands with Social Security: But Privatization Proposals Would Unravel Its Ability to Insure Against Loss of Income, Disability, and Death | Economic Policy Institute
^SS keeps 39% of the elderly out of poverty
^SS returns are 26% higher than private alternatives

The Perils of Privatization: Bush’s lethal plan for Social Security | Economic Policy Institute
Budget
=Social security administration fees are ~0%.
Private mutual fund administrative fees are over 1.5(~2.25) %
Social security administration fees are over 1.5(~2.25) % less (of total funds)

Dow Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com
U.S. Department of Commerce. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Hellegers: American Income Inequality is the Cause of our Crisis | Informed Comment
Stock growth
V

^1940-2008 74590%
~2.25% administration fee lowers stock returns by ~225%
1940-2008 stock benefits returns 74365%

^Income growth
1940-2008 160360%
in 1940 45% of wages went to top 10%
in 2008 45% of wages went to top 10% (over 100,000)
these wages are not taxed for SS
160360% x .55(100%-45%)= 88198%

Total Social Security benefits from 1940-2008 was 20% higher than stock returns.

Trends in Mortality Differentials and Life Expectancy for Male Social Security–Covered Workers, by Average Relative Earnings
^The age were you can collect full social security benefits is already set to raise to 67.
^Life expectancy for people in the poorest half of earners has risen by 1 year in the past 30 years, while life expectancy for people in the richest half has increased by 7 years.
^Raising the retirement age would negatively affect the poorest workers a lot more than the richest workers.
^It is illogical to raise the poor’s retirement age just because the rich are experiencing an increase in their life expectancy.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11580/07-01-SSOptions_forWeb.pdf
^The SS short fall is around 0.7% of GDP

Social Security: The Elevator Pitch | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Myth of the Wealthy Elderly
^Eliminating the maximum tax on SS benefits would shore up SS finances and allow you to increase benefits by 0.3% of GDP (42 billion) for disabled people by 56%. Currently only 9million out of 33million disabled people receive disability insurance form SS. You would be able to expand disability insurance to another 9million if you doubled SS payroll taxes form income above 250,000

------------------SS

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home
Disagreeing With Dignan: The Politics Of Poverty And Welfare | Alas, a Blog
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/dont-donate-money-to-charity.html
^---Government welfare is around 3 times more efficient than private charity.
^Average charity has administration costs of 30% compared to 5% for government
^Americans spend around 300 billion a year on charity. If government were to become the only "charity" than Americas would save around 75 billion dollars a year.

National Arbitration Forum Backs Off Consumer Arbitrations
Rights At Risk With Binding Mandatory Arbitration 9/28/07 | abc7news.com
Testimony
------------^In 1980s conservative supreme court rewrote federal law allowing special interest to do forced arbitrations.
Making it so consumers and the industry could only go to trial in privatized systems run by special interests.
^Examples of privatized court systems and forced arbitration:
---Special interests industries win over 95% of cases
---In one case a women was forced to pay 8,000 because someone else had the same name as her and owed the company money.
---One judge who ruled in favor of consumers once was immediacy removed from his judge position.
Public Citizen | Press Room - Arbitration More Expensive Than Court
^arbitration has 700% more administrative spending
^arbitrations also don't provide justice but instead corporate lawlessness
^arbitrations also charge fees that justice offers for free that equals 700%+ of admin costs
Public Citizen | Congress Watch | Congress Watch - PC rebuttal to industry's misleading statment on BMA report
^Arbitrations favor corporations by more than 25%
^In total the government justice department saves 50 billion a year.
^
Conservative Arbitration which granted corporations to become their own courts has allowed corporations to become above the law. Companies are immune from accountability if their actions result in the death or injury of a person. Any judge that handed down a verdict in favor of consumers was removed. People required to pay companies money that other people owed.
Court Deals Important Blow To Corporate Immunity | ThinkProgress
How Minnesota's AG Saved Consumers From the Credit Card Industry | ThinkProgress

Cities Under Siege: Katrina and the Politics of Metropolitan America
Myths & Facts About FEMA Housing Following Katrina - Democratic Underground
Katrina: Privatized bus contractor screws the pooch, while FEMA turns down volunteers! | Corrente
^FEMA privatization lead to the Katrina disaster; such as a late response, and sending victims trailers with hazardous levels of formaldehyde in them. Which ended up costing billions.

Committee subpoenas former Walter Reed chief - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times
^Privatization lead too and caused the Walter Reed fiasco, which lead to neglect and subpar services and treatment.

GOP Defends Higher Education Profiteers As They Line Their Pockets With Taxpayer Dollars | ThinkProgress
---^Private for profit colleges have a graduation rate of 22% compared to 55% at state colleges. For profit colleges account for 26% of federal student loans while accounting for 43% of defaults. For profit colleges are also lining their pockets paying themselves tens of millions in compensation.
^
Which Colleges Leave Students With the Most Debt? - US News and World Report
^Senior students at private for profit colleges are 3 times as likely to have debt above 40,000 compared to public college’s seniors.

-----------------Government more efficient.

Ezra Klein - Should we nationalize the ratings agencies?
^why we should Nationalize rating agencies
1) Rating agencies were paid by the banks they rated.
2) Rating agencies had no incentive to rate accurately because the incentive is to make a profit.

Water Privatization Fails in Philippines
^Philippines water privatization fails. After privatization the companies sold water that was unsafe to drink.

New Zealand Electricity Deregulation
^New Zealand and California energy privatization leads to blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/bioliva
^Privatization of water services/utilities leads to water prices to skyrocket by 300%

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/international/2008/05/06-new-zealand-nationalisation.html
NZ re-socializes railroads

Shipping Rate Software | Shipping Cost Solution | Online Freight Quote | InterShipper.com
UPS uses USPS, so should you | HeraldNet.com - Letters
How to Choose a Shipping Carrier (USPS, UPS, FedEx)
^USPS more efficient than private market.
^Fedex and UPS use USPS for shipping charging their customers more then what USPS charges and then using USPS for the shipping.

FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Picking on Cliff Clavin
^FEDX an UPS use the Post office to deliver their rural mail.

Use of outsourcing by state soars, audit shows - JSOnline
^In Wisconsin the state outsourcing of 125 construction engineering projects to private firms cost 1.2million dollars more than it would have cost if the state had just used government workers. These savings do not include the costs of the actual contracts.

Daily Kos: Private contractors cost more than federal workers in 33 of 35 cases, study finds
^In 95% of cases government workers are more efficient then private contractors.
^Private contractors cost more than 80% more than government workers on average.

----------------state bank

Progressive solutions to California's economic crisis | The Economic Populist
Solvency: how state-owned banks end interest costs on state debt ($5 billion/year for CA) - Los Angeles LA County Nonpartisan | Examiner.com
^North Dakotas state controlled bank returned 60 million dollars or $100 per person this year to the state’s general fund.
^The state owned bank is where the state and local governments deposit their money and is the financial entity that the governments borrow from. This means that the governments do not have to borrow from private banks, saving the government money.
^Also because the state bank can loan out money it allows North Dakota to essentially print money, which helps in it a liquidy trap and a demand caused recession.
^If every state had a state bank it would save over 40 billion dollars a year.

Guest Post: The Giant Banks Are ALREADY State-Sponsored … So Why Not Create Public Banks to at Least Share the Gains, Help Out Main Street, and Grow Our Local Economies? « naked capitalism
^If every state enacted a state Partnership bank similar to North Dakotas it would create over 500,000 jobs over a 3-5 year period.
^Not only that it would lower debt costs for governments and increase government revenue, expand small businesses, and over loan financing in tough economic times.

US Export-Import Bank Approves Energy Financing Support
^IN 2011 Americas Export-import bank approved 3.4billion in financing to support largely energy production exports, due to the depressed economy this would result in around 20,000 new jobs.

*The GOP eliminated the export import bank in 2012

Export-Import Bank of the United States to Establish Full-Time Presence in Atlanta, Detroit,... -- DETROIT, March 6, 2012 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --
^Over the period of 5 years the export-import bank reduced the deficit by 2billion
^The bank authorized 33billion dollars in export subsidies, helping maintain 300,000 jobs

-------------state bank
I could post 10 more pages of this shit
 
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