What was our greatest strategic error in WWII and what woukd you have done?

[bendog]

Strategically, why didn't we find a way to accommodate Japan's real needs to expand its base territory and economy in response to the Depression and a population that was uncontrolled by birth control? Why would educated Germans buy into a need to believe in racial superiority giving them a right to conquer and rule other societies?

So who's land should we have stolen and then give to Japan? China was more than large enough for Japan, they were just intent on accumulating an empire filled with 'inferior' slaves, and such imperialism is never satisfied.

As for Germany, the whole 'Aryan Uber Man' thing started in the 1870's, with a newly unified Germany and an Emperor who wanted to build a common ethnic national identity built around 'German race and culture', not so very different than what France and England and other European countries already had had for centuries. Even Max Weber was a member of one of the early groups promoting that.

Well, the Japanese did end up commercially dominating the far east up until the 1990s or so. Is there some surprise the European colonialists were dislike, or that Vietnman was a misadventure.

And yes, WWII was in many ways a continuation of WWI, and a failure of TR and Wilson.

And family planning was known before 1941, but not routinely practiced.

But, my question was whether the thread was about strategic interests, as John Toland and Barbara Tuchmann wrote about. Or whether Patton could have reached Berlin in the Winter of 44.

If its about stuff like that, I'd say our biggest failure was not mounting the cross channel invasion in 1943.

 

[bodecea]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

MacArthur leaving all the planes in nice neat rows in the Philippines even AFTER he heard about Pearl Harbor...that rates right up there.

 

[bendog]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

MacArthur leaving all the planes in nice neat rows in the Philippines even AFTER he heard about Pearl Harbor...that rates right up there.

True. And not moving supplies to Bataan earlier. More racism and believing the Japanese were less capable.

 

[rightwinger]

We never should have listened to Gen MacArthur after he lost the Philippines

 

[Rikurzhen]

Two big strategic mistakes were the low priority in the European Theater given to destroying Germany's oil production infrastructure early in the war. Priority increased somewhat in 1944. In the Pacific Theater, the Japanese conquest of Balikpapan and other Indonesian oil fields was uncontested by America. The Japanese started the war with only a 1.5 year supply of oil stockpiled on their home islands.

Destroying stockpiles and production/refining/distribution infrastructure should have been Mission #1 early in the game, even if it meant inserting small commando teams with a sub. A war of resource attrition early in the war would have altered the course of events later in the war for territory.

 

[Picaro]

Two big strategic mistakes were the low priority in the European Theater given to destroying Germany's oil production infrastructure early in the war. Priority increased somewhat in 1944. In the Pacific Theater, the Japanese conquest of Balikpapan and other Indonesian oil fields was uncontested by America. The Japanese started the war with only a 1.5 year supply of oil stockpiled on their home islands.

An interesting side note to this was the Japanese put almost the entire pool of experienced and skilled oil field and refinery techs they could spare from the mainland onto one one ship, about 1,000 or so, heading for the recently conquered fields they took from the English and Dutch, I forget which Island in the East Indies it was at the moment; a U.S. sub managed to sink it, with a loss to Japan of over 800 of them. That was a loss they couldn't replace quickly, and seriously reduced their own capacities.

 

[gipper]

Biggest error in WWII. There were so many....too many to outline here...but here are a few.

We should never have gotten into the war in the first place. Had Americans not re-elected that fool and Stalin tool FDR, we likely would have avoided the war.

Another big mistake was the dropping to those two nasty bombs on a beaten and defenseless nation, killing innocent women, child, and old men purely to impress Stalin and the world...and thanks to Truman's terribly racist view of the Japanese.

Then the foolish island hopping campaign in Pacific, that resulted in lots of dead American boys, for nothing other than for making a name for the generals and admirals.

Add to all this the outrageous military material given to the stinking commies, while our men were not properly supplied early in the war...

Then the terrible aerial bombing of Germany and Japan, killing scores of innocents.

There are just too many mistakes.....but FDR's sycophantic adherence to assisting at all costs, histories most murderous dictator, has to be near the top.

War is always the health of the state...when will we ever learn?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Biggest error in WWII. There were so many....too many to outline here...but here are a few.

We should never have gotten into the war in the first place. Had Americans not re-elected that fool and Stalin tool FDR, we likely would have avoided the war.

Another big mistake was the dropping to those two nasty bombs on a beaten and defenseless nation, killing innocent women, child, and old men purely to impress Stalin and the world...and thanks to Truman's terribly racist view of the Japanese.

Then the foolish island hopping campaign in Pacific, that resulted in lots of dead American boys, for nothing other than for making a name for the generals and admirals.

Add to all this the outrageous military material given to the stinking commies, while our men were not properly supplied early in the war...

Then the terrible aerial bombing of Germany and Japan, killing scores of innocents.

There are just too many mistakes.....but FDR's sycophantic adherence to assisting at all costs, histories most murderous dictator, has to be near the top.

War is always the health of the state...when will we ever learn?

Excellent post.

 

[whitehall]

We lost 3,000 at Pearl Harbor but we lost 20,000 KIA during the Battle of the Bulge. The 3rd Army intelligence predicted a major offensive. ULTRA code breakers predicted a major offensive. Massive German withdraw from the Russian Front was noted but nothing was done. Allies had air superiority but lax Air recon failed to note 400 German tanks, 300 other tracked vehicles, 1,500 artillery pieces and 8 infantry divisions massed for an offensive. It was the worst tactical error of the war.

 

[Toronado3800]

Excellent post.

What are u 2 thinking? The Soviets could have handled the Germans? Maybe. The December 1941 counter offensive pushed the Germans back but I dunno. By 43 a good number of Germans were guarding France and the Brits just were not going to land in force in France. Plus EVENTUALLY Hitler was bound to get them bomb. Well if he could keep from chasing "undesireable" scientists out of his country.

While I may have donated Germany to the Russians after the war (as I would give them Afghanistan in 1985 given hindsight!), I'm not sure what a Russian occupied or liberated France would have been like. If Hitler did not get the bomb.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Excellent post.

What are u 2 thinking? The Soviets could have handled the Germans? Maybe. The December 1941 counter offensive pushed the Germans back but I dunno. By 43 a good number of Germans were guarding France and the Brits just were not going to land in force in France. Plus EVENTUALLY Hitler was bound to get them bomb. Well if he could keep from chasing "undesireable" scientists out of his country.

While I may have donated Germany to the Russians after the war (as I would give them Afghanistan in 1985 given hindsight!), I'm not sure what a Russian occupied or liberated France would have been like. If Hitler did not get the bomb.

When you see a liberal having a battle with a feminist, you don't jump in and take a side, you let the battle continue on for a long time, watch as they bloody each other, watch as one limps to victory, and that's when you jump in and kick some ass.

Nazis versus Communists - let them go at each other's throats then take on the winner.

 

[Toronado3800]

When you see a liberal having a battle with a feminist, you don't jump in and take a side, you let the battle continue on for a long time, watch as they bloody each other, watch as one limps to victory, and that's when you jump in and kick some ass.

Nazis versus Communists - let them go at each other's throats then take on the winner.

I understand the sentiment. Stalin was a monster.

In much the same conservative manner Reagan liberally bailed out the savings in loans I am not sure I could have taken that chance.

What if it is December 1946 and Stalin owned Europe except for Normandy where the British just landed? Man we wouod have been fighting an uphill battle in a hot war then or cold war.

Also consider the problem of filully mobilizing the population in 42....MAYBE you could do it against just Japan. W/O the European war whe could we have gotten Japan by? A year and a half sooner? Spring of 44? Then we try transferring all to Britian slowly I guess to land in France in 45 and fight Germans or liberate the end of the Germans who were fighting the Red Army on their Polish border?

Just sounds too complicated. Plus with today's knowledge of history we can guess how long the Soviets and Germans would have went at it. Roosevelt couldn't have gambled the NAZI's were not going to get to the Urals in 42 and being their own impossible nut to crack.

 

[Rikurzhen]

When you see a liberal having a battle with a feminist, you don't jump in and take a side, you let the battle continue on for a long time, watch as they bloody each other, watch as one limps to victory, and that's when you jump in and kick some ass.

Nazis versus Communists - let them go at each other's throats then take on the winner.

I understand the sentiment. Stalin was a monster.

In much the same conservative manner Reagan liberally bailed out the savings in loans I am not sure I could have taken that chance.

What if it is December 1946 and Stalin owned Europe except for Normandy where the British just landed? Man we wouod have been fighting an uphill battle in a hot war then or cold war.

Also consider the problem of filully mobilizing the population in 42....MAYBE you could do it against just Japan. W/O the European war whe could we have gotten Japan by? A year and a half sooner? Spring of 44? Then we try transferring all to Britian slowly I guess to land in France in 45 and fight Germans or liberate the end of the Germans who were fighting the Red Army on their Polish border?

Just sounds too complicated. Plus with today's knowledge of history we can guess how long the Soviets and Germans would have went at it. Roosevelt couldn't have gambled the NAZI's were not going to get to the Urals in 42 and being their own impossible nut to crack.

Keep in mind that a lot of Soviet success was purchased with American materiel. If we were completely on the sidelines, the Nazi vs. Communist bloodmatch would not have given the benefit to the Soviets. The Soviets had a deep rear theater but most of their industrial base was West of the Urals. Germany had a more developed industrial infrastructure.

Recall what brought the Communists to power - revolt against Czarist incompetence in WWI. We could have replayed that record with WWII by amping up the domestic revolt within the USSR. They suffered 20 million casualties as it was, so imagine what would have happened without American aid.

There's really no question now that Communism was the greater evil and had the greater death count. We let the worst ideology survive. Nazis should have taken out the Communists, which would have prevented China and the rest of the Red Bloc from emerging and that's when we should have targeted the Nazis.

 

[Mojo2]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

Before posting this I sat and thought about how I might answer and I was relieved, as I'm not the most dedicated WWII buff, to see you mention my top two answers.

Market Garden. Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor's errors can be categorized.

Plane parking.

Battleship row.

Radar operator's lack of alarm after spotting Japanese attack formation.

 

[Mojo2]

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Bravo brother.

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

Sorry I thought it would be fun yesterday to roleplay as a conservative asshole. Turns out it's pretty hard

 

[Rikurzhen]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Bravo brother.

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

Sorry I thought it would be fun yesterday to roleplay as a conservative asshole. Turns out it's pretty hard

You freaking liberals really are in your own bubble where any thought that pops into your head is deemed reality. Where do you see all the outbursts of antisemitism and anti-Israel protest? It's all left-wing.

I read your comment and thought you were being true to your liberalism. Now you try to disown it and claim that you were pretending to be a conservative. FFS, are you smoking peyote or something?

 

[Mojo2]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Bravo brother.

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

Sorry I thought it would be fun yesterday to roleplay as a conservative asshole. Turns out it's pretty hard

You only resemble the stereotypical conservatives your limited imagination can conjur.

You don't look or sound or think like a Conservative.

Sorry, you barely make a passable Liberal.

Your trying to act like a Conservative is like a little girl trying on her mom's high heels.

You still have some growing up to do.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Bravo brother.

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

Sorry I thought it would be fun yesterday to roleplay as a conservative asshole. Turns out it's pretty hard

You only resemble the stereotypical conservatives your limited imagination can conjur.

You don't look or sound or think like a Conservative.

Sorry, you barely make a passable Liberal.

Your trying to act like a Conservative is like a little girl trying on her mom's high heels.

You still have some growing up to do.

You should've seen my sweet confederate flag avie and all my siggy Reagan quotes. For a few hours I was more conservative than you could ever dream of being

 

[regent]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Bravo brother.

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

Maybe with YOUR kind of help the Germans might have murdered ANOTHER 12 Million Jews!

No, that would have been impossible because there are fewer than 15 Million Jews on Earth.

Sorry I thought it would be fun yesterday to roleplay as a conservative asshole. Turns out it's pretty hard

Perhaps letting MacArthur retake the Philippines so that he could tell the world, "I have returned." How many lives were lost on ego-trips in that war? Still most generals only get one chance.