What was our greatest strategic error in WWII and what woukd you have done?

[Toronado3800]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

 

[Peach]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

It wasn't that the ships were docked at Pearl Harbor, it was the neat rows that made hitting them so easy. Not the procedure after 12/07/41. If I am mistaken, pleae correct me, but I think the Allied leader at Market Garden was British.

 

[Machaut]

I sometimes wonder if the biggest error was not the one with nearly 50 years' complications afterward: Allowing the Soviet Union to continue to exist. Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and so on were proxy wars brought on by the Soviets. The predecessors of the Taliban of today were initially funded and equipped by the U.S. because they opposed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. It makes me wonder how many problems we wouldn't have had if we'd kept rolling eastward.

But then, hindsight is 20/20. I think that it is best not to dwell on the "What would you change?" question in regards to history, but rather, "What can we do differently next time?"

 

[Machaut]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

It wasn't that the ships were docked at Pearl Harbor, it was the neat rows that made hitting them so easy. Not the procedure after 12/07/41. If I am mistaken, pleae correct me, but I think the Allied leader at Market Garden was British.

Bernard Montgomery was the Allied Field Marshal at the time, yes.

 

[Peach]

WWII seems to be on people's minds lately.

What do you think the biggest Allied error was? Market Garden? Parking all our ships at Pearl? Wasting our time landing in Italy or Southern France? Not taking better advantage of our Italian landings or landing in Greece?

Also try to say what you would have done. Its easy to say the ships should not have been sitting at Pearl Harbor. Should they have been at sea though? San Diego? Maybe a more advanced carrier screen was needed? Would that have just got a carrier or two sunk?

I'm curious what folks will say.

It wasn't that the ships were docked at Pearl Harbor, it was the neat rows that made hitting them so easy. Not the procedure after 12/07/41. If I am mistaken, pleae correct me, but I think the Allied leader at Market Garden was British.

Bernard Montgomery was the Allied Field Marshal at the time, yes.

Ships at Norfolk and Mayport were in no particular pattern, 20+ years ago; and jetties made it difficult to view some. No doubt there was a pattern, but it was hard to determine. Some looked liked they were already at sea.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Biggest mistake in WW2?

We should've helped Germany that's what

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

I sometimes wonder if the biggest error was not the one with nearly 50 years' complications afterward: Allowing the Soviet Union to continue to exist. Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and so on were proxy wars brought on by the Soviets. The predecessors of the Taliban of today were initially funded and equipped by the U.S. because they opposed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. It makes me wonder how many problems we wouldn't have had if we'd kept rolling eastward.

But then, hindsight is 20/20. I think that it is best not to dwell on the "What would you change?" question in regards to history, but rather, "What can we do differently next time?"

Yes. Allowing communism to flourish when we could have nailed the Russians in 1945, would have saved countless millions of lives and untold misery for the next half century. Patton was right. We should have kicked Stalin's ass before he got the hydrogen bomb.

 

[Camp]

I sometimes wonder if the biggest error was not the one with nearly 50 years' complications afterward: Allowing the Soviet Union to continue to exist. Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and so on were proxy wars brought on by the Soviets. The predecessors of the Taliban of today were initially funded and equipped by the U.S. because they opposed the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. It makes me wonder how many problems we wouldn't have had if we'd kept rolling eastward.

But then, hindsight is 20/20. I think that it is best not to dwell on the "What would you change?" question in regards to history, but rather, "What can we do differently next time?"

Yes. Allowing communism to flourish when we could have nailed the Russians in 1945, would have saved countless millions of lives and untold misery for the next half century. Patton was right. We should have kicked Stalin's ass before he got the hydrogen bomb.

Stalin would have kicked our ass and we still had a war in the Pacific to finish.

 

[Picaro]

Stalin would have kicked our ass and we still had a war in the Pacific to finish.

Probably not; he certainly could have done a lot of damage in the short run, but no way he could have kicked our ass. He was still dependent on U.S. and Allied aid in 1945. It would have been easy for the Allies to re-arm German divisions, for one; several good ones still existed in northern Germany at the end of the war. The allies were also well positioned to do what Hitler should have done instead being distracted by attempting to take Stalingrad, seizing or destroying the major Soviet oil fields, and in the East he would have been crushed as well. Japan still had millions of troops in China that could have been employed against him. He couldn't control the Baltic, the Black Sea, nor his eastern coast. The simple expedient of the Allies cutting off the shipments of locomotives would have shut him down.

The real stumbling block was the American public; they probably wouldn't have supported it.

 

[HenryBHough]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

 

[regent]

Biggest error was holding back and allowing the Russians to enter Berlin. Then immediately push on to Moscow and precluded the long enslavement of so much of Europe. But liberal Democrats would NEVER mess with the march of Communism so there it was...........

Perhaps the biggest mistake was allowing Americans to have a say in war policy. The American people wanted the war ended after VE day, The people had already started their campaign to "bring the boys home" even as the war continued. Divisions were decimated with the point system, took 85 to be qualify for the home trip even as Olympia and Coronet were being planned. Why was their even talk of bringing some GI's home as the war continued? Would America have allowed the nation to continue the war had it continued with the USSR, no way.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well if you want to be technical then the biggest error was not adopting a real policy of neutrality towards the Allied and Axis powers, but the biggest blunder in regards to WWII was the U.S. getting involved in WWI.

 

[Two Thumbs]

pretending that russia was an ally instead of the enemy of my enemy.

greatest mistake we almost made; Killing Hitler, he was our best weapon against Germany

 

[whitehall]

Battle of the Bulge aka the German Ardennes offensive. Rumors were going around about being home for Christmas, Ike was attending staff Christmas parties, the Troops were lounging around waiting to get a ticket home and what passed for the "intelligence" network was asleep at the switch. Ike should have been relieved of duty.

 

[Picaro]

Battle of the Bulge aka the German Ardennes offensive. Rumors were going around about being home for Christmas, Ike was attending staff Christmas parties, the Troops were lounging around waiting to get a ticket home and what passed for the "intelligence" network was asleep at the switch. Ike should have been relieved of duty.

Why should Ike have been sacked? What was he going to do, run out to the Ardennes and wave a pistol at some German, as if that would have stopped anything?

 

[whitehall]

Battle of the Bulge aka the German Ardennes offensive. Rumors were going around about being home for Christmas, Ike was attending staff Christmas parties, the Troops were lounging around waiting to get a ticket home and what passed for the "intelligence" network was asleep at the switch. Ike should have been relieved of duty.

Why should Ike have been sacked? What was he going to do, run out to the Ardennes and wave a pistol at some German, as if that would have stopped anything?

Sacked for negligence. It wasn't Ike's job to wave a pistol. It was his job to keep the Troops on alert and keep up the pressure on the Germans. He failed big time.

 

[Picaro]

Battle of the Bulge aka the German Ardennes offensive. Rumors were going around about being home for Christmas, Ike was attending staff Christmas parties, the Troops were lounging around waiting to get a ticket home and what passed for the "intelligence" network was asleep at the switch. Ike should have been relieved of duty.

Why should Ike have been sacked? What was he going to do, run out to the Ardennes and wave a pistol at some German, as if that would have stopped anything?

Sacked for negligence. It wasn't Ike's job to wave a pistol. It was his job to keep the Troops on alert and keep up the pressure on the Germans. He failed big time.

He wasn't negligent; it was a surprise attack nobody saw coming, in a part of the front were success was impossible for Hitler, and of course it failed, just another lunatic fantasy concocted in the brain of a doped up crazy maniac.

 

[hoosier88]

Battle of the Bulge aka the German Ardennes offensive. Rumors were going around about being home for Christmas, Ike was attending staff Christmas parties, the Troops were lounging around waiting to get a ticket home and what passed for the "intelligence" network was asleep at the switch. Ike should have been relieved of duty.

The US troops @ Ardennes were either green & fresh out of training & transport, or resting & refitting after taking extensive losses in the field after a long deployment. The Ardennes was judged to be a quiet area of the front by US command.

The intel net was up & running, but the Germans were beginning to doubt the integrity of their Enigma system. Consequently, they didn't radio much (any?) info, they used hand couriers for comms. & the weather was bad, obscuring the view of our normal photo recon.

Ike drove himself & his staff hard. He dealt with FDR, Churchill, Patton, Montgomery, de Gaulle, & kept the combined commands & allies together on the military front. He dealt with the Pentagon, Army, Navy, Marines, British counterparts, supply, logistics, planning & execution & on & on - he paid the price for this hyperactivity in his 2nd term as President.

There would have been no point to firing Ike - & more importantly, there was no one available with the training & stature to take his place if he were fired.

 

[bendog]

I do not think we could have won a conventional war with the soviets in 45-46, and I'm sure our nation would not have tolerated the losses. Japan attacked us, and Germany declared war on us. That ended any debate as to whether they posed a direct threat to the existence of America.

The thread discusses things like where the ships were docket at Pearl Harbor, or whether Ike should have let Patton continue into Germany rather than letting Monty get the oil for his half baked Market Garden, or seeing the Ardennes campaign of 1944. Those are all more or less operational, or questions of where assets are allocated.

Strategically, why didn't we find a way to accommodate Japan's real needs to expand its base territory and economy in response to the Depression and a population that was uncontrolled by birth control? Why would educated Germans buy into a need to believe in racial superiority giving them a right to conquer and rule other societies?

In theory, we addressed these questions in post-WWII Geneva accords. Those are not being followed in either Israel or the Ukraine.

 

[Picaro]

Strategically, why didn't we find a way to accommodate Japan's real needs to expand its base territory and economy in response to the Depression and a population that was uncontrolled by birth control? Why would educated Germans buy into a need to believe in racial superiority giving them a right to conquer and rule other societies?

So who's land should we have stolen and then give to Japan? China was more than large enough for Japan, they were just intent on accumulating an empire filled with 'inferior' slaves, and such imperialism is never satisfied.

As for Germany, the whole 'Aryan Uber Man' thing started in the 1870's, with a newly unified Germany and an Emperor who wanted to build a common ethnic national identity built around 'German race and culture', not so very different than what France and England and other European countries already had had for centuries. Even Max Weber was a member of one of the early groups promoting that.

In theory, we addressed these questions in post-WWII Geneva accords. Those are not being followed in either Israel or the Ukraine.

What is not being followed in Israel or the Ukraine?