CDZ What should we do?

[TemplarKormac]

So, what should be done?

Thank you for asking such a reasonable question.

We should do what adults should always do when confronted with a problem: Communicate, collaborate, think, create, drop the ideologies, and work together. Take it one step at a time.

Coyote was kind enough to offer some specific ideas in post 20 here: CDZ - The Truth about Separating Kids

However, since we have lost the skills required for normal communication and collaboration, and because we care more about leveraging political advantage than in actually solving problems, who knows what will actually happen.
.

I went through Coyote's post... at 40, not 20, and I left some thoughtful responses. But alas, nobody rarely ever wants to work together like you said. They all want to exploit this issue for political purposes.

 

[candycorn]

Why is giving them back to Mexico 'bad'? Isn't that racist bigotry and hatred of Mexican culture?

Did they all come from Mexico?

 

[candycorn]

You should console yourself that it's all for the best because you don't really give a damn about the kids anyway.

I give a damn about my kid ... less so about someone else's.

Lest we forget, they came here knowing full well this would happen. Tell me why I should have more sympathy for the children than disgust for the adults who put the children in this situation?

If it has to be explained to you....you won’t understand the explanation.

 

[sparky]

3. DACA should be adressed on its own not tied to other thingss. Those kids need some certainty as to their future.

The countries those children came from should be responsible for them, NOT the USA

Tie that to our foriegn policies with them , impose sanctions and do so with the rest of the world, until they man up

~S~

 

[TemplarKormac]

I didnt vote because it would only allow me to choose one and I would have chosen both.

If you'd like I can ask you to change the criteria of the poll to allow more than one choice. I want a thorough response from this board, not just a partial one. My mistake.

1. Trump created this current situation. He cooked up the policy that is the cause of so much grief right now. He can remove it just as easily. It is a policy. If part of his rationale was to force his legislative wishlist through congress then that is abhorant. Using the abuse of children in this way is just plain unreal and inhuman to me. He easily end what he started.

2. The larger issue needs to be addressed, but not tied to this immediate one. We have had multiple attempts at immigration reform attempted and cut down. It needs to be bipartisan and comprehensive and frankly should be done in a thoughtful manner that includes input from all sectors affected by immigration, not just politicians.

But I can see the strategy, albeit an unpopular one, behind it. I think Trump implemented this policy on purpose to force action. Congress failed to act on DACA (we can argue the semantics in the Politics forum), so I'm guessing this was the only option left open to him. And if Democrats or Republicans fail to handle this in the right manner, the onus will be on them, not him. Though, he is taking one for the team I suppose.

3. DACA should be addressed on its own not tied to other things. Those kids need some certainty as to their future.

While I agree with that aspect, I can't help but point out that their parents introduced that uncertainty by putting their child's future in the hands of a foreign government. I see it as amoral to gamble a child's future that way.

 

[Coyote]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

One thing I have come to realize in this debate is the different perspectives members bring to it based on their own experiences, you and BikerSailer in particular. That makes me realize it isnt just a remote political issue but a more deeply personal one as well.

It is such a broad issue imo, that you need to break it down. The parents of unaccompanied minors. What questions needs to be asked?

How could parents send their children such a way alone?

Or

What situation could be so horrific that parents would make such a choice?

Or

Were the parents even involved?

These kids are older than the ones currently being seperated. They are also from central and south American countries undergoing extreme violence and poverty particularly for indiginous people.

Any solutions would have to include addressing those root causes pushing illegal immigration.

IMO...illegal immigration is so dangerous and risky that people would have to be pretty desoerate to take that risk. So yes I have sympathy for them. That doe not mean open borders but it means every human should be treated with basic respect and dignity. They arent vermin they are people.


Edited to correct typo.

 

[Skull Pilot]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

One parent should be restored custody of the child or children (preferably the mother), and this until all are prossesed and deported safely out of the country. No illegal entry should be rewarded as it only encourages more and more. They must all be deported together. No woman or child should be criminalized for illegal entry, but the father should take the penalty. Even so they all (the family), must be deported together.

Just turn them all away and then the parents can stay with their kids in Mexico where they become the Mexicans' problems

 

[TemplarKormac]

I've stated possible solutions and just keep getting told I support open borders.

Curious you said this in the post Mac linked to.

But then you said this yesterday. Can you explain the inconsistency?

IMO...illegal immigration is so dangerous and risky that people would have to be pretty desperate to take that risk. So yes I have sympathy for them. That means open borders but it means every human should be treated with basic respect and dignity. They aren't vermin they are people.

So do you or don't you? You seem to confirm the criticism of those who insist you advocate for open borders.

 

[cnm]

Didn't take long to go full Godwin ... I had 15 minutes in the pool.

Hey, they're not our kids, why should we care? Apart from the usual fncceo double standard, of course.

 

[miketx]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

We can't do anything about it. What makes you think we can? Also, this is simply a distraction on part of the media and it's lapdog media fed puppets who fan the flames of this bullshit every moment to distract from the real tragedy that is the criminal scum in the FBI.

 

[miketx]

Republicans hold the house, senate, and presidency. They can end this anytime they want. That's the truth.

Truth is, the entire congress has to act, and they have been given many chances to do so and they refuse. The dimilcrats at obstructing as usual.

 

[Pop23]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

Why do you think these kids came here alone?

If Trump had a heart, let alone a political brain, he would have sent judges to the border to hear asylum cases. At the very least he should permit asylum seekers to actually ask for asylum nefore branding them as 'criminals'. We could detain the parents alongside their children thus alleviating the separation trauma unnecessary to enforce the law.

By being as,cruel as possible, he is telling his shrinking base that, yes indeed, he is tough on border security. Should congress, rightfully, deny him the money for his wall (remember how Mexico was going to pay for it?) at least Trump could still strut and blame congress and Democrats and anyone else he wants to blame. After all, he and his supporters think he is infallible and they all need someone to blame.

Did these children come here alone? Have you been asleep for a week?

Of the 12000 being detained, 10000 indeed, crossed the boarder ALONE.

 

[Pop23]

Why is giving them back to Mexico 'bad'? Isn't that racist bigotry and hatred of Mexican culture?

Give them back, hell, Mexico should not be allowing them access to the border at ALL except at legal boarder crossings.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This child separation issue is getting on my nerves, not only the imagery, but the game of political football going on. On one hand, I can't help but have sympathy for the children at the center of this debacle. I can't help but feel great anger towards the parents who chose to send their children thousands of miles north from Central America to the southern border, alone. On the other hand I want the law to be enforced. Sympathy should simply take a back seat. I find this conundrum troubling because both sides make valid points. This whole thing feels wrong to me.

So, what should be done?

We can't do anything about it. What makes you think we can? Also, this is simply a distraction on part of the media and it's lapdog media fed puppets who fan the flames of this bullshit every moment to distract from the real tragedy that is the criminal scum in the FBI.

 

[BlackSand]

.​

So tell us how many you're signing up to sponsor. Demonstrate some real concern, instead of just lying on the internet about your fake 'humanitarianism' like all the other 'humanitarians' that wouldn't be caught dead sponsoring any of these 'refugees'.

It's illegal for anyone other than a family member to sponsor an immigrant wanting to enter the country.

So ... Expecting a bleeding heart Progressive to actually put their money where their mouth is ...
Would not only be unrealistic ... But they have been provided an adequate excuse for that scenario.

Unless of course ... You are expecting them to break the law.
In which case it would be no different than someone breaking the law to enter the country any other way.

.​

 

[BlackSand]

One thing I have come to realize in this debate is the different perspectives members bring to it based on their own experiences, you and BikerSailer in particular. That makes me realize it isnt just a remote political issue but a more deeply personal one as well.

It is such a broad issue imo, that you need to break it down. The parents of unaccompanied minors. What questions needs to be asked?

How could parents send their children such a way alone?

Or

What situation could be so horrific that parents would make such a choice?

Or

Were the parents even involved?

These kids are older than the ones currently being seperated. They are also from central and south American countries undergoing extreme violence and poverty particularly for indiginous people.

Any solutions would have to include addressing those root causes pushing illegal immigration.

IMO...illegal immigration is so dangerous and risky that people would have to be pretty desoerate to take that risk. So yes I have sympathy for them. Thst mean open borders but it means every human should be treated with basic respect and dignity. They arent vermin they are people.

There's a reason why most retailers won't let you use a credit card to buy a lottery ticket.
It's not because they don't care about you, or don't want you to succeed at winning the lottery.

.
.​

 

[cnm]

So tell us how many you're signing up to sponsor.

Why does finding the separation of toddlers from parents disturbing require a sponsorship of refugees to be valid? Why is applying for asylum illegal?

 

[cnm]

The two ways of obtaining asylum in the United States are through the affirmative process and defensive process.
Affirmative Asylum Processing With USCIS
https://www.uscis.gov
To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum status regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

You must apply for asylum within one year of the date of their last arrival in the United States, unless you can show:

• Changed circumstances that materially affect your eligibility for asylum or extraordinary circumstances relating to the delay in filing
• You filed within a reasonable amount of time given those circumstances.

 

[BlackSand]

Why is applying for asylum illegal?

It isn't illegal ... Just unnecessary ...
Unless of course you were stupid enough to ensure only the government and criminals have firearms.

.​

.​

 

[miketx]

So tell us how many you're signing up to sponsor.

Why does finding the separation of toddlers from parents disturbing require a sponsorship of refugees to be valid? Why is applying for asylum illegal?

If you were honest you could see that is not what they are doing. They are coming in illegally and deserve what ever fate befalls them. It's their fault and Mexico's fault. Personally I think we should send in the military to bomb the hell out of the Mexican border and teach those lowlife scum they are nothing