What should abortion laws be?

[☭proletarian☭]

I believe that the decision should be the mothers until that child qualifies for a birth certificate. At which point killing the child is murder.

Ignoring the bullshit at the end of your post, answer me this: What fundamental aspect of the child's very nature changes from the moment before the head starts to crown to the moment the last toe leaves the woman's body?

 

[Christopher]

I answered every question. Not my fault you lack reading comprehension skills. If you read what I posted, you can extrapolate my answer to just about any scenario you can imagine- because that's what happens when you're consistent.

Here was one you did not answer:

Should we "pull the plug" on someone that had the same chance as a fetus of gaining consciousness?

It was a simple yes or no question.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I cannot tell you whether you should end the life of tissue or not. What objection can be raised to keeping tissue alive, so long as it's not coming out of my or the public pocket? if you have the money and wish to keep the tissue of a human arm alive because of some unhealthy attachment to something that was part of the body inhabited by your dead mother, that's your business.

 

[Alvin]

I believe that the decision should be the mothers until that child qualifies for a birth certificate. At which point killing the child is murder.

Ignoring the bullshit at the end of your post, answer me this: What fundamental aspect of the child's very nature changes from the moment before the head starts to crown to the moment the last toe leaves the woman's body?

At one point it's still stuck in the mother. At the other it isn't.

You have a point?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

At one point it's still stuck in the mother. At the other it isn't.

At one point you're in a room, at the other you aren't. Your location has changed. Your nature has not changed.

Now stop being purposely retarded and answer the question.

 

[Alvin]

At one point it's still stuck in the mother. At the other it isn't.

At one point you're in a room, at the other you aren't. Your location has changed. Your nature has not changed.

Now stop being purposely retarded and answer the question.

No, your nature hasn't. But then again the room rarley has an opinion on the movements of the people within it (to use your analogy). Neither does the room have to deal with your feeding, shelter, healthcare, education, personal/moral/ethical upbringing for at least the next 18 years.

 

[Bern80]

I believe that the decision should be the mothers until that child qualifies for a birth certificate. At which point killing the child is murder.
I don't think that any government should mandate that a citizen of their country should be reduced to a life support system against her wishes.

Again a position that can only be supported by a ridiculously convenient narrow definition of life that is basically a born, fully gestated child.

I'm not advocating a black or white guideline here. Medical complications I don't have an issue with parent(s) choosing what they want to do.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

At one point it's still stuck in the mother. At the other it isn't.

At one point you're in a room, at the other you aren't. Your location has changed. Your nature has not changed.

Now stop being purposely retarded and answer the question.

No, your nature hasn't. But then again the room rarley has an opinion on the movements of the people within it (to use your analogy). Neither does the room have to deal with your feeding, shelter, healthcare, education, personal/moral/ethical upbringing for at least the next 18 years.

A parent generally where a child goes for years after birth. And just how many years of responsibility outweigh human life? what if I don't want to deed the creature for another year (she's 17) or ten (he's 8)?

And what of the concept of the most fundamental of human rights? Can the State decide to kill anyone on welfare, since it feeds and clothes them- and can pass laws and use police to eh military to enforce them, to control where they go? By your 'reasoning' (I use the term very loosely), prisoners, refugees, and innocents imprisoned by genocidal dictators can rightfully be killed since they are a burden unto others.

If you object to such actions, then you've contradicted your own argument and admit that your assertions are absurd. if you support such actions, then frankly noone gives a damned about you or your twisted views.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Hers the latest I've found on the subject

http://www.thatreligiousstudieswebs...d_Ethics/Abortion/concept_of_personhood_4.php

 

[Christopher]

I cannot tell you whether you should end the life of tissue or not. What objection can be raised to keeping tissue alive, so long as it's not coming out of my or the public pocket? if you have the money and wish to keep the tissue of a human arm alive because of some unhealthy attachment to something that was part of the body inhabited by your dead mother, that's your business.

You are talking about a fetus now and no longer comparing it to a brain dead person? Let me try to make sure I understand your position with an example. What you seem to be saying is that if a doctor told some parents that their 10 year old son had an 85% chance (miscarriages are somewhere between 10-20% of pregnancies) of regaining consciousness, you would leave the decision up to the parents about whether to “pull the plug” or not. Is that what you are saying?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I cannot tell you whether you should end the life of tissue or not. What objection can be raised to keeping tissue alive, so long as it's not coming out of my or the public pocket? if you have the money and wish to keep the tissue of a human arm alive because of some unhealthy attachment to something that was part of the body inhabited by your dead mother, that's your business.

You are talking about a fetus now and no longer comparing it to a brain dead person? Let me try to make sure I understand your position with an example. What you seem to be saying is that if a doctor told some parents that their 10 year old son had an 85% chance (miscarriages are somewhere between 10-20% of pregnancies) of regaining consciousness, you would leave the decision up to the parents about whether to “pull the plug” or not. Is that what you are saying?

Consciousness =/= sentience, you twit.

Get a dictionary, learn to stay on topic, and then come back.

 

[Christopher]

I cannot tell you whether you should end the life of tissue or not. What objection can be raised to keeping tissue alive, so long as it's not coming out of my or the public pocket? if you have the money and wish to keep the tissue of a human arm alive because of some unhealthy attachment to something that was part of the body inhabited by your dead mother, that's your business.

You are talking about a fetus now and no longer comparing it to a brain dead person? Let me try to make sure I understand your position with an example. What you seem to be saying is that if a doctor told some parents that their 10 year old son had an 85% chance (miscarriages are somewhere between 10-20% of pregnancies) of regaining consciousness, you would leave the decision up to the parents about whether to “pull the plug” or not. Is that what you are saying?

Consciousness =/= sentience, you twit.

Get a dictionary, learn to stay on topic, and then come back.

In other words, you refuse to answer the question. Resorting to name calling does not further your position. Here is a source for you: Sentience Synonym | Synonym of Sentience and Antonym of Sentience at Thesaurus.com
Some synonyms for sentience:

Synonyms:
acquaintance, acquaintanceship, alertness, aliveness, appreciation, apprehension, attention, attentiveness, bodhi, cognizance, comprehension, consciousness, discernment, enlightenment, experience, familiarity, information, keenness, mindfulness, perception, realization, recognition, sensibility, sentience, understanding

Note the one in bold. Regardless, let me change the question just for you anyway:

If a doctor told some parents that their son had an 85% chance of gaining consciousness and becoming sentient, you would leave the decision up to the parents about whether to “pull the plug” or not?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

You really need to go ask an English professor to explain it to you. I don't have the patience top fix your illiteracy. Unless, of course, you're just being willfully dishonest.

 

[Christopher]

You really need to go ask an English professor to explain it to you. I don't have the patience top fix your illiteracy. Unless, of course, you're just being willfully dishonest.

You’re now focused on definitions to avoid answering the question. Here is another definition of sentience:

sentience - definition of sentience by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

n.
1. The quality or state of being sentient; consciousness.
2. Feeling as distinguished from perception or thought.

Go ahead; prove that consciousness is not considered a synonym to sentience. I’ve provided plenty of evidence they are synonyms. It was you who first told me to look the definitions up in a dictionary, right? Now I have to talk to an English professor?

You continue to refuse to answer a simple question and instead you seem to want to play games with semantics and philosophical definitions. If that is not that case, perhaps you would care to explain why any differences between the definitions of consciousness and sentience matter with regards to answering the simple question I have asked.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

prove that consciousness is not considered a synonym to sentience.

You're retarded. When I knock you out, do you cease to be a sentient being?

You're the idiot trying to play word games

 

[Truthmatters]

prove that consciousness is not considered a synonym to sentience.

You're retarded. When I knock you out, do you cease to be a sentient being?

You're the idiot trying to play word games

Hes got you fool

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Of course, the poster who's never heard of an apostrpohe wants to chime in about literacy.

 

[rdean]

If the conservatives are totally serious about ending abortion, this is the way to do it:

TEN STEPS TO END ABORTION FOREVER -

1. Register every single voter who is anti Abortion.

2. Outlaw every abortion, even ones that put the mothers life in danger, after all, there have been huge advancements in medicine.

3. End all "family planning'.

4. End all education on sex except "abstinence only". Outlaw any mention of disease or contraceptive.

5. Begin a "public option" fund by taxing ONLY voters who registered against abortion rights. That money to be used for prenatal care for women that can't afford such care.

6. Start a lottery. Only those who are registered against abortion rights can play.

7. Winners get to receive brand new babies.

8. Losers have to support a woman and her baby if she wants to keep the baby.

9. "Daily Doubles" get twins.

10. Children must be cared for for 18 years.

I'm the only one that came up with any kind of plan that takes care of the woman, takes care of the baby and satisfies the Christians.

The rights "entire" plan is "make abortion illegal" AND THAT'S IT!

Well, it doesn't work that way. You can't just say, "Don't do that" and then walk away, "There, my job is done".

 

[FA_Q2]

Neither does the room have to deal with your feeding, shelter, healthcare, education, personal/moral/ethical upbringing for at least the next 18 years.

Nor does she, that is what adoption is for. The only inconvenience suffered is the carrying and delivery and I feel that is not take precedence to being cut up into small pieces and thrown away. Heck, pain killers are not even used for partial birth abortions and I can’t see death by chemicals as being pleasant.

If a doctor told some parents that their son had an 85% chance of gaining consciousness and becoming sentient, you would leave the decision up to the parents about whether to “pull the plug” or not?

Look, at that point the brain is still in existence and functioning, just not fully. You may disagree but the possibility of gaining a “self” is not the issue for me and pro, it is the attaining it in the first place. In your example the child is not brain dead, there is no recovering from brain death. That is a coma and coma patients are not brain dead. They retain no new memories in most cases but they are still functioning at some level.

No rdean , you’re the only one here who is being facetious and it is not appreciated. We are attempting to have an intelligent conversation here.

 

[JD_2B]

prove that consciousness is not considered a synonym to sentience.

You're retarded. When I knock you out, do you cease to be a sentient being?

You're the idiot trying to play word games

Yes actually, someone who is unconscious is not sentient, you fucking moron.

How is Christopher playing mind games, anyways? He is GIVING you the dictionary definitions, PLUS the synonyms to it.

It is not anyone's fault that you cannot come to terms with anything. Good Grief, I should have kept you on ignore, you dumb twat.