What must Israel do to "end the occupation"? (solutions thread)

[montelatici]

Surely not somebody Else's land.

If your peoples originated on that land, developed on that land, held sovereignty on that land, have thousands of years of history on that land, are the oldest surviving peoples claiming that land, is it not your land?

The Zionists were European converts to Judaism, they had nothing to do with the Middle East.

The oldest surviving claimants are the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians whose ancestors (Jews, Samaritans, Pagans) converted to Christianity after 380 AD and then most to Islam after Muslim rule.

 

[Shusha]

Surely not somebody Else's land.

If your peoples originated on that land, developed on that land, held sovereignty on that land, have thousands of years of history on that land, are the oldest surviving peoples claiming that land, is it not your land?

The Zionists were European converts to Judaism, they had nothing to do with the Middle East.

The oldest surviving claimants are the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians whose ancestors (Jews, Samaritans, Pagans) converted to Christianity after 380 AD and then most to Islam after Muslim rule.

So your objective criteria is residency, then? If you are invaded, conquered, forced to convert to another culture but remain resident in the territory -- the territory becomes yours under the adopted culture. Those who are forced to leave, lose sovereignty, are killed or forcibly converted lose indigeneity -- even if some remnant remains of the original culture.

Okay, fine. So it that is your criteria you can have no argument with the Jewish conversion of the territory (back) to Jewish rule and sovereignty.

 

[Hollie]

Surely not somebody Else's land.

If your peoples originated on that land, developed on that land, held sovereignty on that land, have thousands of years of history on that land, are the oldest surviving peoples claiming that land, is it not your land?

The Zionists were European converts to Judaism, they had nothing to do with the Middle East.

The oldest surviving claimants are the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians whose ancestors (Jews, Samaritans, Pagans) converted to Christianity after 380 AD and then most to Islam after Muslim rule.

Your taqiyya is easily refuted by the history you know nothing of.

As late as the last decade of the 1200's, the European Crusader colonists were still at war in the geographic area of Pal'istan.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What is your criteria for "proof" of ancestry?

The Palestinians have Palestinian citizenship from 1924 based on their Ottoman citizenship. Ottoman citizenship was probably based on their residence in the area at the time of takeover. Virtually all Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman period. I am not sure how that was handled before then. However, churches typically recorded births, deaths, marriages, and children of their people. Susan Abulhawa, for example claims that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Now Israel calls her a foreigner in her homeland.

To say that "the Jews" are natives to that land is like saying "the Christians" are natives to that land. It is absurd to make such a statement. There is nothing to prove that to be true.

 

[Hollie]

What is your criteria for "proof" of ancestry?

The Palestinians have Palestinian citizenship from 1924 based on their Ottoman citizenship. Ottoman citizenship was probably based on their residence in the area at the time of takeover. Virtually all Palestinian cities, towns, and villages predate the Ottoman period. I am not sure how that was handled before then. However, churches typically recorded births, deaths, marriages, and children of their people. Susan Abulhawa, for example claims that she can trace her family in Palestine back 900 years. Now Israel calls her a foreigner in her homeland.

To say that "the Jews" are natives to that land is like saying "the Christians" are natives to that land. It is absurd to make such a statement. There is nothing to prove that to be true.

Islamist talking points.

 

[teddyearp]

LOL. That's the one you address

Okay fine here's a good start for you:

http://www.un.org/webcast/pdfs/SRES2334-2016.pdf

Interesting that your document addresses nothing about the Oslo Accords except for the resolutions that they were based upon.

 

[teddyearp]

Careful, asking questions is part of the Hasbara troll play book. The UNSC states exactly what Israel must do, he is trying to inject confusion.

Hasbara Troll attributes

1. Supreme point of view
2. The Hasbara troll knows best
3. Condescending & Patronising
4. Socialist (Smart and 'caring')
5. Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6. Internet experts
7. Narcissistic
8. Provocative
9. Disruptive
10. Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11. Control freaks
12. Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13. 'Moral' Guardians
14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15. Adept with social networks well trained on IT

The Goyim's Guide to Hasbara Trolls from Jonathon Blakeley (March 28, 2016)

Pretty interesting, montelatici . That street runs both ways, especially for you, doesn't it? Let me show you:

Electronic Intifada Troll attributes:

1. Supreme point of view
2. The Electronic Intifada Troll knows best
3. Condescending and Patronizing
   
4. Socialist elite (Smart above all and supposedly caring)
5. Claims to be Jewish and/or christian, but Anti-Israel
6. Internet expert
7. Narcissistic
8. Provacative
9. Disruptive
10. Likes to avoid answering direct yes or no questions, instead it's "But you have to . . ."
11. Control Freak
    
12. Inflamed by anyone who is not critical of Israel
13. Moral guardian
14. Classic insults: Moron, Idiot, not educated, etc.
15. Adept with social networks and IT

I'd say that fits many if not all of the electronic intifada posters here. And let's not forget this, this is for you:

 

[teddyearp]

The occupiers came from Europe you moron.

Playing right into the electronic intifada troll playbook, I see. But you ALWAYS ignore the fact that there were still Israeli Jews there, and the hundreds of thousands that were absorbed into the State of Israel when they were expelled from neighboring Arab states after 1948.

 

[Challenger]

That is the essence of the conflict -- Jews want Jewish self-determination

No, Zionists insist on "Jews", a multi ethnic religious group, having "self-determination" in a land they have no link to other than a tenuous religious one. As you said yourself, religious views are not valid in a court of law.

Not only a religious connection (which itself is a very intense one), but also one based on ancestry, history and culture. It's the only place in the world where a unique Israeli culture is celebrated, as opposed to a Palestinian-Arab culture, which is no different than 22 others. Unfortunately, you've never been there, seen it or experienced it for yourself. Also, as someone whose dad lost his family in WW2, it's important to have one last refuge for Jews, so we don't have to rely on the whimsical kindness of others. And not only in terms of persecution. When the Ethiopian Jews were threatened by drought, they went to Israel.

Surely not somebody Else's land.

If your peoples originated on that land, developed on that land, held sovereignty on that land, have thousands of years of history on that land, are the oldest surviving peoples claiming that land, is it not your land?

No, it isn't. European Jewish people did not originate in Palestine, sovereignty is debatable, as it's a relatively modern concept, regarding history, only a few centuries actually, and the oldest surviving people already lived there. They may have followed Judaism once, as well as Christianity, but latterly they converted to Islam, they are the indigenous natives, not the European colonisers.

 

[Challenger]

Careful, asking questions is part of the Hasbara troll play book. The UNSC states exactly what Israel must do, he is trying to inject confusion.

Hasbara Troll attributes

1. Supreme point of view
2. The Hasbara troll knows best
3. Condescending & Patronising
4. Socialist (Smart and 'caring')
5. Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6. Internet experts
7. Narcissistic
8. Provocative
9. Disruptive
10. Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11. Control freaks
12. Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13. 'Moral' Guardians
14. Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15. Adept with social networks well trained on IT

The Goyim's Guide to Hasbara Trolls from Jonathon Blakeley (March 28, 2016)

Pretty interesting, montelatici . That street runs both ways, especially for you, doesn't it? Let me show you:

Electronic Intifada Troll attributes:

1. Supreme point of view
2. The Electronic Intifada Troll knows best
3. Condescending and Patronizing
   
4. Socialist elite (Smart above all and supposedly caring)
5. Claims to be Jewish and/or christian, but Anti-Israel
6. Internet expert
7. Narcissistic
8. Provacative
9. Disruptive
10. Likes to avoid answering direct yes or no questions, instead it's "But you have to . . ."
11. Control Freak
    
12. Inflamed by anyone who is not critical of Israel
13. Moral guardian
14. Classic insults: Moron, Idiot, not educated, etc.
15. Adept with social networks and IT

I'd say that fits many if not all of the electronic intifada posters here. And let's not forget this, this is for you:

Go Monte!! If all the Hasbara trolls here can do is resort to making things up and creating a meme for you because they can't refute any of your arguments, you know you've won!

 

[Challenger]

The occupiers came from Europe you moron.

Playing right into the electronic intifada troll playbook, I see. But you ALWAYS ignore the fact that there were still Israeli Jews there, and the hundreds of thousands that were absorbed into the State of Israel when they were expelled from neighboring Arab states after 1948.

Care to provide a link to this "Electronic Intifada troll playbook"? I'll make it easier for you, here's a link to the website The Electronic Intifada

Got to admit, I'd never heard of Electronic Intifada until you kept on mentioning it. Looks to be an informative and interesting site, lots of stuff ignored by the "mainstream media" Thanks.

 

[teddyearp]

The way you folks post fringe lies and half truths all the time, calling it an Electronic Intifada seems appropriate. Nothing to do with the website.