What is the proper method of dealing with crowd control ...

[syrenn]

Quang Duc’s self-immolation roused the Vietnamese “engaged Buddhist” movement to action and eventually led to the overthrow of the oppressive, American-backed Diem regime in November 1963. On a less tangible level, Quang Duc brought the suffering of the Vietnamese people to the forefront of international thought.

On May 8th 1963, a group of Buddhists in the city of Hue flew religious flags as part of a celebration of Buddha’s birth. Ngo Dinh Diem, the pro-Catholic president of South Vietnam, had banned the use of Buddhist flags despite Vietnam’s 80 percent Buddhist population, ordered the flags torn down, and the crowd dispersed. Government troops opened fire on the crowd, killing seven children and one woman.

This event galvanized the Buddhist population against the oppressive Diem regime and sparked widespread protests. Quang Duc along with the Unified Buddhist Church wrote several letters to the Diem government requesting “legal equality with the Catholic Church, an end to arrests, greater freedom to practice their faith, and indemnification of the families of victims of the May 8 shootings.”13 The Diem government ignored these requests and arrested large numbers of Buddhist activists. In 1968, of the 1,870 prisoners held in Chi Hoa Prison, Saigon, 1,665 were listed as “Buddhists” and only fifty as “Communists.”These political events set the immediate backdrop for Quang Duc’s self-immolation. After the Hue Massacre, Western reporters in Saigon were made aware of Buddhist plans to escalate the protests through “staged suicides.” The Buddhist community was privy to the fact that their peaceful protests were not impacting the Diem government nor receiving coverage by the international media therefore Quang Duc and his fellow monks began preparing for his self-immolation.
On the day of the immolation, 300 monks blocked the streets surrounding Quang Duc and prevented anyone from interfering with the event.
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/history/undergrad/pat/Journal2004/Slosberg.pdf

Self-immolation is not suicide.

Sure it is suicide. Suicide in protest of...

 

[Sky Dancer]

First of all, Syrenn, you have stated a number of times that you support suicide, and that if someone was suicidal you would give him a gun.

Self-immolation as Thich Nhat Hanh describes is not the selfish act of trying to avoid suffering but it is the willingness to take on suffering to end suffering of others.

The crux of Hanh’s argument is that the intentions of the monks who sacrifice themselves outweigh or offset the violent nature of the act. This is a familiar notion in Buddhism where merit is gained from the intentions of the person and not the act itself. Thus, it was the selflessness, empathy, and sincerity motivating the monks’ actions that compensated for the violence involved.

Since you could give a shit about suicide, and in fact, support "suicide", you have no business calling a bodhisattva an "idiot".

You wish harm to others, and you have a small mind when it comes to understanding selflessness.

 

[syrenn]

First of all, Syrenn, you have stated a number of times that you support suicide, and that if someone was suicidal you would give him a gun.

Self-immolation as Thich Nhat Hanh describes is not the selfish act of trying to avoid suffering but it is the willingness to take on suffering to end suffering of others.

The crux of Hanh’s argument is that the intentions of the monks who sacrifice themselves outweigh or offset the violent nature of the act. This is a familiar notion in Buddhism where merit is gained from the intentions of the person and not the act itself. Thus, it was the selflessness, empathy, and sincerity motivating the monks’ actions that compensated for the violence involved.

Since you could give a shit about suicide, and in fact, support "suicide", you have no business calling a bodhisattva an "idiot".

You wish harm to others, and you have a small mind when it comes to understanding selflessness.

If someone wants to torch themselves for what ever reason... that in my opinion makes them an idiot.

My saying that you have an absolute right to your body...which includes killing yourself... is not wishing harm on others.

So i guess i get to call you a liar again sky.... since you again insist on assuming and misrepresent my views and feeling as fact. You are not doing well with your attempted aspirations sky....

 

[Sky Dancer]

First of all, Syrenn, you have stated a number of times that you support suicide, and that if someone was suicidal you would give him a gun.

Self-immolation as Thich Nhat Hanh describes is not the selfish act of trying to avoid suffering but it is the willingness to take on suffering to end suffering of others.

The crux of Hanh’s argument is that the intentions of the monks who sacrifice themselves outweigh or offset the violent nature of the act. This is a familiar notion in Buddhism where merit is gained from the intentions of the person and not the act itself. Thus, it was the selflessness, empathy, and sincerity motivating the monks’ actions that compensated for the violence involved.

Since you could give a shit about suicide, and in fact, support "suicide", you have no business calling a bodhisattva an "idiot".

You wish harm to others, and you have a small mind when it comes to understanding selflessness.

If someone wants to torch themselves for what ever reason... that in my opinion makes them an idiot.

My saying that you have an absolute right to your body...which includes killing yourself... is not wishing harm on others.

So i guess i get to call you a liar again sky.... since you again insist on assuming and misrepresent my views and feeling as fact. You are not doing well with your attempted aspirations sky....

You have stated that you would aid and abet someone who wanted to commit suicide. That makes you an idiot by your own definition. I would try and help prevent a suicide, myself. Shall I enumerate all the classes of human beings you would kill?

Self-immolation as practiced by these Buddhist monks is not the same as suicide because the motivation is completely different. I would not interfere in a high lama's self-less act.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

And as the sun sinks slowly into the west, we say aloha to the original topic in favor of the derailment.

 

[BDBoop]

UC Davis' embattled chancellor said campus police officers defied her orders when they used pepper spray on peaceful Occupy protesters last week.

Very interesting. Don't suppose that changes anybody's perception of said event.

UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

In an interview with the Sacramento Bee, Katehi said her office told the school's police department that officers needed to be peaceful when removing protesters.

"We told the police to remove the tents or the equipment," she told the paper. "We told them very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley."

In a telephone interview from New York, Bratton said he hoped to meet Yudof's request for "an outside, independent investigation and try to ascertain exactly what happened." He said his experiences in Los Angeles, where he was police chief for seven years until 2009, provided "no shortage of controversial incidents."

 

[Caroljo]

Knocking little old ladies to the ground, no brutality in that.

I know some pretty mean and nasty little old ladies....I wouldn't put anything past them.

 

[Ringel05]

UC Davis' embattled chancellor said campus police officers defied her orders when they used pepper spray on peaceful Occupy protesters last week.

Very interesting. Don't suppose that changes anybody's perception of said event.

UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

In an interview with the Sacramento Bee, Katehi said her office told the school's police department that officers needed to be peaceful when removing protesters.

"We told the police to remove the tents or the equipment," she told the paper. "We told them very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley."

In a telephone interview from New York, Bratton said he hoped to meet Yudof's request for "an outside, independent investigation and try to ascertain exactly what happened." He said his experiences in Los Angeles, where he was police chief for seven years until 2009, provided "no shortage of controversial incidents."

My perspective is I wasn't there and I don't have ALL the facts, I didn't see any of the events, except one, leading up to the incident including what the cops and protesters were doing, I wasn't the proverbial fly on the wall in her office, the police pre-action briefing room or the OWS planning group. Therefore, not being omnipotent I would like to have all that information before I pass judgement.
Call me crazy but I believe in due process, not trail and conviction by public opinion.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Knocking little old ladies to the ground, no brutality in that.

I know some pretty mean and nasty little old ladies....I wouldn't put anything past them.

Want to hurt them, do ya?

 

[Ropey]

UC Davis' embattled chancellor said campus police officers defied her orders when they used pepper spray on peaceful Occupy protesters last week.

Very interesting. Don't suppose that changes anybody's perception of said event.

UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

In an interview with the Sacramento Bee, Katehi said her office told the school's police department that officers needed to be peaceful when removing protesters.

"We told the police to remove the tents or the equipment," she told the paper. "We told them very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley."

In a telephone interview from New York, Bratton said he hoped to meet Yudof's request for "an outside, independent investigation and try to ascertain exactly what happened." He said his experiences in Los Angeles, where he was police chief for seven years until 2009, provided "no shortage of controversial incidents."

My perspective is I wasn't there and I don't have ALL the facts, I didn't see any of the events, except one, leading up to the incident including what the cops and protesters were doing, I wasn't the proverbial fly on the wall in her office, the police pre-action briefing room or the OWS planning group. Therefore, not being omnipotent I would like to have all that information before I pass judgement.
Call me crazy but I believe in due process, not trail and conviction by public opinion.

But that's what she's doing.

So, that must mean that BDBoop does not believe in due process, and believes in trail and conviction by public opinion.

 

[Ropey]

It was a personal poke at me, and you know it. I'm the only Buddhist on this board. You think you're so clever, but you're not.

Everybody can see what you intended. It's right out in the open.

Its saying.... i would have no issue if they set themselves on fire as a protest LIKE the idiot buddhist who did it. .......how hard is that to understand sky?

I, like you, dont think they have any intentions of doing any such thing.... they love themselves to much.

The Buddhists who are self-immolating are bodhisattvas. They are selfless beings.
They are not idiots.

Truth is you're all for killing anyone you think is an idiot.

So, the Buddhists who are setting themselves on fire are not idiots? They are just dead before their given and allotted time? Then I'll go with idiotic self-less beings. How's that? A win-win.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Its saying.... i would have no issue if they set themselves on fire as a protest LIKE the idiot buddhist who did it. .......how hard is that to understand sky?

I, like you, dont think they have any intentions of doing any such thing.... they love themselves to much.

The Buddhists who are self-immolating are bodhisattvas. They are selfless beings.
They are not idiots.

Truth is you're all for killing anyone you think is an idiot.

So, the Buddhists who are setting themselves on fire are not idiots? They are just dead before their given and allotted time? Then I'll go with idiotic self-less beings. How's that? A win-win.

You can think whatever you choose to about them. Obviously, you don't understand the motivation of those Buddhist monks and like to call people idiots, even great bodhisattvas.

 

[Ropey]

The Buddhists who are self-immolating are bodhisattvas. They are selfless beings.
They are not idiots.

Truth is you're all for killing anyone you think is an idiot.

So, the Buddhists who are setting themselves on fire are not idiots? They are just dead before their given and allotted time? Then I'll go with idiotic self-less beings. How's that? A win-win.

You can think whatever you choose to about them. Obviously, you don't understand the motivation of those Buddhist monks and like to call people idiots, even great bodhisattvas.

I do and I just said it. I agreed with you that they might well be selfless beings. They were not the creators of that moment of life from nothing and so I believe it is an idiotic thing to throw away something such as one's own life.

They take it away on their own choice. That's fine and I fully support their every right to fire themselves up as long as they do not hurt others. Obviously you can not move from a one-sided slant and see that there's more than one way to look at things Sky.

I see your side and agree that they might be selfless beings. You however, can't see the differing views of others as anything but an attack on your view.

 

[Ravi]

UC Davis' embattled chancellor said campus police officers defied her orders when they used pepper spray on peaceful Occupy protesters last week.

Very interesting. Don't suppose that changes anybody's perception of said event.

UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

In an interview with the Sacramento Bee, Katehi said her office told the school's police department that officers needed to be peaceful when removing protesters.

"We told the police to remove the tents or the equipment," she told the paper. "We told them very specifically to do it peacefully, and if there were too many of them, not to do it, if the students were aggressive, not to do it. And then we told them we also do not want to have another Berkeley."

In a telephone interview from New York, Bratton said he hoped to meet Yudof's request for "an outside, independent investigation and try to ascertain exactly what happened." He said his experiences in Los Angeles, where he was police chief for seven years until 2009, provided "no shortage of controversial incidents."

My perspective is I wasn't there and I don't have ALL the facts, I didn't see any of the events, except one, leading up to the incident including what the cops and protesters were doing, I wasn't the proverbial fly on the wall in her office, the police pre-action briefing room or the OWS planning group. Therefore, not being omnipotent I would like to have all that information before I pass judgement.
Call me crazy but I believe in due process, not trail and conviction by public opinion.

Do you have a link to that video you mentioned?

 

[Cuyo]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

So would it then be safe to say that you have an authoritarian personality?

 

[Amelia]

Move the Police far away from the protests. Them showing up in their 'Call of Duty' Military outfits only increases the chances for violence. The Police seem to be instigating most of the violence these days. Just keep them away and allow the People to protest in peace. Less Police presence will eliminate most of the violence.

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

So would it then be safe to say that you have an authoritarian personality?

It takes an authoritarian personality to think that roads should be clear in case someone needs an ambulance?

I did not know that.

 

[Liability]

Move the police away from the protests?

In other words, do not allow the police to enforce the law?


Then who is going to enforce the law?

Who is going to clear the thoroughfares so that emergency vehicles can get through? Who is going to unblock public pathways so that they are still wheelchair accessible? Who is going to clean the areas so that infectious diseases and parasites aren't spread? ...

So would it then be safe to say that you have an authoritarian personality?

It takes an authoritarian personality to think that roads should be clear in case someone needs an ambulance?

I did not know that.

Who knew?

 

[Ringel05]

Very interesting. Don't suppose that changes anybody's perception of said event.

UC Davis chancellor: Police defied my orders by using pepper spray - latimes.com

My perspective is I wasn't there and I don't have ALL the facts, I didn't see any of the events, except one, leading up to the incident including what the cops and protesters were doing, I wasn't the proverbial fly on the wall in her office, the police pre-action briefing room or the OWS planning group. Therefore, not being omnipotent I would like to have all that information before I pass judgement.
Call me crazy but I believe in due process, not trail and conviction by public opinion.

Do you have a link to that video you mentioned?

I saw it on the new last night so there should be links on Google. I guess I assumed everyone would be paying attention to this and had already seen it. Silly me..........

Here ya go.

Other Side of UC Davis Pepper Spray Controversy - Fox News Video - Fox News

What's interesting is I didn't see it on any other news station but then I might have missed it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

So, the Buddhists who are setting themselves on fire are not idiots? They are just dead before their given and allotted time? Then I'll go with idiotic self-less beings. How's that? A win-win.

You can think whatever you choose to about them. Obviously, you don't understand the motivation of those Buddhist monks and like to call people idiots, even great bodhisattvas.

I do and I just said it. I agreed with you that they might well be selfless beings. They were not the creators of that moment of life from nothing and so I believe it is an idiotic thing to throw away something such as one's own life.

They take it away on their own choice. That's fine and I fully support their every right to fire themselves up as long as they do not hurt others. Obviously you can not move from a one-sided slant and see that there's more than one way to look at things Sky.

I see your side and agree that they might be selfless beings. You however, can't see the differing views of others as anything but an attack on your view.

Calling bodhisattvas, "idiotic", may have been one reason I failed to see any nuance in your view and took that as an attack. It's very disrespectful, to call self-lessness, "idiotic".

Bodhisattavas are spiritual heroes in Buddhism.

 

[SAT2]

There are no events "leading up to" OWS protestors being sprayed that could mitigate what the cops did. We've seen enough to know that.