What Is Salvation?

[yiostheoy]

Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So God’s plan of salvation is simple. But unprincipled men want to make it complicated so they can gain the world’s admiration for “explaining the deep things of God.” In reality, they are attempting to establish a following of people who will worship and financially support them.

Bonzi , so you are starting your discussion by quoting St. Paul, who was the least of all the disciples, he even tells us so himself.

Why don't you start with a direct quote of Jesus himself instead? Try looking in Matthew Chap 25.

That's where it talks about works.

 

[yiostheoy]

One of the first things Jesus taught when he began his ministry was:

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

He didn't teach that we should repent after we have been saved but that by repenting you can obtain the forgiveness of God through the atonement of Jesus Christ that will allow you to gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

A very misunderstood verse in the Bible is:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is true that our works do not save us. But this does not mean that Jesus does not require a work at our hand. Verse eight tells us that we are saved by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. It is only in and through His grace that we are saved. But the verse also mentions that we must receive this grace through faith if we are to be saved. The Apostle James tells us that works are a part of faith:

James 2:14-24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Faith without works is dead says the Apostle of Jesus Christ. A true faith includes good works. Jesus requires that through faith we can receive the mercy. It isn't the works that save us. We could do all things in faith with all manner of good works and it would avail us nothing without the mercy of Jesus Christ. Thus we become unprofitable servants. The works don't save us but they are required of us. Thus verse 8 tells us that we are not saved by works and nobody can boast that they are saved by their works. Faith doesn't save us either even though it is through faith that we can obtain grace. The grace is the only thing that saves us. But this does not mean that God cannot require that we have faith which includes good works before he will grant his saving grace. Thus Matthew 7:21 above holds true that only he who does the will of our father in heaven will be saved into the kingdom of heaven.

For the very next verse in Ephesians says:

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We shall all receive the salvation of resurrection from the dead and become immortal whether we are just or unjust. This is a gift without requirements given by the Lord.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Those who will inherit the kingdom of heaven will resurrect in the morning of the first resurrection or the resurrection of the just. Those who are unjust will resurrect in the second resurrection after the millennium.

Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John 5:29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

But to inherit the kingdom of heaven, a work is required of us. We must exercise faith unto repentance. Those who repent in this life and come unto Jesus will be saved in his kingdom. Those who reject him and continue in their wickedness will be sent to another kingdom. But there is hope for all of us. Jesus died that we might have the chance to repent of our sins and come unto him. So we should take heed to what he first began to teach:

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

and to exercise faith unto repentance which includes doing good to your neighbor.

You left out Matthew Chap 25.

Did you do that on purpose?

Or have you never heard of it yet?

 

[yiostheoy]

billions of dollars are spent each year trying to convert uneducated Jews…information like this is critical to clearly explaining to our people why we have rejected the ridiculous doctrines of other religions and cults for thousands of years.

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/01/2...ver-2000-years-a-must-read-for-every-jew.html

Actually I am happy for the Jews to live their own religion.

Don't need more Catholics out of Jews.

We have plenty already.

 

[yiostheoy]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe: Essay #1: No Vicarious Atonement



Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16, NIV)

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezekiel 18:20, NIV)

Therefore, Christians wrong to say that Jesus died for our sins

the goyim of that time were totally ignorant of torah, so when in 325 ce when yeshu was name a god man the goy ate it up since the story was just like their pagan beliefs of gods impregnating humans, rising from the dead savior of the world etc, The torah speak of the messiah as a human without any supernatural abilities an nowhere about a failed god man who has to come back , they even misuse Isaiah 53 which is a Hebrew text and has nothing to do with the goyim
Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant
Cutting through the distortions and mistranslations of this enigmatic tex

Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant

By 325 AD the Christian faith had become so widespread in the Roman Empire that even Constantine's mother and father were Christian by then.

 

[yiostheoy]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe: Essay #1: No Vicarious Atonement



Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16, NIV)

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezekiel 18:20, NIV)

Therefore, Christians wrong to say that Jesus died for our sins

Jesus is not "any man" - Jesus is God. Part of the Trinity (not specified as such by the actual word Trinity) but God is defined as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God in the form of Man took away our sins, because, he was the ONLY one who could because he is perfect.

Can you find the word TRINITY in the New Testament anywhere ??

I don't think so.

It was invented at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

 

[yiostheoy]

The Bible is clear, and it is consistent: one person cannot die for the sins of another. In other words, the sins committed by one person cannot be wiped out by the punishment given to another. In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses asks Gd to punish him for the sin committed by the people in regards to the Golden Calf. Gd tells Moses that the person who committed the sin is the one who must receive the punishment. Then, in Deuteronomy 24:16, Gd simply states this as a basic principle, 'Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.' This concept is repeated in the Prophets, in Ezekiel 18: 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die... the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.' The prophet Jeremiah looks to the day when the mistaken belief that one man's death atones for another man's sins shall no longer be held by anyone: in Jeremiah 31:29-30, the prophet says: 'In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.'

What Jews Believe: Essay #1: No Vicarious Atonement



Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. (Deuteronomy 24:16, NIV)

The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him. (Ezekiel 18:20, NIV)

Therefore, Christians wrong to say that Jesus died for our sins

What PART of the "Bible" are you referring to?

The Bible is a library comprised of many other books / scrolls.

 

[yiostheoy]

Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So God’s plan of salvation is simple. But unprincipled men want to make it complicated so they can gain the world’s admiration for “explaining the deep things of God.” In reality, they are attempting to establish a following of people who will worship and financially support them.

Sounds like Ted Cruz.

Cruz sure hates Mexicans.

I am sure the Pope would say he is not a Christian either, same as he said about Trump.

 

[alang1216]

Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So God’s plan of salvation is simple. But unprincipled men want to make it complicated so they can gain the world’s admiration for “explaining the deep things of God.” In reality, they are attempting to establish a following of people who will worship and financially support them.

So if I no faith it is because God chose not to give me the gift?

 

[BreezeWood]

Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So God’s plan of salvation is simple. But unprincipled men want to make it complicated so they can gain the world’s admiration for “explaining the deep things of God.” In reality, they are attempting to establish a following of people who will worship and financially support them.

.
What Is Salvation?


anything other than christianity would be better to have a chance for acceptance than the antithesis of the Almighty ...

.

 

[onefour1]

One of the first things Jesus taught when he began his ministry was:

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

He didn't teach that we should repent after we have been saved but that by repenting you can obtain the forgiveness of God through the atonement of Jesus Christ that will allow you to gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

A very misunderstood verse in the Bible is:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

It is true that our works do not save us. But this does not mean that Jesus does not require a work at our hand. Verse eight tells us that we are saved by the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ. It is only in and through His grace that we are saved. But the verse also mentions that we must receive this grace through faith if we are to be saved. The Apostle James tells us that works are a part of faith:

James 2:14-24
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Faith without works is dead says the Apostle of Jesus Christ. A true faith includes good works. Jesus requires that through faith we can receive the mercy. It isn't the works that save us. We could do all things in faith with all manner of good works and it would avail us nothing without the mercy of Jesus Christ. Thus we become unprofitable servants. The works don't save us but they are required of us. Thus verse 8 tells us that we are not saved by works and nobody can boast that they are saved by their works. Faith doesn't save us either even though it is through faith that we can obtain grace. The grace is the only thing that saves us. But this does not mean that God cannot require that we have faith which includes good works before he will grant his saving grace. Thus Matthew 7:21 above holds true that only he who does the will of our father in heaven will be saved into the kingdom of heaven.

For the very next verse in Ephesians says:

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We shall all receive the salvation of resurrection from the dead and become immortal whether we are just or unjust. This is a gift without requirements given by the Lord.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Those who will inherit the kingdom of heaven will resurrect in the morning of the first resurrection or the resurrection of the just. Those who are unjust will resurrect in the second resurrection after the millennium.

Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

John 5:29
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

But to inherit the kingdom of heaven, a work is required of us. We must exercise faith unto repentance. Those who repent in this life and come unto Jesus will be saved in his kingdom. Those who reject him and continue in their wickedness will be sent to another kingdom. But there is hope for all of us. Jesus died that we might have the chance to repent of our sins and come unto him. So we should take heed to what he first began to teach:

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

and to exercise faith unto repentance which includes doing good to your neighbor.

You left out Matthew Chap 25.

Did you do that on purpose?

Or have you never heard of it yet?

Sure, I can include Matthew 25.

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Doing the will of the Lord is the exercise of Faith in him as James 2 tells us. Those who find the Lords mercy are those who are doers of the word and not hearers only.

James 1:22
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

In Matthew 25 we also have the parable of the Talents.

Matthew 25:
14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This parable is a likening of the callings, talents, and gifts that the Lord gives each one of us. Do we use our time and talents to bring others to the Lord? Have we been faithful unto the performing of good works? On this we will be judged.

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

But our works do not save us but only fulfill the requirement of the Lord before he will grant us his mercy unto salvation. In this we are unprofitable servants. But in the parable of the Talents the unprofitable servant was he who did not fulfill the requirement of he Lord. He buried his talent and did not do the works of faith. If this servant did all that he could have done, without the Lord, he would still have been unprofitable in regard to salvation. But with the Lord, he could obtain the kingdom if he fulfilled the requirement of the Lord if the Lord grants him the mercy he needs. The servants who are profitable in doing the will of the Lord are unprofitable to save themselves. It is only in and through the grace of the Lord that we are saved. But they were profitable in fulfilling the will of the Lord.

Luke 17:10
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

So there you have Matthew 25 quoted.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Moonglow]

Ephesians 2: 8 "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

So God’s plan of salvation is simple. But unprincipled men want to make it complicated so they can gain the world’s admiration for “explaining the deep things of God.” In reality, they are attempting to establish a following of people who will worship and financially support them.

Stop giving your money to Creflo Dollar...

 

[Moonglow]

So, since all your sins are forgiven past, present and future once you accept Christ as Lord of your life and the sacrifice for your sins, there is no more need to ask for forgiveness (think "confessionals") - it is finished! You are totally forgiven for everything!

I have always asked for forgiveness in my prayers..guess it's "insurance..."

Thank you for posting your inspiring words and reminding us of the greatest LOVE of all, God giving us Jesus and HE in turn sacrificed his earthly life for our souls. Whatever greatest gift could be given?

What I do is ask for God to give me strength - so that I can be a better ambassador for Him. I know he see's me through the blood of Jesus and I'm forgiven, so, when I fail, I just ask for the Holy Spirit to burst through and take over to help me out!

really, today is that day? But yesterday's inequities are gone?

 

[skye]

So, since all your sins are forgiven past, present and future once you accept Christ as Lord of your life and the sacrifice for your sins, there is no more need to ask for forgiveness (think "confessionals") - it is finished! You are totally forgiven for everything!

Yes, and then He added: “Go and sin no more."

 

[Meriweather]

So, since all your sins are forgiven past, present and future once you accept Christ as Lord of your life and the sacrifice for your sins, there is no more need to ask for forgiveness (think "confessionals") - it is finished! You are totally forgiven for everything!

Yes, and then He added: “Go and sin no more."

"Go and sin no more" is the very heart of what Jesus taught--Repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Repentance is turning from disobedience/sin to obedience. But...what if we sin again. Then we confess the sin/wrong doing, make the best restitution we can, resolve not to sin again, and hopefully replace the sin behavior with a specific better behavior.