What is accomplished by prayer?

[Meriweather]

I don't know the answer. If I knew, I would not have asked.

What I saw in your post was a two-step. You say my representation of your logic is different than your logic. But you can't say why, eh? Interesting.

The fact is that your "logic" is so far off base it's not worth addressing. It would be like diving into a lake to retrieve a golf ball. Perhaps when you are able to hit closer to the mark, or on a day I have more patience and feel like going for a swim. Meanwhile, I prefer discussing the topic, not what you find wrong with me. That's my mother's job.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I don't know the answer. If I knew, I would not have asked.

What I saw in your post was a two-step. You say my representation of your logic is different than your logic. But you can't say why, eh? Interesting.

The fact is that your "logic" is so far off base it's not worth addressing. It would be like diving into a lake to retrieve a golf ball. Perhaps when you are able to hit closer to the mark, or on a day I have more patience and feel like going for a swim. Meanwhile, I prefer discussing the topic, not what you find wrong with me. That's my mother's job.

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint. So you started doing this little dance. It' all right there in black amd white, for the whole world to see. Clearly, if you were able to fashion any sort of counterpoint, doing so would have consumed less time and effort thanthe many posts you have made designed solely to avoid doing it.

And if you wanted to discuss the topic, you would have addressed my point, which was not about you. It was about the terrible argument you introduced. So, discuss the topic, and address my point.

 

[Meriweather]

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint.

Sure, you go with that. I'm moving on.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint.

Sure, you go with that. I'm moving on.

I will, as will any rational person reading our exchange. You are either completely incapable of fashioning or unwilling to fashion any sort of counterpoint. But you'll post 20 times claiming to have one, haha

 

[ding]

What is accomplished by prayer? It alters the fabric of your identity.

 

[Moonglow]

It's a way to verbalize or mentally transfer the problem to another source, a psychological pressure relief mechanism...

 

[ding]

Good grief. God knew it was a healthy practice, just as not eating pork and shellfish was.
Dufus, you better start thinking outside your tiny bubble, you keep displaying your ignorance on the topic.

"God knew it was a healthy practice, "

For you to accuse anyone of not thinking outside a bubble is laughable at best, dishonest and nauseating at worst. You are the creep who thinks he can take any of our hard earned knowledge and contort it to fit your bronze age delusions. And the knowledge you can't squeeed into your own little sky wizard bubble, you reject. You are dishonest, anti-intellectual, and childish.

Why do you hate science? Circumcision helps prevent people from dying a horrible death. That's why the practice was started by God 3,000 years ago.

See what I mean? There is something wrong with your brain. I think it is idiotic to claim the sky wizard suggested circumcision because he knew the health benefits is an absurd idea, therefore I hate science? You sound like a goddamn moron.

Why wouldn't the creator of the universe who holds every atom together by his word not know circumcision prevents disease? You think someone 3,000 years ago thought the practice would be fun for adult males and mere coincidence it saves lives too?

You obviously cannot think for yourself.

Because that sky wizard you just made up does not exist. Duh. While gods may exist, I think we can be fairly certain that your evil, stupid Bible God is a scam.

Dude, you're a militant atheist.

Just so you know the company you keep.

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)

Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844
3rd paragraph

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"God knew it was a healthy practice, "

For you to accuse anyone of not thinking outside a bubble is laughable at best, dishonest and nauseating at worst. You are the creep who thinks he can take any of our hard earned knowledge and contort it to fit your bronze age delusions. And the knowledge you can't squeeed into your own little sky wizard bubble, you reject. You are dishonest, anti-intellectual, and childish.

Why do you hate science? Circumcision helps prevent people from dying a horrible death. That's why the practice was started by God 3,000 years ago.

See what I mean? There is something wrong with your brain. I think it is idiotic to claim the sky wizard suggested circumcision because he knew the health benefits is an absurd idea, therefore I hate science? You sound like a goddamn moron.

Why wouldn't the creator of the universe who holds every atom together by his word not know circumcision prevents disease? You think someone 3,000 years ago thought the practice would be fun for adult males and mere coincidence it saves lives too?

You obviously cannot think for yourself.

Because that sky wizard you just made up does not exist. Duh. While gods may exist, I think we can be fairly certain that your evil, stupid Bible God is a scam.

Dude, you're a militant atheist.

Just so you know the company you keep.

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)

Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844
3rd paragraph

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

Damn that was a stupid post. For one, I think you might need to stop eatong Drama Flakes for breakfast, if you think I am "militant". Second, it is embarrassing to see a grown man make such an idiotic transgression of logic. As if sharing atheism with another person means I share anything else with them. By the same logic, you should be put down like a dog, before you blow yourself up at a bus stop. Embarrassing. If all religious nutballs come armed with the poor arguments that you possess, their future is not bright.

 

[ding]

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint.

Sure, you go with that. I'm moving on.

I will, as will any rational person reading our exchange. You are either completely incapable of fashioning or unwilling to fashion any sort of counterpoint. But you'll post 20 times claiming to have one, haha

I'm a rational person. More so than you. You are driven by emotions and confirmation bias. In fact, the only reason you troll religious threads is to seek confrontation for the express purpose of validating your beliefs. I have no such need which is why I can be rational.

Just to save us some time let me tell you now that you practice what is called critical theory. Critical theory is a Cultural Marxist creation where they married Freud with Marx for the express purpose of using behavior science as a way to promote Marxism. Critical Theory is the practice to criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you never do.

 

[ding]

Why do you hate science? Circumcision helps prevent people from dying a horrible death. That's why the practice was started by God 3,000 years ago.

See what I mean? There is something wrong with your brain. I think it is idiotic to claim the sky wizard suggested circumcision because he knew the health benefits is an absurd idea, therefore I hate science? You sound like a goddamn moron.

Why wouldn't the creator of the universe who holds every atom together by his word not know circumcision prevents disease? You think someone 3,000 years ago thought the practice would be fun for adult males and mere coincidence it saves lives too?

You obviously cannot think for yourself.

Because that sky wizard you just made up does not exist. Duh. While gods may exist, I think we can be fairly certain that your evil, stupid Bible God is a scam.

Dude, you're a militant atheist.

Just so you know the company you keep.

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)

Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844
3rd paragraph

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

Damn that was a stupid post. For one, I think you might need to stop eatong Drama Flakes for breakfast, if you think I am "militant". Second, it is embarrassing to see a grown man make such an idiotic transgression of logic. As if sharing atheism with another person means I share anything else with them. By the same logic, you should be put down like a dog, before you blow yourself up at a bus stop. Embarrassing. If all religious nutballs come armed with the poor arguments that you possess, their future is not bright.

What's that, Karl?

 

[Mudda]

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint.

Sure, you go with that. I'm moving on.

I will, as will any rational person reading our exchange. You are either completely incapable of fashioning or unwilling to fashion any sort of counterpoint. But you'll post 20 times claiming to have one, haha

I'm a rational person. More so than you. You are driven by emotions and confirmation bias. In fact, the only reason you troll religious threads is to seek confrontation for the express purpose of validating your beliefs. I have no such need which is why I can be rational.

Just to save us some time let me tell you now that you practice what is called critical theory. Critical theory is a Cultural Marxist creation where they married Freud with Marx for the express purpose of using behavior science as a way to promote Marxism. Critical Theory is the practice to criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you never do.

How can he be confusing critical thinking to something that he's never heard of?

 

[ding]

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul

 

[Mudda]

What is accomplished by prayer? It alters the fabric of your identity.

Turns you into a fool for believing in pretend things?

 

[Mudda]

The only thing accomplished by prayer is the realization that you or someone else is up shit's creek.

 

[Mudda]

Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before putting their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Dr. Ron Paul

So you're saying that the pedophile priests, the Joel Osteens, the fags hating evangelical pastors who turn out to be having gay sex... That's the morality that you adhere to?

 

[ding]

Socialism intentionally denies examination because it is irrational. There is no formal defined dogma of socialism. Instead there is only a vague, rosy notion of something good, noble and just: the advent of these things will bring instant euphoria and a social order beyond reproach. Socialism seeks equality through uniformity and communal ownership Socialism has an extraordinary ability to incite and inflame its adherents and inspire social movements. Socialists dismiss their defeats and ignore their incongruities. They desire big government and use big government to implement their morally relativistic social policies. Socialism is a religion. The religious nature of socialism explains their hostility towards traditional religions which is that of one rival religion over another. Their dogma is based on materialism, primitive instincts, atheism and the deification of man. They see no distinction between good and evil, no morality or any other kind of value, save pleasure. They practice moral relativity, indiscriminate indiscriminateness, multiculturalism, cultural Marxism and normalization of deviance. They worship science but are the first to reject it when it suits their purposes. They can be identified by an external locus of control. Their religious doctrine is abolition of private property, abolition of family, abolition of religion and equality via uniformity and communal ownership. They practice critical theory which is the Cultural Marxist theory to criticize what they do not believe to arrive at what they do believe without ever having to examine what they believe. They confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something they never do.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You're not fooling anyone. I doubt you even fool yourself. No, here's what happened: You found my point to be "icky", then realized you had no good counterpoint.

Sure, you go with that. I'm moving on.

I will, as will any rational person reading our exchange. You are either completely incapable of fashioning or unwilling to fashion any sort of counterpoint. But you'll post 20 times claiming to have one, haha

I'm a rational person. More so than you. You are driven by emotions and confirmation bias. In fact, the only reason you troll religious threads is to seek confrontation for the express purpose of validating your beliefs. I have no such need which is why I can be rational.

Just to save us some time let me tell you now that you practice what is called critical theory. Critical theory is a Cultural Marxist creation where they married Freud with Marx for the express purpose of using behavior science as a way to promote Marxism. Critical Theory is the practice to criticize what you do not believe to arrive at what you do believe without ever having to examine what you believe. You confuse critical theory for critical thinking. Critical thinking is the practice of challenging what one does believe to test its validity. Something you never do.

I'm not trolling. I had good discussions. You are trolling. And here you are, complaining about my critical thinking. Instead of trolling, apply your awesome critical thinking and meet my argument with argument. Step on up.

 

[ding]

uh huh

 

[Michelle420]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

I am not sure anymore. But haven't given up all hope yet.

 

[Weatherman2020]

"God knew it was a healthy practice, "

For you to accuse anyone of not thinking outside a bubble is laughable at best, dishonest and nauseating at worst. You are the creep who thinks he can take any of our hard earned knowledge and contort it to fit your bronze age delusions. And the knowledge you can't squeeed into your own little sky wizard bubble, you reject. You are dishonest, anti-intellectual, and childish.

Why do you hate science? Circumcision helps prevent people from dying a horrible death. That's why the practice was started by God 3,000 years ago.

See what I mean? There is something wrong with your brain. I think it is idiotic to claim the sky wizard suggested circumcision because he knew the health benefits is an absurd idea, therefore I hate science? You sound like a goddamn moron.

Why wouldn't the creator of the universe who holds every atom together by his word not know circumcision prevents disease? You think someone 3,000 years ago thought the practice would be fun for adult males and mere coincidence it saves lives too?

You obviously cannot think for yourself.

Because that sky wizard you just made up does not exist. Duh. While gods may exist, I think we can be fairly certain that your evil, stupid Bible God is a scam.

Dude, you're a militant atheist.

Just so you know the company you keep.

...in order to charm the golden birds, out of the pockets of his dearly beloved neighbours in Christ. He puts himself at the service of the other’s most depraved fancies, plays the pimp between him and his need, excites in him morbid appetites, lies in wait for each of his weaknesses – all so that he can then demand the cash for this service of love. (Every product is a bait with which to seduce away the other’s very being, his money; every real and possible need is a weakness which will lead the fly to the glue-pot. General exploitation of communal human nature, just as every imperfection in man, is a bond with heaven – an avenue giving the priest access to his heart; every need is an opportunity to approach one’s neighbour under the guise of the utmost amiability and to say to him: Dear friend, I give you what you need, but you know the conditio sine qua non; you know the ink in which you have to sign yourself over to me; in providing for your pleasure, I fleece you.)

Karl Marx
Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844
3rd paragraph

Human Requirements and Division of Labour, Marx, 1844

Yep. If it was up to him he'd imprison all believers.