What human cost is acceptable in controlling illegal immigration?

[TemplarKormac]

Coyote asked that question at the height of the child separation/illegal immigration issue:

What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

Now, after the death of Mollie Tibbetts at the hands of an illegal immigrant, I feel obliged to ask that question myself. What is the cost? How many American lives must perish at the hands of violent illegal immigrants before we realize how vital controlling our southern border is?

Do you really want to abolish ICE? Given this?

Mollie Tibbetts was killed by an illegal immigrant. So, why can't we enforce our borders? Because it's "inhumane" and "racist". We're wrong for taking the children from their parents at the border. This illegal immigrant just took a daughter away from her parents. Forever.

I've had just about enough. What will the human...no...the American cost be?

 

[rightwinger]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

 

[Coyote]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

This.


And does the vile act of one person, destroying a family through murder justify the tearing apart of other families at the border? No,

 

[Coyote]

And no one is arguing against enforcing border control. That is a straw an. The argument is against a specific policy that goes to far.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

 

[TemplarKormac]

And no one is arguing against enforcing border control. That is a straw an. The argument is against a specific policy that goes to far.

Like abolishing ICE?

 

[Coyote]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

Jaywalkers aren’t law abiding citizens.

No one thinks they are all angels. They aren’t all devils either.

And yes violent felons should be deported. I think that is something most agree on.

 

[Coyote]

And no one is arguing against enforcing border control. That is a straw an. The argument is against a specific policy that goes to far.

Like abolishing ICE?

ICE might be abolished but the job it does still needs to be done. So there will be another acronym to replace it.

The specific policy is not that one, as you well know.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

This.


And does the vile act of one person, destroying a family through murder justify the tearing apart of other families at the border? No,

Curious, it happens on both ends, but it seems to me that one act of family separation is more cruel than the other. One act is done by the government, the other by a "protected class" as it were.

Huh?

 

[TemplarKormac]

And yes violent felons should be deported. I think that is something most agree on.

I'm glad you clarified that.

 

[Coyote]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

This.


And does the vile act of one person, destroying a family through murder justify the tearing apart of other families at the border? No,

Curious, it happens on both ends, but it seems to me that one act of family separation is more cruel than the other.

Huh?

It doesn’t have to be an either or you know.

It is like saying one act of violence (murder) is more cruel than another (rape). Does it matter which is more cruel when both are vile? Does it justify the “less cruel” act?

 

[rightwinger]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

They are breaking a law that is the equivalent of trespassing

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And no one is arguing against enforcing border control. That is a straw an. The argument is against a specific policy that goes to far.

Any policy which willfully allows invading foreign criminals, when caught, to remain in this country, does not go nearly far enough.

 

[rightwinger]

The implication is that if we did not have ten million illegals, one of them may not have killed someone

There are murders in all demographic groups.
Blaming the whole group by extension is ridiculous

 

[TemplarKormac]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

They are breaking a law that is the equivalent of trespassing

Ha. Don't assault me with your half assed arguments, RW. Violating the sovereignty of another nation by illegally crossing its borders is more akin to invasion than trespassing.

And please, don't try to downplay the severity of the offense. I hate to break it to you, but when the law works properly, the law deals in absolutes.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The implication is that if we did not have ten million illegals, one of them may not have killed someone

So, what is the point of putting words in my mouth?

Apparently you don't understand English as well as I thought you did. When I say "violent illegal immigrant" I am NOT implying that of all 10 million.

Clear?

 

[gulfman]

The implication is that if we did not have ten million illegals, one of them may not have killed someone

There are murders in all demographic groups.
Blaming the whole group by extension is ridiculous

Just because 99% of the illegals are criminals we shouldn't blame all of them

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

Wrong.

An undocumented immigrant is not ‘illegal’ until such time as he has been found guilty in a court of law of entering the country absent authorization.

And those entering the country seeking asylum as refugees have the right to apply for asylum and are not ‘illegal’ until a determination is made with regard to their application for asylum; entering the country as a refugee seeking asylum is not a violation of immigration law.

Your thread premise fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

That an immigrant might be undocumented doesn’t mean he’s ‘illegal,’ nor does it mean he is ‘predisposed’ to criminality or crime, and it does not mean he has a disregard for the law.

Indeed, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes:

“Undocumented immigrants are considerably less likely to commit crime than native-born citizens, with immigrants legally in the United States even less likely to do so. A number of studies published in the past several months clearly illustrate the consensus.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/two-charts-demolish-the-notion-that-immigrants-here-illegally-commit-more-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b82679014d55

 

[gulfman]

And what about that poor old 95 year old Nazi guard that got deported?His kids and grand kids are separated from him now.No wonder the liberals want to get rid of I.C.E.

 

[Coyote]

So are 10 million illegals responsible for the criminal act of one?

Yanno, that's not what I said at all. So, I'll ask you this, are they all law abiding citizens? None of them are, given they broke the law to get here.

You'll be shocked to know that not all illegal immigrants are angels. Some, like the guy who killed Tibbetts, or the guy who killed Kate Steinle are violent felons. Do you want those types here in the country?

Apparently you do.

They are breaking a law that is the equivalent of trespassing

Ha. Don't assault me with your half assed arguments, RW. Violating the sovereignty of another nation by illegally crossing its borders is more akin to invasion than trespassing.

And please, don't try to downplay the severity of the offense. I hate to break it to you, but when the law works properly, the law deals in absolutes.

No. An invasion is when a state sends people. These are migrants, either economic or fleeing intolerable conditions. Calling them invaders is just demonizing and dehumanizing them.