What experiences in high school affected you so much that it altered your future?

[Unkotare]

There is less acceptance of bullying now than in the past as well. In the old days teachers and parents would tell kids to suck it up and hope the young person learns a life lesson in coping with the situation. This coping would often take the form of a fist in the face, but sometimes it would involve just persevering. Today, allegations of bullying are taken quite seriously in the schools and in society. It's gone so far that grown men and women complain of "bullying" like wounded children over every minor inconsideration.

 

[Unkotare]

Regarding the "total outcast" bit, I need to add that there is a degree of personal responsibility there as well. Anyone who is a "total outcast" has, to a degree, cast himself out. Kids can be mean because they are so fundamentally insecure, but even kids with unusual interests usually gravitate to each other eventually. Someone with NO friends usually hasn't tried very hard to make friends. Not that any of this excuses kids being cruel to each other, but there are shades of nuance to all this.

 

[Unkotare]

....

I just don't think this 19th century idea of creating a robotic institution where kids barely out of infancy are force-marched in to a cookie-cutter factory, told to stifle their energy, sit down, shut up, switch off their individuality, suppress their creativity, .....

That is, of course, nonsense. American education does not "stifle creativity." If you look at many of the countries with which American students are unfavorably compared, you will find much less emphasis on creativity and much more emphasis on high-stakes tests and other things people cry about today. Each year, a great many Chinese families send their children to study in American schools and often cite the greater emphasis on creativity as one presumed benefit.

 

[Unkotare]

.... stifle their energy, sit down, shut up, switch off their individuality, suppress their creativity, conform, assume the position to sponge up the required indoctrination and judge each other in some vast phony social striation is an idea that has merit. As far as the question of what to do about it, I'd go all the way back to basics. SO much is lost in that poisonous environment.

Ever since the late 60s, every ten years or so some yahoo gets all excited about TPR, and next thing you know kids are sitting on the floor, running around doing nothing in particular, holding hands and not learning a thing. Failed hippy pedagogy.

 

[Pogo]

There is less acceptance of bullying now than in the past as well. In the old days teachers and parents would tell kids to suck it up and hope the young person learns a life lesson in coping with the situation. This coping would often take the form of a fist in the face, but sometimes it would involve just persevering. Today, allegations of bullying are taken quite seriously in the schools and in society. It's gone so far that grown men and women complain of "bullying" like wounded children over every minor inconsideration.

That whiny torrent of rhetorical diarrhea every time somebody calls out your trolling for example.

Poster please. Adults are talking. Go play with your GI Joe doll.

 

[Unkotare]

There is less acceptance of bullying now than in the past as well. In the old days teachers and parents would tell kids to suck it up and hope the young person learns a life lesson in coping with the situation. This coping would often take the form of a fist in the face, but sometimes it would involve just persevering. Today, allegations of bullying are taken quite seriously in the schools and in society. It's gone so far that grown men and women complain of "bullying" like wounded children over every minor inconsideration.

That whiny torrent of rhetorical diarrhea every time somebody calls out your trolling for example.

Poster please. Adults are talking. .....

That's an interesting take considering that I may be older than you, and I certainly know more about education. Don't be intimidated, but do pay attention.

 

[Andylusion]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

I absolutely hated school. Hate the people there. Hated the kids. Hated the teachers. I would be hard pressed to come up with anything good about that prison camp.

I was an outcast of outcasts. I didn't fit in anywhere. I wasn't particularly athletic. I most certainly wasn't that smart. I wasn't even nerdy enough to be a nerd. Not popular enough, to be with the "in crowd". Not rebellious enough to be the the rebels. With no one to defend me, I was an easy target. And kids love nothing more, than an easy target to pick on, that no one will stand up for. That was me. As a service to the entire schools pride and ego.

And the teachers were no better. Had one of the popular girls, enjoy some fun at my expense in class, until I finally snapped at her, calling her a cow. (which for me, is about a vulgar as I get). The teacher who had been there the entire time, gave me detention, and let her go. Had another time where I was required to give a class presentation, only to get heckled and mocked from a guy in the front of the class. After enduring insult after insult, I looked up to see the teacher just sitting back in his chair smilingly brilliantly at me, as if to say 'well sucks to be you loser'.

That isn't to say it didn't work for some people, I'm sure. I knew of people who enjoyed school, and more power to them.

But it most certainly didn't work for me. Unfortunately, my well intentioned parents, were both public school teachers. Both were firm in their unwavering support of the school system.

To be fair to them, I can't blame them for that. It would be nearly impossible to spend your entire working life in a system you didn't believe in. Between the two of them, I wager they put in about 85 years into the system.

Regardless, the result was that the abuse I suffered at school, was met with skepticism and dismissed. I was told I was 'being negative' and that I was just misunderstanding the people who harassed and abused me on a routine basis.

This was particularly bad for my poor mother. Again, it's hard to not give her some a fair shake, because after all... she's kept in touch with every single person she went to high school with, even to this day. Now in her mid-70s, she still hasn't missed a high school reunion. I have not spoken with a single person from my school, in 20 years. Now, I don't think I would be able to, since I can't remember a single person's name from my school.

But my mother never understood the extreme wedge that she unintentionally created between us. She complained constantly that I never talked to her, but then.... who ever wants to talk to someone, who never believes anything they say? Why bother talking to a mother who will simply deny your pain, and claim you are just making it up because you are so negative.

It is impossible to calculate the damage public school did. One of the reasons I never wanted, and never will, have children is because I can't stand the idea of putting a child through, what I went through.

Nevertheless, I have a unique and burning hatred for public schools. It's a fire I'll likely carry to my grave. When I argue here against schools, I try and keep it based on the facts, like low education outcomes, and the high cost.

But the reality is, I think nearly ever public school should be burned to the ground with thermite, and then turned into a land fill. Too many students are abused in public schools, and no one does anything about it.

One of the reasons I support private schools, is because in a private school, a student is also a customer. Teachers that abuse kids the way I was abused, would be fired, because they would cause the school to lose money. Public schools couldn't care less. They lose nothing, if you remove your kid from their school. They got your tax money, whether you are happy or not. Same is true of school bullying. Not all, but many private schools have strict rules against bullying, because again, a student that leaves, is bad for business.

Anywho.... terrible experience, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even those I don't like.

First of all, I believe you, and I'm sorry.

I can excuse teachers being overwhelmed. It's an easily overwhelming job. But I cannot excuse cruelty.

But I hope you realize you do just what your parents do when you want all public schools "burnt to the ground". Perhaps your parents dismissed your experience. It sounds like they certainly did. You're not dismissing a lot of kids' decent, if not good or great, experience by wanting to "burn the schools to the ground". Isn't that exactly what your parents did? Taking YOUR experience and extrapoling it to everyone?

True...... however the cruelty and evil that is inflicted upon the minority of students, for the sake of the majority who enjoy it... is not a good excuse to me.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, none whatsoever.... that those students who were cruel, and evil, and abusive to me for over a decade of my life..... likely greatly enjoyed their school experience.

And why would they not.... After all, they had their group of friends that stood up for them. That overlooked their abuse. That defended them no matter what. And teachers that take sides, rather than enforce what is right.

How much different school life must be, when you can chuck rocks and sticks at outcasts, sending them to the hospital, forcing them to wear an eye patch for weeks, and all your friends happily surround you when questioned, and insist you had nothing to do with it.

I was standing by myself minding my own business, when I was hit directly in the eye, rush to a hospital, and for the next few months wearing an eye patch. You ever had a stick or whatever it was, jammed into your eye socket? The laughs.... snickers... and no one owned up to it. An accident. Still don't know who did it. And no one was penalized.

It was laughable the number of "accidents" that happened during my school time. I had the fun experience of doing the 'trust fall'. If you don't know what that is, which a video on it. You just fall backward into people who will catch you. As the name implies, trusting they will catch you. While kids much heavier than me, were caught, and put back on the feet, I found myself laying on the ground, while those standing around snickered and laughed. Another accident.

I never considered myself smart, but even the most stupid of people knows a pattern when you see it.

Great fun for all those people. I'm sure school was an endless euphoric joy, for those happy students. Like you said, I'm sure they had a fantastic time.

But it wasn't just that I had people who enjoyed making me miserable, it was not not one would even stand up for the outcast being abused. Not once in all the years I was in public schools, not even one time, did a teacher or a student, ever stand and say "Hey.... leave him alone". If that had happened one time in my entire life, I wager I would have a different view than I do today.

So whether they directly engaged in abuse, or were merely intentionally overlooking it... all those happy joyful students, and the teachers who did nothing to stop it... are all guilty. All of them.

You don't need to worry about this old man now.... I am too old to do anything crazy, and I certainly follow the law. But don't think if they ever made it legal, that I wouldn't be the first to douse that building with all the gasoline I could afford to buy, and then for the first time, really enjoy a school bon fire.

I hear you. We should make a difference but how can we now? One poster said he would not have children for fear of him being treated the same way. He is the ONE that needs to have children so he can listen to them and help them if cruel issues arise.

Well I think that is the solution. Eliminate the school system.

I think that by having a more privatized system, that schools would be forced to deal with ensuring that students are treated better. I'm not so oblivious that I think they could have treat them perfectly, but I do believe that schools would gain reputation for how well the students are properly watched, and that abuse would be minimized.

However, even with an imperfect solution, I think that by privatizing the system, that the inherent freedom to choose where your kids go to school (limited by your ability to pay over the value of a voucher), would allow parents the ability to remove their kids from toxic environments. So even if the school itself did not improve, you would more easily be able to move your child to a school that did a better job.

Between parental choice, and the creation of a profit incentive for schools to have a good environment, I think the abuse and negative experience, both in dealing with poorly disciplined students, or bad teachers, would be minimized.

The issue with the current system is that neither the parents, nor the school, has any real incentive to improve things.

There's a 1989 movie, with Morgan Freeman, called Lean on Me. I would encourage you to watch it, because it (being as accurate as a hollywood film can be) does well to illustrate the anti-improvement forces, that hold schools back.

Between faculty, school boards, union teachers, parents, and politicians who only are concerned with what benefits their reelection, nearly all of the hindrances and road blocks that prevent people from improving public schools, nearly all... do not exist in a private system.

So that is my defacto answer.

My case and point example, is New York rubber rooms.

The Rubber Room

When a teacher is so bad at teaching, or has too many complaints against them to allow them in a class room..... and yet still had tenure or Union protections that prevent them from being fired, they are sent to the rubber room. A room where a teacher is paid a full salary, and yet not required to teach.

Can you imagine any situation where any private company paid people to not work for years? Of course not.

But I would argue that it is exactly because unions make it so difficult to get rid of bad teachers, that you have bad teachers.

That's one of many public school based problems, that privatization would end.

 

[AquaAthena]

Jackson, this is such an interesting thread you have made and I have thought about it for days as I tried to think of an answer but to no avail. Nothing comes to mind. I loved high school and was the school singer at the school dances and proms and that did lead me to sing at much larger venues after graduation. It gave me the courage to stand alone and sing in front of 3000 people. I'll NEVER forget the beautiful satin green dress I wore with the sweetheart neckline of black lace over the green fabric. Green has always been my favorite color. lol. But, in school, I was a social butterfly and loved music and musical instruments but only played the piano. Six years of lessons. Music is my life's love. Music takes me to the most soulful place and I am rarely without music playing as I go about my day.

 

[Andylusion]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

I absolutely hated school. Hate the people there. Hated the kids. Hated the teachers. I would be hard pressed to come up with anything good about that prison camp.

I was an outcast of outcasts. I didn't fit in anywhere. I wasn't particularly athletic. I most certainly wasn't that smart. I wasn't even nerdy enough to be a nerd. Not popular enough, to be with the "in crowd". Not rebellious enough to be the the rebels. With no one to defend me, I was an easy target. And kids love nothing more, than an easy target to pick on, that no one will stand up for. That was me. As a service to the entire schools pride and ego.

And the teachers were no better. Had one of the popular girls, enjoy some fun at my expense in class, until I finally snapped at her, calling her a cow. (which for me, is about a vulgar as I get). The teacher who had been there the entire time, gave me detention, and let her go. Had another time where I was required to give a class presentation, only to get heckled and mocked from a guy in the front of the class. After enduring insult after insult, I looked up to see the teacher just sitting back in his chair smilingly brilliantly at me, as if to say 'well sucks to be you loser'.

That isn't to say it didn't work for some people, I'm sure. I knew of people who enjoyed school, and more power to them.

But it most certainly didn't work for me. Unfortunately, my well intentioned parents, were both public school teachers. Both were firm in their unwavering support of the school system.

To be fair to them, I can't blame them for that. It would be nearly impossible to spend your entire working life in a system you didn't believe in. Between the two of them, I wager they put in about 85 years into the system.

Regardless, the result was that the abuse I suffered at school, was met with skepticism and dismissed. I was told I was 'being negative' and that I was just misunderstanding the people who harassed and abused me on a routine basis.

This was particularly bad for my poor mother. Again, it's hard to not give her some a fair shake, because after all... she's kept in touch with every single person she went to high school with, even to this day. Now in her mid-70s, she still hasn't missed a high school reunion. I have not spoken with a single person from my school, in 20 years. Now, I don't think I would be able to, since I can't remember a single person's name from my school.

But my mother never understood the extreme wedge that she unintentionally created between us. She complained constantly that I never talked to her, but then.... who ever wants to talk to someone, who never believes anything they say? Why bother talking to a mother who will simply deny your pain, and claim you are just making it up because you are so negative.

It is impossible to calculate the damage public school did. One of the reasons I never wanted, and never will, have children is because I can't stand the idea of putting a child through, what I went through.

Nevertheless, I have a unique and burning hatred for public schools. It's a fire I'll likely carry to my grave. When I argue here against schools, I try and keep it based on the facts, like low education outcomes, and the high cost.

But the reality is, I think nearly ever public school should be burned to the ground with thermite, and then turned into a land fill. Too many students are abused in public schools, and no one does anything about it.

One of the reasons I support private schools, is because in a private school, a student is also a customer. Teachers that abuse kids the way I was abused, would be fired, because they would cause the school to lose money. Public schools couldn't care less. They lose nothing, if you remove your kid from their school. They got your tax money, whether you are happy or not. Same is true of school bullying. Not all, but many private schools have strict rules against bullying, because again, a student that leaves, is bad for business.

Anywho.... terrible experience, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even those I don't like.

Sounds like a whole lot of blaming everyone else for YOUR failings. Never too late to grow up.

Are you completely devoid of empathy? Did you comprehend what he wrote?

Don't be harsh on Unkotare. Honestly, if you haven't experienced it, how can you understand it? My father for example, had a blast in school. He was popular, part of the wrestling team, smart, one of the cool kids, blaw blaw blaw blaw.

Look at AquaAthena above. She had a blast. What I'm saying must sound like latin to her.

I can still remember him saying in a dozen different conversations, he wished he could be a little mouse in my pocket, because nothing I told him about my experience, could he ever relate to.

Unkotare and I have had our disagreements for sure, but I can't fault him for not understanding something that never happened to him, or even if it may have happened to a lessor extent, but he had people with him. You can brave almost anything, if you have people going through it with you. It's a little different when you are rejected by all.

Generally I would agree with him. I don't make excuses for failures today, because of failures 20 years ago. That's ridiculous.

At the same time, that doesn't mean that events long ago, can't have a life long impact. I remember reading the story of a guy who loved piano, until his father and brother, who were both hunters, came in from hunting to find him playing the piano, and insulted him over it. I can't remember if they called him a sissy or something, or whatever.

But at the age of 13, he never touched a piano again for the rest of his life.

Does that mean we lost a world renowned pianists? Who knows. It's impossible to guess. He might have stopped playing right after high school like my sister did.

Regardless, my goal has never been to eliminate all bad experiences from growing up. Opposition to some extent is actually good for people. Real life is harsh, and you need to have some level of ability to handle criticism. Kids that grow up in entirely padded rooms, with nerf tables and chairs, end up having a mental crisis when they get into the real world, and stub their toe on a metaphoric chair leg at work.

But there is a line between kids bickering at each other, and outright abuse by staff or students. That's where we need to focus our attention.

 

[Andylusion]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

I absolutely hated school. Hate the people there. Hated the kids. Hated the teachers. I would be hard pressed to come up with anything good about that prison camp.

I was an outcast of outcasts. I didn't fit in anywhere. I wasn't particularly athletic. I most certainly wasn't that smart. I wasn't even nerdy enough to be a nerd. Not popular enough, to be with the "in crowd". Not rebellious enough to be the the rebels. With no one to defend me, I was an easy target. And kids love nothing more, than an easy target to pick on, that no one will stand up for. That was me. As a service to the entire schools pride and ego.

And the teachers were no better. Had one of the popular girls, enjoy some fun at my expense in class, until I finally snapped at her, calling her a cow. (which for me, is about a vulgar as I get). The teacher who had been there the entire time, gave me detention, and let her go. Had another time where I was required to give a class presentation, only to get heckled and mocked from a guy in the front of the class. After enduring insult after insult, I looked up to see the teacher just sitting back in his chair smilingly brilliantly at me, as if to say 'well sucks to be you loser'.

That isn't to say it didn't work for some people, I'm sure. I knew of people who enjoyed school, and more power to them.

But it most certainly didn't work for me. Unfortunately, my well intentioned parents, were both public school teachers. Both were firm in their unwavering support of the school system.

To be fair to them, I can't blame them for that. It would be nearly impossible to spend your entire working life in a system you didn't believe in. Between the two of them, I wager they put in about 85 years into the system.

Regardless, the result was that the abuse I suffered at school, was met with skepticism and dismissed. I was told I was 'being negative' and that I was just misunderstanding the people who harassed and abused me on a routine basis.

This was particularly bad for my poor mother. Again, it's hard to not give her some a fair shake, because after all... she's kept in touch with every single person she went to high school with, even to this day. Now in her mid-70s, she still hasn't missed a high school reunion. I have not spoken with a single person from my school, in 20 years. Now, I don't think I would be able to, since I can't remember a single person's name from my school.

But my mother never understood the extreme wedge that she unintentionally created between us. She complained constantly that I never talked to her, but then.... who ever wants to talk to someone, who never believes anything they say? Why bother talking to a mother who will simply deny your pain, and claim you are just making it up because you are so negative.

It is impossible to calculate the damage public school did. One of the reasons I never wanted, and never will, have children is because I can't stand the idea of putting a child through, what I went through.

Nevertheless, I have a unique and burning hatred for public schools. It's a fire I'll likely carry to my grave. When I argue here against schools, I try and keep it based on the facts, like low education outcomes, and the high cost.

But the reality is, I think nearly ever public school should be burned to the ground with thermite, and then turned into a land fill. Too many students are abused in public schools, and no one does anything about it.

One of the reasons I support private schools, is because in a private school, a student is also a customer. Teachers that abuse kids the way I was abused, would be fired, because they would cause the school to lose money. Public schools couldn't care less. They lose nothing, if you remove your kid from their school. They got your tax money, whether you are happy or not. Same is true of school bullying. Not all, but many private schools have strict rules against bullying, because again, a student that leaves, is bad for business.

Andy.... what a terrible experience, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even those I don't like.

Andy, my heart went out to you for those four years of hell. I wasn't sure who was worse...the teachers who did not stop this abuse or your parents attitude. And to think the cuts were so deep that you wouldn't want to have children of your own for fear they would be treated the same way you were, when actually you control your own destiny and your child would not experience the same...you would create an open dialogue where they could come to you with problems.

Did you ever open up to your parents and tell them the pain you experienced?

Let me be fair to all sides... It wasn't school alone. It was part of it, sure. But there are other reasons that extend outside the scope of the thread, that led me to where I am in life.

But sticking to the thread topic.... it was most certainly the teachers that were the most to blame.

My parents were not there. They can listen to me all day long, and while believing it would help, the fact is it's hard to understand something that you can't relate to. It's a tough sell, when you are both teachers, and all your friends are teachers, and your kids is telling you something that seems impossible that no one you know would ever allow in their classroom.

But the teachers.... the teachers were there. With their smiles, and dismissive hand waving, and their condescending "You are just exaggerating", when they were right there in the room when it happened.

And again, as per your topic... I think the solution is to get rid of the public school system. I know that seems harsh, but I am convinced the reason teachers can even have a nonchalant attitude towards the well being of the students, is directly because they won't lose anything. And the reason they won't lose anything, is because the school won't lose anything, and thus administrators don't care.

Let's say my parents believed me.... Alternate reality time... and let's say they removed me from that school. What would the school lose? Nothing. They are collecting the taxes my parents are paying on their property even now, two full decades after I've left that town.

So whether I stay in the system, or not, the politicians, the school administrators, and the school staff, lose nothing. If I leave because the teachers don't care, it matters not in the slightest to those teachers. Why should it? One less student to deal with, right? One less paper to grade.

It is only positives to drive out students. No negatives.

You make that school dependent on the income from people paying for decent education, that entire equation shifts dramatically doesn't it?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

 

[Jackson]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

WOW! There's a person who has no business around kids.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

WOW! There's a person who has no business around kids.

She was like 55 years old short red hair, my first class in high school (I was just tired, ran track, cross country)

I went from a straight A student to a burn out real fast after I heard it..

 

[Unkotare]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

WOW! There's a person who has no business around kids.

She was like 55 years old short red hair, my first class in high school (I was just tired, ran track, cross country)

I went from a straight A student to a burn out real fast after I heard it..

A few words from someone not even related to you changed your entire identity?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

WOW! There's a person who has no business around kids.

She was like 55 years old short red hair, my first class in high school (I was just tired, ran track, cross country)

I went from a straight A student to a burn out real fast after I heard it..

A few words from someone not even related to you changed your entire identity?

I was in 9th grade, a huge introvert/shy..

I never even knew I was cute back then till face book came out 40 years? Later.

I had girlfriends and all..but I could never develop a relationship with a girl in my life


Heck I didn't even know what introvert meant till I read a book about it last year

 

[Wyatt earp]

Words mean something to me, always did I could always comprehend them, but grammar was never strong with me.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

WOW! There's a person who has no business around kids.

She was like 55 years old short red hair, my first class in high school (I was just tired, ran track, cross country)

I went from a straight A student to a burn out real fast after I heard it..

A few words from someone not even related to you changed your entire identity?

Also I remember my kindergarten teacher, I used to be a righty, but became a south paw because of her. Still am.

And I write worse then doctors

Yes teachers had really messed up effects on me, because they didnt understand why I was so quiet..

 

[Wyatt earp]

I thought for years I had a mental illness and I couldn't tell anyone.

.

 

[Andylusion]

I absolutely hated school. Hate the people there. Hated the kids. Hated the teachers. I would be hard pressed to come up with anything good about that prison camp.

I was an outcast of outcasts. I didn't fit in anywhere. I wasn't particularly athletic. I most certainly wasn't that smart. I wasn't even nerdy enough to be a nerd. Not popular enough, to be with the "in crowd". Not rebellious enough to be the the rebels. With no one to defend me, I was an easy target. And kids love nothing more, than an easy target to pick on, that no one will stand up for. That was me. As a service to the entire schools pride and ego.

And the teachers were no better. Had one of the popular girls, enjoy some fun at my expense in class, until I finally snapped at her, calling her a cow. (which for me, is about a vulgar as I get). The teacher who had been there the entire time, gave me detention, and let her go. Had another time where I was required to give a class presentation, only to get heckled and mocked from a guy in the front of the class. After enduring insult after insult, I looked up to see the teacher just sitting back in his chair smilingly brilliantly at me, as if to say 'well sucks to be you loser'.

That isn't to say it didn't work for some people, I'm sure. I knew of people who enjoyed school, and more power to them.

But it most certainly didn't work for me. Unfortunately, my well intentioned parents, were both public school teachers. Both were firm in their unwavering support of the school system.

To be fair to them, I can't blame them for that. It would be nearly impossible to spend your entire working life in a system you didn't believe in. Between the two of them, I wager they put in about 85 years into the system.

Regardless, the result was that the abuse I suffered at school, was met with skepticism and dismissed. I was told I was 'being negative' and that I was just misunderstanding the people who harassed and abused me on a routine basis.

This was particularly bad for my poor mother. Again, it's hard to not give her some a fair shake, because after all... she's kept in touch with every single person she went to high school with, even to this day. Now in her mid-70s, she still hasn't missed a high school reunion. I have not spoken with a single person from my school, in 20 years. Now, I don't think I would be able to, since I can't remember a single person's name from my school.

But my mother never understood the extreme wedge that she unintentionally created between us. She complained constantly that I never talked to her, but then.... who ever wants to talk to someone, who never believes anything they say? Why bother talking to a mother who will simply deny your pain, and claim you are just making it up because you are so negative.

It is impossible to calculate the damage public school did. One of the reasons I never wanted, and never will, have children is because I can't stand the idea of putting a child through, what I went through.

Nevertheless, I have a unique and burning hatred for public schools. It's a fire I'll likely carry to my grave. When I argue here against schools, I try and keep it based on the facts, like low education outcomes, and the high cost.

But the reality is, I think nearly ever public school should be burned to the ground with thermite, and then turned into a land fill. Too many students are abused in public schools, and no one does anything about it.

One of the reasons I support private schools, is because in a private school, a student is also a customer. Teachers that abuse kids the way I was abused, would be fired, because they would cause the school to lose money. Public schools couldn't care less. They lose nothing, if you remove your kid from their school. They got your tax money, whether you are happy or not. Same is true of school bullying. Not all, but many private schools have strict rules against bullying, because again, a student that leaves, is bad for business.

Anywho.... terrible experience, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even those I don't like.

First of all, I believe you, and I'm sorry.

I can excuse teachers being overwhelmed. It's an easily overwhelming job. But I cannot excuse cruelty.

But I hope you realize you do just what your parents do when you want all public schools "burnt to the ground". Perhaps your parents dismissed your experience. It sounds like they certainly did. You're not dismissing a lot of kids' decent, if not good or great, experience by wanting to "burn the schools to the ground". Isn't that exactly what your parents did? Taking YOUR experience and extrapoling it to everyone?

True...... however the cruelty and evil that is inflicted upon the minority of students, for the sake of the majority who enjoy it... is not a good excuse to me.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, none whatsoever.... that those students who were cruel, and evil, and abusive to me for over a decade of my life..... likely greatly enjoyed their school experience.

And why would they not.... After all, they had their group of friends that stood up for them. That overlooked their abuse. That defended them no matter what. And teachers that take sides, rather than enforce what is right.

How much different school life must be, when you can chuck rocks and sticks at outcasts, sending them to the hospital, forcing them to wear an eye patch for weeks, and all your friends happily surround you when questioned, and insist you had nothing to do with it.

I was standing by myself minding my own business, when I was hit directly in the eye, rush to a hospital, and for the next few months wearing an eye patch. You ever had a stick or whatever it was, jammed into your eye socket? The laughs.... snickers... and no one owned up to it. An accident. Still don't know who did it. And no one was penalized.

It was laughable the number of "accidents" that happened during my school time. I had the fun experience of doing the 'trust fall'. If you don't know what that is, which a video on it. You just fall backward into people who will catch you. As the name implies, trusting they will catch you. While kids much heavier than me, were caught, and put back on the feet, I found myself laying on the ground, while those standing around snickered and laughed. Another accident.

I never considered myself smart, but even the most stupid of people knows a pattern when you see it.

Great fun for all those people. I'm sure school was an endless euphoric joy, for those happy students. Like you said, I'm sure they had a fantastic time.

But it wasn't just that I had people who enjoyed making me miserable, it was not not one would even stand up for the outcast being abused. Not once in all the years I was in public schools, not even one time, did a teacher or a student, ever stand and say "Hey.... leave him alone". If that had happened one time in my entire life, I wager I would have a different view than I do today.

So whether they directly engaged in abuse, or were merely intentionally overlooking it... all those happy joyful students, and the teachers who did nothing to stop it... are all guilty. All of them.

You don't need to worry about this old man now.... I too old to do anything crazy, and I certainly follow the law. But don't think if they ever made it legal, that I wouldn't be the first to douse that building with all the gasoline I could afford to buy, and then for the first time, really enjoy a school bon fire.

Here's the thing about forgiveness though. It doesn't do a darn thing for the jerks and cowards you went to school with, especially if you don't have any more contact with them. But it frees you from this bitterness. And you have a lot of bitterness about this for a grown man. That's not good for you.

Right, I'm not seeking revenge on those who are abusive. I'm seeking to end on going abuse. From everything I've seen, things are worse today for the abused students, than it was when I was in school.

You don't think so?

I don't remember anyone committing suicide from school bullying. Yet I've seen several stories about that in recent years. Do you think I'm wrong on that assumption?

There is a lot more awareness on bullying and its horrible effects. That's a positive. however, for whatever reason, there's a lot more suicide, yes. I don't think that's a straight line from bullying though. I think it has at least some of its genesis in the other mysterious uptick in brain disorders going on: autism, bipolar, etc.

I don't see any uptick in autism and bipolar. I really don't. In the past, you simply didn't see or hear about them. People with mental problems, were kept out of the public eye by their families, partially due to their own embarrassment.

Today, we have encouraged the opposite, and thus they are more visible. Similarly, we used to have strict discipline in schools, where people who acted out were taught to not do so. There was no "I'm bipolar, so you can't smack my hands for acting out". You learned to master your emotions, instead of your emotions mastering you... or the teacher would find a tree branch, and smack you with it.

That may seem contradictory, but I am both in favor of teacher enforcing order in the classroom, by force if needed, as much as I'm against the teach being abusive.

As ironic as it sounds, I was horrified even when I was in school 20+ years ago, by how much kids disregarded school rules, and disrespected teachers, all the way back then.

Today, it's worse than I could have imaged. I was working at a charity in down town Columbus. A teacher came in with a bunch of students who volunteered to (not be in school for 3 hours by their own words).

While I was there, I watched student pick on, touch, grab from behind, this woman who was their teacher. No respect. No control. It was as close to a sexual assault as I'd ever seen. And what was worse, was the teacher was clearly from their reaction, used to this. I was biting my tongue until it bled, and about 3 inches from stepping into that situation, and laying down some 200 lbs of pissed of white German law in the room, but right before I snapped their time was up and they left. That was just a few years ago.

Let me ask you straight... if one of your students (I assume you were, or are a teacher based on your posts), come up from behind you, and grab you from behind with their hands just under your breasts, would you respond with.... "Now tom, you need to stop doing that...."? Hmm? Honest answer. What do you think? Public school students, with a public school teacher, who are supposed to be helping with charity.

For all their faults, my parents taught me way better than that (and thank G-d). If I did that, and my father found out, there would have been a greener patch of grass in the backyard... and rightly so. Heck my grandmother would have crawled out of her grave, walked 200 miles to Columbus, and beaten me to death.

Which goes back to my point. The entire system is corrupted. We need to wipe the slate clean, and start over.

 

[Andylusion]

I used to love math. I loved Algebra and Geometry so Algebra 2 should have been a breeze, But the teacher I had was a witch. The only kids she was nice to were athletes and cheerlearders. I was very shy and she saw I had a problem wrong so she told me to go up to the board and do the problem for the rest of the class. Right at the start she began yelling at me and I panicked. I couldn't tell her my name if she asked. I just froze and the louder she got.

Stopped all math at that point. No calc, no trig...no dream of becoming an astronomer.

the next week, I was chewing gum and had to put it on my nose for the rest of the class. Hated that woman.

Mrs Bievergall?

That woman told my mom I would come stonned to school everyday in the 9th grade..


At that time I never even smoked a joint.she told my mom she hated me, it was crazy I was the quietest kid in the class, I just read WWII books

For real? Why in the world would she do that
0.o