Debate Now What does MAGA mean ? Specifically ?

[HikerGuy83]

Or…more accurately, it depends on who you were and when you were.

For example, our healthcare system today is far better for MORE people then what existed 50 years ago.

Our "system" or our technology ?

There is a difference, and once again you are making claims with no metrics.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Those pictures I posted are from when trump was president.

I've reported all but one of your posts and you have consistently violated rule #3 in the OP.

You've violated the other rules too, but that is what I am reporting.

Like IM2 and Rambunctious, you suck at this.

Please get off the thread and start your own threads where you can bash whoever you want to hearts content

But don't derail an honest request for discussion with you lazy responses.

 

[Orangecat]

So, can we add it up and compare it to the past ?

I'd love to know what a promotion of liberty looked like.

That certainly wasn't FDR.

But then again, it depends on what your defintion is.

FDR started Social Security.

I see that as a reduction in liberty.

Others might see it differently.

I don’t believe there was a specific date or era that it refers to. To me, it means changing course away from a one-size-fits-all centralized authority and returning a lot of power back to the individual states. I’d prefer a looser union of states, where people are free to relocate to the one that best fits them. Social Security, even though it has helped millions, is, at its core, a government enforced Ponzi scheme where the current beneficiaries are paid out with the forced contributions of the working class.

 

[HikerGuy83]

I don’t believe there was a specific date or era that it refers to. To me, it means changing course away from a one-size-fits-all centralized authority and returning a lot of power back to the individual states. I’d prefer a looser union of states, where people are free to relocate to the one that best fits them. Social Security, even though it has helped millions, is, at its core, a government enforced Ponzi scheme where the current beneficiaries are paid out with the forced contributions of the working class.

OK

How loose ? I would not mind if people spelled out a "wish" like, our murder rates used to be this....and they grew to that. Part of being great will mean getting it back to this.

But the A stands for "AGAIN". Either that is defined or it is just a sales pitch that appeals to those who somehow feel threatened and long for a different day.

I agree with you on S.S. That is why I am saying.....I would not say America was great in FDR's time as per the amount of liberty that was preserved or fostered. With S.S. he robbed many of their liberty (and continues to do so) today. This is not about debating S.S. When you forefullly take 7% of a salary and another potential 7% (through the employer). You are hitting into the discretionary income.

Good or bad.....it's a reduction of liberty. If that is your metric, FDR fails.

 

[HikerGuy83]

MAGA essentially stands for TWO main issues/priorities

1.) Revert extreme lefty/lib policies, starting from the 70'ies till today - whereby I admittedly partially support this "issue".
However I would and will never support a known human scumbag and pathological fraudster - who has proven that he is incapable to change these issues, nor even interested in doing so - he lives and thrives of the existing discontent and thus is doing his best to keep and further the known discontent.

2.) Impose a US minorities conviction (especially extreme conservative views) onto a US majority - taking lefty/lib proceedings (aka manipulating corrupt and purely self-interested politicians and thus enforcing laws favorable to them) as being legal means - that therefore need to be enforced via fake propaganda and if necessary to call for violence - just as the lefty/Lib have successfully done.

So you are saying it's not about the "AGAIN" ?

 

[HikerGuy83]

The music was incredible, though.

This is the only thing from your post that would be great again.

The rest of your post is an argument that life is better because of advancements.

So MAGA can't apply there.

What is it reaching for ? What does it (America) want to have again that it had and lost ?

Just one thing...in the 60's it was Vietnam....today it is (or was) Iraq.

 

[Orangecat]

OK

How loose ? I would not mind if people spelled out a "wish" like, our murder rates used to be this....and they grew to that. Part of being great will mean getting it back to this.

But the A stands for "AGAIN". Either that is defined or it is just a sales pitch that appeals to those who somehow feel threatened and long for a different day.

I agree with you on S.S. That is why I am saying.....I would not say America was great in FDR's time as per the amount of liberty that was preserved or fostered. With S.S. he robbed many of their liberty (and continues to do so) today. This is not about debating S.S. When you forefullly take 7% of a salary and another potential 7% (through the employer). You are hitting into the discretionary income.

Good or bad.....it's a reduction of liberty. If that is your metric, FDR fails.

I’m no fan of FDR and his Great Society. That being said, I think MAGA is just a campaign slogan that implies we are heading in the wrong direction as country under the current regime. America is at its best when the people are lightly regulated and left to themselves to pursue happiness as they see fit. We should never have a centralized government with enough power to accumulate $34,000,000,000,000 in debt. We are currently adding $100,000 about every 4 seconds. Unsustainable.

 

[HikerGuy83]

I’m no fan of FDR and his Great Society. That being said, I think MAGA is just a campaign slogan that implies we are heading in the wrong direction as country under the current regime. America is at its best when the people are lightly regulated and left to themselves to pursue happiness as they see fit. We should never have a centralized government with enough power to accumulate $34,000,000,000,000 in debt.

So being "Great" might mean reducing or eliminating our debt.

Right now at 34 X 10^12...with 340,000 million people (33 x 10^7) it means every person owns $100,000 of debt.

We have Joe, Donny, Barack, and George to thank for that.

But I appreciate that you've identified something.

Can I say you think we'd be great or greater if we had no debt ?

 

[Orangecat]

Can I say you think we'd be great or greater if we had no debt ?

It would be a large step in the right direction. I believe the real problem we have is the ever increasing size and scope of the federal government. The debt is just a symptom of that cancer, as is draconian taxation and over-regulation of the citizenry. Fed-gov should keep a military force large enough to protect our borders, a court system to resolve conflicts between the individual states, and facilitate a non-fiat national currency. Let the individual states deal with the rest, per the 10th Amendment.

 

[HikerGuy83]

It would be a large step in the right direction. I believe the real problem we have is the ever increasing size and scope of the federal government. The debt is just a symptom of that cancer, as is draconian taxation and over-regulation of the citizenry. Fed-gov should keep a military force large enough to protect our borders, a court system to resolve conflicts between the individual states, and facilitate a non-fiat national currency. Let the individual states deal with the rest, per the 10th Amendment.

While I agree with your post, I am focused on what Makes us great again.

When I talk with hard right (I consider myself pretty far right...but not hard (in this case stupidly ignorant) right), I am going to start handing them some of these specifics.

Good job !

WE HAVE OUR FIRST QUASI SPECIFIC.

 

[BackAgain]

“MAGA” means a few different things.

The of the main meanings is the recognition that we have lost some of our edge.

It can be reclaimed. But we need to strive for it and work for it.

We need to want to make her as great as she can be.

 

[HikerGuy83]

We need to want to make her as great as she can be.

That should be true regardless of where she is today.

But what does making her great mean to you.

We have identified that being great means:

We have no debt (above a certain limit) and that we are alwasy working to reduce it.

 

[BackAgain]

That should be true regardless of where she is today

Nope. If we lost our edge, it’s true. IF we haven’t lost our edge, it wouldn’t be true.

But what does making her great mean to you.

Again, making her better in a variety of ways. Improve our industrial base and productivity. Improve our trade status. Avoid unneeded military engagements but be prepared to the teeth to make sure we win if we do have to fight. Securing justice and fairness for all to the extent we have the ability.

We have identified that being great means:

We have? I’m pretty sure it means some different things to different people.

We have no debt (above a certain limit) and that we are alwasy working to reduce it.

We have massive debt. It’s poisonous. And we haven’t done shit to reduce it. What are you talking about?

 

[HikerGuy83]

We have massive debt. It’s poisonous. And we haven’t done shit to reduce it. What are you talking about?

Read back a bit, but I think we identified that getting rid of that debt would be making America great again.

I know we haven't done poop to reduce it.

Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden ALL increased it. That means we are getting less great.

 

[BackAgain]

Read back a bit, but I think we identified that getting rid of that debt would be making America great again.

I know we haven't done poop to reduce it.

Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden ALL increased it. That means we are getting less great.

Indeed our massive debt and deficits are huge problems. It’s not the metric upon which I’d base the definition of “great,”however.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Indeed our massive debt and deficits as huge problems. It’s not the metric upon which I’d base the definition of “great,”however.

If you know what you wouldn't, do you know what you would ?

 

[BackAgain]

If you know what you wouldn't, do you know what you would ?

I already answered that.

 

[Kruska]

So you are saying it's not about the "AGAIN" ?

No - just the opposite - MAGA's dream and wish for a former Lifestyle, based on taking bank credits, making wars and beholding a radical conservative mindset, aka wishing for a government that would be able to make these radical demands become reality.

MAGA's are IMO a MINORITY just as the Lefty/Libs. (both trying to impose their ideals onto a MAJORITY, via manipulation and violence).

And IMO a nations lifestyle based on endlessly taking credits, pursuing a global hegemonic policy enforced via inciting and making wars onto others, and promoting/conserving a radical conservative mindset - doesn't make a country great at all. It factually destroys a country.

However radical conservatives did undoubtedly "feel great", solely for themselves, (remember "The ugly American"? thus propagating the fantasy or illusion of a former USA having been supposedly great, due to a lifestyle enabled via credits, wars and a dominating radical conservative mindset.

I am dead sure that these German radicals - aka Nazis, felt "great" all the way. And Nazi Germany was undoubtedly "great" from 1933 to 1941.

The USA was indeed a great country from e.g. 1776 to 1960'ies. And immensely even foremost having "profited" from occurrences such as WWI and WWII.
Logically due to never having been devastated internally by a war and thus having an intact industry, economy and society - the USA solely ruled economically and militarily from 1945 onward - resulting in these "Golden Years" of the 50'ies and 60'ies dubbed the American dream and lifestyle.

However due to the USSR (nowadays's China) challenging US hegemony aka it's global domination from the 50'ies onward - and the USA relentlessly perusing "extreme costly" wars from 1950 onward, it's political absolute capitalistic elites draining the existing wealth almost entirely into their personal wallets, whilst providing a "fictional" strong economy via a credit driven policy - the USA became what it is now - a totally debt ridden country, that therefore can't maintain it's military strength to maintain it's economic grip onto the world - and is thus destined to factually getting poorer by the day and therefore can't even ensure a revival.

But don't feel too down - it has happened to ALL Western countries, since they have been running/copying the US political and economic system from the 50'ies onward.

 

[BackAgain]

No - just the opposite - MAGA's dream and wish for a former Lifestyle, based on taking bank credits, making wars and beholding a radical conservative mindset, aka wishing for a government that would be able to make these radical demands become reality.

MAGA's are IMO a MINORITY just as the Lefty/Libs. (both trying to impose their ideals onto a MAJORITY, via manipulation and violence).

And IMO a nations lifestyle based on endlessly taking credits, pursuing a global hegemonic policy enforced via inciting and making wars onto others, and promoting/conserving a radical conservative mindset - doesn't make a country great at all. It factually destroys a country.

However radical conservatives did undoubtedly "feel great", solely for themselves, (remember "The ugly American"? thus propagating the fantasy or illusion of a former USA having been supposedly great, due to a lifestyle enabled via credits, wars and a dominating radical conservative mindset.

I am dead sure that these German radicals - aka Nazis, felt "great" all the way. And Nazi Germany was undoubtedly "great" from 1933 to 1941.

The USA was indeed a great country from e.g. 1776 to 1960'ies. And immensely even foremost having "profited" from occurrences such as WWI and WWII.
Logically due to never having been devastated internally by a war and thus having an intact industry, economy and society - the USA solely ruled economically and militarily from 1945 onward - resulting in these "Golden Years" of the 50'ies and 60'ies dubbed the American dream and lifestyle.

However due to the USSR (nowadays's China) challenging US hegemony aka it's global domination from the 50'ies onward - and the USA relentlessly perusing "extreme costly" wars from 1950 onward, it's political absolute capitalistic elites draining the existing wealth almost entirely into their personal wallets, whilst providing a "fictional" strong economy via a credit driven policy - the USA became what it is now - a totally debt ridden country, that therefore can't maintain it's military strength to maintain it's economic grip onto the world - and is thus destined to factually getting poorer by the day and therefore can't even ensure a revival.

But don't feel too down - it has happened to ALL Western countries, since they have been running/copying the US political and economic system from the 50'ies onward.

Oh good. A polemic to end the thread.

 

[cnm]

America is not great without:

-a truly blind justice system
-equal application of the law
-a secure border
-a truly free and independent press
-making foreign entities fear and respect us

Restore those things and we will be great again. Without them we are
'America the Pretty Good'.

When did they exist? You'll need that model to restore them to...