What caused the eonomic meltdown?

[there4eyeM]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

 

[The Rabbi]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

There was no greed previously?

 

[JWBooth]

<- Once again, stuck on stupid
Truthmatters

Registered User
Member #5217

 

[American Horse]

To answer as simply as possible I have to ask myself: what is the sine-qua-non that lay behind the policies that produced the mortgage bubble&#8217; the unreliable but excessively high appraisals, the management of Fannie Mae, The CRA, etc, etc. and I have to lay that on the democrats. Republicans that behave more like democrats are also liable, but they are RINOs and more democrat clones than republicans.

I think that GWB tried very hard a lot of times to get something through congress to hold Fannie to the same regulations as ordinary financial institutions, but once again dems and their clones on the republican side stayed him.

 

[Toro]

Rabbi -

Actually the lack of regulation dates back to Reagan. While it is a bit of a stretch to blame Reagan for the actual crash, he did remove oversight in a way that helped move some of the chest pieces into the positions which would contribute to the crisis.

There was no lack of regulation in banking under Reagan. You are simply misinformed. Nor is there any regulation that would have prevented the meltdown. You have failed to make your case every time here. Quit while you're behind.

Ah - so the material I linked before was faked?

That is good to know.

Here is more faked information on that deregulation that never happened:

“This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. ... All in all, I think we hit the jackpot.” So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/opinion/01krugman.html

It's true to some extent, but financial deregulation also provided significant benefits to the economy as well. It disintermediated the banking system to a great extent and dispersed credit more widely throughout the economy. Certainly, there are risks when this happens, but the risks of credit creation in the banking system are what you are seeing in Europe today, which has a banking industry 2.5x that of the US, even though the market capitalization of all the publicly-traded banks in the eurozone is about the same as it is of the banks in Canada. The deregulation of the early 80s is more descriptive of the S&L crisis on the 80s/90s rather than the Financial Crisis of 2008. Blaming Reagan's deregulation seems more a liberal equivalent of blaming changes in CRA and other regulator edicts passed in the 70s under Carter as being an explanation for the crisis 30+ years later.

More poignant is the Gramm-Leach-Bailey Act of 1999 (or whatever its called) which exempted derivatives from much of the regulatory oversight. Much of the shadow banking system, which is where much of the mortgage credit wound up, was outside of or was lightly regulated. AIG's financial services unit, which got the company in so much trouble, was domiciled in London because of the light regulation afforded by the FSA. Also, in 2004, the SEC exempted the big five Wall Street investment banks from leverage limits, and the banks went ahead and increased their debt to equity ratios from 12-15:1 to 30-40:1. Three of those banks went under and the other two would have gone bankrupt had they not been bailed out. However, if you criticize Wall Street, you also have to criticize the GSEs, as they were even more levered, as high as 50:1 during reporting periods, and 100:1 inter-quarter. The GSE's primary enabler were the Democrats and liberals.

 

[there4eyeM]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

There was no greed previously?

There is no virus before an infection?

 

[The Rabbi]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

There was no greed previously?

There is no virus before an infection?

There is no appetizer before the entree?

Are you trying to make a point here or run away from the debate? Business people are always greedy, depending on your definition of greed. All people are. That's why they sell lottery tickets. But it doesnt matter how greedy someone is. He cannot crash a system on his own. He cannot be greedy and get what he wants without someone else giving it to him.

 

[Unkotare]

You absolve bankers as being like anyone else, then point out they disregarded the obvious, that real estate does not and CAN not go up indefinitely. .

Is Barney Frank a banker?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

Greed drives everything humans do, it is not the problem.

 

[GWV5903]

It's a combination of things.

A huge combination

But I'd say the main contributor was clinton forcing banks to loan money to people they would Never consider before so they could buy houses, or allow people into bigger homes than they could afford.

That forced banks to shuffle money around in phoney ways.

Anyone that says it's just Bushs fault is lying and/or running for President.

What a complete load of racist bullshit.

Clinton required banks to make loans to QUALIFIED minorities that banks would never consider not because thy were not qualified, but because they were minorities. To a racist no minority is ever qualified for a loan. Making loans to the unqualified did not happen until Bush's Dec 2003 ADDI. Starting in 2004 everything went to hell.

Banks shuffled money around in phony ways out of pure greed and nothing else.

Clinton created FHA DPA, buy any home that qualified for a FHA loan for as little as $500, many for even less...

Closed a home Friday with USDA for $150K and guess what, it cost the buyer less than a $100 to get in...

Guess what, the USDA funded this, US Taxpayers funded it, why do you let someone buy $150K asset and only risk $100...

And yes the buyer was a minority, who cares...

Little known fact in all of this, the Equal Housing Act prevented any seller or realtor from advising against any of these loans...

Do you think the Executive Branch or our Legislators didn't know this???

 

[regent]

There are so many possible variables that enter economics that it is difficult to make universal causes and cures. Galbreath gave five reasons for the Great Depression, but if those five causes occurred at a different time or in different amounts would it cause another Great Depression?
Whatever the causes there is a cycle. Samual Jones Loyd's description of the cycle: quiet, improvement, confidence, prosperity, excitement, overtrading, convulsion, pressure, stagnation, distress, quiet, might be best or in one word greed.
Seems we have to go through this cycle every so often, but few learn if there is profit to be made. The major difference since our first cycle in the 1820's, is we now blame the government, and government is expected to cure the problem.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

There are so many possible variables that enter economics that it is difficult to make universal causes and cures. Galbreath gave five reasons for the Great Depression, but if those five causes occurred at a different time or in different amounts would it cause another Great Depression?
Whatever the causes there is a cycle. Samual Jones Loyd's description of the cycle: quiet, improvement, confidence, prosperity, excitement, overtrading, convulsion, pressure, stagnation, distress, quiet, might be best or in one word greed.
Seems we have to go through this cycle every so often, but few learn if there is profit to be made. The major difference since our first cycle in the 1820's, is we now blame the government, and government is expected to cure the problem.

There are ripple effects. In the cases of the past, different things were in play, but all of them have one root cause.

In the case of 2007-08, there was also a root cause. Many other factors then played on that root cause through the ripple. The root cause in the latest meltdown is the federal reserves interest rate manipulation. That is the very root of the cause. It ripples out from there in many ways.

 

[there4eyeM]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

Greed drives everything humans do, it is not the problem.

Not everything, but that would only emphasize my point all the more.

 

[there4eyeM]

You absolve bankers as being like anyone else, then point out they disregarded the obvious, that real estate does not and CAN not go up indefinitely. .

Is Barney Frank a banker?

Though this is probably a general question, since it doesn't have any relevance to the context of my post, let me say that if someone is waiting for me to defend the Democratic party, the person can expect a very long wait.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Economics is not a question of greed. It is a question of human action. Every single solitary person out there when it comes to standard of living is greedy. It's about the vehicles in the lot available to drive these motives that count. When a few people are making the vehicles to their liking, these are the outcomes we get. A lot of walkers run over.

It's a lot more complicated than that. A lot more.

 

[there4eyeM]

Economics is not a question of greed. It is a question of human action. Every single solitary person out there when it comes to standard of living is greedy. It's about the vehicles in the lot available to drive these motives that count. When a few people are making the vehicles to their liking, these are the outcomes we get. A lot of walkers run over.

It's a lot more complicated than that. A lot more.

Economics is not something that exists out there, in space. It is a purely human creation in every sense. We drive it, not the the other way round. If it is driven by greed of the highest degree, as in the recent case, we have the result we see.

Responsibility must be taken.

 

[The Rabbi]

Economics is not a question of greed. It is a question of human action. Every single solitary person out there when it comes to standard of living is greedy. It's about the vehicles in the lot available to drive these motives that count. When a few people are making the vehicles to their liking, these are the outcomes we get. A lot of walkers run over.

It's a lot more complicated than that. A lot more.

Economics is not something that exists out there, in space. It is a purely human creation in every sense. We drive it, not the the other way round. If it is driven by greed of the highest degree, as in the recent case, we have the result we see.

Responsibility must be taken.

Economics stats from the presumption that human needs are unlimited. If you want to call that "greed" go right ahead.
But using an emotive word like greed doesnt garner you much credibility here.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Economics is not a question of greed. It is a question of human action. Every single solitary person out there when it comes to standard of living is greedy. It's about the vehicles in the lot available to drive these motives that count. When a few people are making the vehicles to their liking, these are the outcomes we get. A lot of walkers run over.

It's a lot more complicated than that. A lot more.

Economics is not something that exists out there, in space. It is a purely human creation in every sense. We drive it, not the the other way round. If it is driven by greed of the highest degree, as in the recent case, we have the result we see.

Responsibility must be taken.

It is human action. As if I didn't say that aleady.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The one cause of the economic collapse, that has become socialized, is Greed. That is what the world is paying for.

Greed drives everything humans do, it is not the problem.

Not everything, but that would only emphasize my point all the more.

Prove it.

 

[Saigon]

How quickly they forget.

Some 30% of respondents have voted that Democrats were the major reason for the economic crash.

Is that stupidity or dishonesty?